To Audio Experts - XLR inputs for Our DSLRs/Mirrorless cameras

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Lately, when I was shopping at RADIOSHACK for some audio stuff an SDD for my Blade NInja, and found a very interesting product, an XLR to 3.5mm adapter. 

I thought there was no way to use XLR microphones on my 3.5mm input cameras and recorders. 

it's a small solid Jack, not a cable. On the female end an XLR input and on the female end a 3.5mm output. 

i bought 4 for testing, I put one on each DSLR (now each has an XLR input that works!) and two on my Zoom H1s. 

It's a very very solid metal piece of equipment, not a device, gold plated pins and I can carry the camera by the cable. So it's psychologically reassuring. 

Mt question is, am i losing sound quality during this conversion and if so how much am I losing ? 

I am using Rode NTG 3 mics and want to know if i am having for example 2 exactly identical sound recorders (like a zoom h1 and a Zoom h4n) one with a 3.5mm input (h1) and one with an XLR input, and connected an NTG to both (using the small 2-3cm adapter on the H1), would they sound identical (given that theoritically everything else is constant and the converter is the only variable) 

From my first shoots, the NTG connected to the cameras or h1s sound great, very solid. Way way better than cheap Rode 3.5mm microphones. 

Basically, do XLR to Mini Jack adapters lose sound qualiry and if so how much? And if so, what's the best and cheapest XLR sound recorder from Zoom/Tascam? so that I'd avoid the loss if it exists.

Anyone here using XLR mics with an adapter? My guess is that there's a huge loss in quality because if there wasn't nobody would have complained about cameras not having XLR inputs, they woud just add that small 30$ jack to the 3.5mm input!

[Gregormannschaft]

2 hours ago, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

Lately, when I was shopping at RADIOSHACK for some audio stuff an SDD for my Blade NInja, and found a very interesting product, an XLR to 3.5mm adapter. 

I thought there was no way to use XLR microphones on my 3.5mm input cameras and recorders. 

it's a small solid Jack, not a cable. On the female end an XLR input and on the female end a 3.5mm output. 

i bought 4 for testing, I put one on each DSLR (now each has an XLR input that works!) and two on my Zoom H1s. 

It's a very very solid metal piece of equipment, not a device, gold plated pins and I can carry the camera by the cable. So it's psychologically reassuring. 

Mt question is, am i losing sound quality during this conversion and if so how much am I losing ? 

I am using Rode NTG 3 mics and want to know if i am having for example 2 exactly identical sound recorders (like a zoom h1 and a Zoom h4n) one with a 3.5mm input (h1) and one with an XLR input, and connected an NTG to both (using the small 2-3cm adapter on the H1), would they sound identical (given that theoritically everything else is constant and the converter is the only variable) 

From my first shoots, the NTG connected to the cameras or h1s sound great, very solid. Way way better than cheap Rode 3.5mm microphones. 

Basically, do XLR to Mini Jack adapters lose sound qualiry and if so how much? And if so, what's the best and cheapest XLR sound recorder from Zoom/Tascam? so that I'd avoid the loss if it exists.

Anyone here using XLR mics with an adapter? My guess is that there's a huge loss in quality because if there wasn't nobody would have complained about cameras not having XLR inputs, they woud just add that small 30$ jack to the 3.5mm input!

Do you have a pic of this adapter? I think I'm using a similar solution, here's the guy: http://www.thomann.de/de/sennheiser_ka_600.htm?ref=search_rslt_xlr+3.5_312811_19

I did a little reading up and from what I could tell there's no loss of quality using a 3.5mm adapter, XLR is purely for the stability of the connection. Generally if something had a XLR input then the quality would be better because you're most likely getting dedicated audio focused amps. 

I plug my Sennheiser MK 600 directly into my Sony A7SII with this method and have found the Sony A7SII pre-amps to be REALLY good and I get great output. The only problem is that the 3.5mm jack can be nudged and moved and that creates static. I have to be careful with that, but that's the only problem I've encountered. 

[mkabi]

I can't say that I'm an expert, but I do have a slight background in it...

The simple answer is there is no loss in quality...

From what I've learned, XLRs give you more options in terms of mics (and their pick-up patterns).

BUT, understand that just cause you have more mics to choose from with XLRs, does not mean you should be... some need phantom power, and I do not think the DSLR outputs that through their jacks, in fact... does any of the zoom line recorders have phantom power? Because, you need power or extra juice to power condenser mics and that might drain the battery.

Otherwise, 3.5mm or XLR, both have the same sound feed.

 

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

that's reassuring, thanks!

[Ty Harper]

I'm no expert either but I'd think the sound quality of the two Zooms would be the same. But if I'm understanding the other part of your question, and your mic is going directly from that xlr connection into your camera, then you're depending solely on the sound quality of your camera's amps, which usually isn't the best quality compared to if the mic was going into a dedicated preamp and then into your dslr/mirrorless (unless  dslr/mirrorless cameras have much better amps now?? I'm still on a 5D III/ML). The point of buying a dedicated preamp is to bypass the camera's preamps right? So for me I use a Marantz PMD661 with the Oade mod which gives me a great preamp + a second HQ recording. But somehow I feel like you already know this and I'm not really understanding your question. Either way interesting find!

[animan]

Basically you're losing the quality and advantages of the balanced cable (the main reason to use XLR) when you connect the adapter. (You can search balanced vs unbalanced cable for plenty of info)

Other than that you should have the same results as using any other mic or cable with a minijack on the end depending on how well made/shielded the adapter is.

The weak points in the signal would probably be the camera or zoom preamps more than the type of cable/adapter

[M Carter]

I'm amazed that not one response here has included the word "impedance". Generally, (in the realm of microphones) XLR gear is expecting a low impedance signal; and mini-plug gear is expecting a high impedance signal. I'd at least get a barrel-style XLR to 1/4 transformer adapter, and then add a 1/4 to 1/8 (though these days someone may make an XLR to 1/8?). The other issue is that those three pins each do something. Most camera-in jacks are TR (tip ring) for a mono input, or TRS (tip ring sleeve, three conducters) for a stereo input. I believe most DSLRs have a stereo mic input, but could be mistaken? So you have the potential for grounding problems as well.

The design of the XLR connector is "purely for the stability of the connection" - it's pretty robust - but most XLR mics - and any you'd really want to use on-set - will be XLRs that are using the three pins to carry the standard low impedance signal. You can do low impedance with any three-conducter setup (1/4 TRS is popular) but mics for on-set audio (ecluding lavs) will use the full-sized XLR, will require phantom power, and will be low-z.

Speaking of phantom power - some mics have an internal battery, but if not, you're limited to using dynamic mics which generally aren't used for film sound for a host of reasons.

There's another current thread here dealing with this exact subject. Unless this is just a hobby for the OP, I'd say at the very least get a decent preamp that converts the XLR input to a preamped 1/8 output. And for probably the same money, you could get, say, a Tascam DR60D ($169 if you shop around, and showing up used all over), which has phantom power, mic power, meters, headphone and camera out level controls, minus 6DB safety tracks, low cut, a limiter, slate tone, etc. Far as I know it's about the best budget solution to beginner's audio needs, and the adjustable camera out allows you to stage your gain and at least try to get a clean and strong signal to the camera if you don't want to synch in post (and still have a nice clean recorder track if the camera audio isn't optimal). I imagine it would really up the quality of something like a blade as well.

I know some of the monitor/recorders have audio ins and meters, but you're missing a lot of really necessary features - features that can really save your butt - and you're not talking investing thousand of bucks to get those features. If you're planning to charge money, I'd really recommend a pro solution, even something entry level like the DR - it will outlive your next ten cameras.