Canon 1DX-II vs. 1DC - Which one would you buy?

[Luke Mason]

14 hours ago, Liam said:

That's pretty expected.. That's what you can get from the shadows from jpegs off any canon dslr. Is c-log really not much better?

C-log has better highlight roll-off and a different, more cinematic colour science (deeper blue/cyan), plus you need C-log for integration in professional colour managed workflow, such as ACES.

[DBounce]

2 hours ago, Luke Mason said:

C-log has better highlight roll-off and a different, more cinematic colour science (deeper blue/cyan), plus you need C-log for integration in professional colour managed workflow, such as ACES.

I think the blues coming out of the 1DX Mkii are plenty good. Cinematic? Motion maybe... movement yes... lighting certainly... Color? I'm calling BS on that. And before you attempt to explain... what about Black and White movies? Not "Cinematic"? Really?

[User]

Look out Luke, DBounce is calling BS. You better beat it!

[Kino]

19 hours ago, Liam said:

That's pretty expected.. That's what you can get from the shadows from jpegs off any canon dslr. Is c-log really not much better?

It's much easier to get a smooth highlight roll-off from C-Log and the color gamut has a broader range to work with in post. This was already noted by a Technicolor colorist when grading Hurlbut's 1DC footage a few years ago.

All the same, the above test shows that the 1DX II is not lacking in overall dynamic range. It has tremendous capability and incredibly clean shadows. I think if you already have a 1DC, you can look past the 1DX II. But if you are new to the 1D series cameras, the 1DX II offers good value among Canon's 4K options.

[Matthew19]

Clog having an enhanced color space is a myth. You can look at the data and both color spaces are nearly identical, as in if they were any closer together it'd be the same colorspace. If technicolor said something it was either because of the motion.jpeg format, which does seem to be richer than h264, or it was the act that it was a paid pump piece funded by Canon.

8bit Clog has about 2 stops more DR at the expense of less shades per stop. Thats it.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

2 hours ago, Matthew19 said:

Clog having an enhanced color space is a myth. You can look at the data and both color spaces are nearly identical, as in if they were any closer together it'd be the same colorspace. If technicolor said something it was either because of the motion.jpeg format, which does seem to be richer than h264, or it was the act that it was a paid pump piece funded by Canon.

8bit Clog has about 2 stops more DR at the expense of less shades per stop. Thats it.

 

C-Log has a different, better colour science, or let's say, a different picture style than all the other DSLR standard ones. it's identical to C100/C300 colour science/rendering. 

[Kino]

Hurlbut on shooting in C-Log on the 1DC:

"Canon Log was one of the most exciting functions of the 1DC. At 400 ISO, it will give you a dynamic range of 12.5 stops. The log looks unbelievable. You can expose it easily, not like Cinestyle or other flat files. No h.264 codec here. This records to motion jpegs, and the WOW factor goes up when you see how the slight compression to the cards makes it look just like film. This compression, that I have embraced and love, softens the highlights, skin and rounds the 4K capture. The contrast ratio feels more like a hill than a cliff. Skin tones are absolutely beautiful. Vitality abounds with the Canon’s sensor and color space. I could care less that it is 8 BIT color. I am getting it very close, and Dave Cole, our colorist at Technicolor, had a huge range to deal with. Canon’s 8 BIT feels like 12 BIT with its color space and reproduction."

http://www.thehurlblog.com/film-education-online-the-next-gen-in-digital-film-capture-canons-4k-1dc/

Hurlbut also got only 9 stops shooting without C-log on the 1DC, so a difference of over 3 stops.

Of course, you could argue that MJPEG plays a significant part in the 1DC's overall image quality, but it is the combination of MJPEG (4:2:2) and C-Log that facilitates the enhanced color grading possibilities in post. Moreover, the color space doesn't have to be any different for you to notice the greater flexibility in color grading that log provides over neutral.

[Matthew19]

6 hours ago, Kino said:

the color gamut has a broader range to work with in post.

It's not a wider gamut, if you're referring to color gamut in it's true sense (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamut) Thats my only point. 

 

[DBounce]

To my eyes the colors coming from the 1DX Mkii look great.  I can push the footage more than enough when grading and it holds together.  I honestly do not see any reason to give up 60p and DPAF plus spend an extra $2K, for a imagined gain in color gamut, when the 1DX Mkii does not lack in this department. But that said each person has to decide what's important to them. I do know the difference of DPAF and 60p are readily apparent and can help tell the story. Tools that effect the way a story is portrayed trump slight differences in color science. And once that footage is compressed and put on YouTube, Vimeo, Netflix or played back on 99% of TVs any advantage of increased color gamut (if any) will be all but lost. However, 60p will still render as slow-motion, or give less motion blur... and DPAF will still keep your shots in focus. The reduced rolling shutter will also continue to be of value. These seem like more compelling features to me, but then again I'm more concerned with enhancing my ability to tell my story than a spec sheet.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

5 hours ago, DBounce said:

To my eyes the colors coming from the 1DX Mkii look great.  I can push the footage more than enough when grading and it holds together.  I honestly do not see any reason to give up 60p and DPAF plus spend an extra $2K, for a imagined gain in color gamut, when the 1DX Mkii does not lack in this department. But that said each person has to decide what's important to them. I do know the difference of DPAF and 60p are readily apparent and can help tell the story. Tools that effect the way a story is portrayed trump slight differences in color science. And once that footage is compressed and put on YouTube, Vimeo, Netflix or played back on 99% of TVs any advantage of increased color gamut (if any) will be all but lost. However, 60p will still render as slow-motion, or give less motion blur... and DPAF will still keep your shots in focus. The reduced rolling shutter will also continue to be of value. These seem like more compelling features to me, but then again I'm more concerned with enhancing my ability to tell my story than a spec sheet.

No need to get personal by implying that others aren't. 

I think if you're buying new, the 1DX2 makes way, way more sense. 4k/60p, 1080/120p, dpaf, etc. But if you're buying used, the ability to pick up a 1DC for ~$3500 skews the value proposition strongly in that direction.

[Sinjun Balabanoff]

On 5/29/2016 at 4:18 PM, Rinad Amir said:

We are not talking about Alexa here are we? stick to the thread am not putting him down or anything 

i just dont get the point buying OLD ass tech when NEW is just around the corner 

Update: you can order on Amazon alredy 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01B6UR3ZM/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1464566893&sr=8-1&pi=SX200_QL40&keywords=1dx+mark+ii&dpPl=1&dpID=41NlF1KSKKL&ref=plSrch

Age means absolutely nothing. Chris Nolan still shoots on film. 

A good camera is a good camera. The 1DC is amazing and with prices on it falling in recent months there's no reason why DSLR filmmakers shouldn't be jumping on it, spending $2500 more on a 1DXm2 makes no sense if it's video features are either identical or worse across the board. 

[DBounce]

4 hours ago, Sinjun Balabanoff said:

Age means absolutely nothing. Chris Nolan still shoots on film. 

A good camera is a good camera. The 1DC is amazing and with prices on it falling in recent months there's no reason why DSLR filmmakers shouldn't be jumping on it, spending $2500 more on a 1DXm2 makes no sense if it's video features are either identical or worse across the board. 

So focus is worst? SlowMo is worst? Rolling shutter worst? Across the board? Really? Or did you board run into a log... a c-log that is?

[Rinad Amir]

5 hours ago, Sinjun Balabanoff said:

Age means absolutely nothing. Chris Nolan still shoots on film. 

A good camera is a good camera. The 1DC is amazing and with prices on it falling in recent months there's no reason why DSLR filmmakers shouldn't be jumping on it, spending $2500 more on a 1DXm2 makes no sense if it's video features are either identical or worse across the board. 

Identical? 

Better photos

slomo

autofocus

batterylife 

rolling shutter

4k60p

[Leica50mm]

From Philip Bloom's Facebook page : 

 

Philip Bloom

7 mins · 

Wait? What? C-LOG on the Canon 1DX MK II? You clever bastard James Miller! If you have the skills you can create the profile! The man behind Deltus.com knocked this up in a few hours this afternoon. Wonderful!

This will work on all Canon DSLRS...I don't know what he plans to do with it but watch this space...

[jcs]

1 hour ago, Leica50mm said:

From Philip Bloom's Facebook page : 

 

Philip Bloom

7 mins · 

Wait? What? C-LOG on the Canon 1DX MK II? You clever bastard James Miller! If you have the skills you can create the profile! The man behind Deltus.com knocked this up in a few hours this afternoon. Wonderful!

This will work on all Canon DSLRS...I don't know what he plans to do with it but watch this space...

Anyone can do this, I did it in May: 

In practice I stopped using it as I preferred the skintones from the stock profiles and less work in post. Still useful for perhaps certain high DR conditions.