An adventure into the Panasonic GX85/80 begins - and a look at the Leica Nocticron for Micro Four Thirds

[amateurmike]

Does anyone know if there is a way to record the video to an SSD directly?  Is there an SD adapter to record to SSD?

[Herb]

On May 26, 2016 at 5:21 PM, Tiago Rosa-Rosso said:

I spoke via chat with a panasonic sales agent and she told me the gx85 outputs 4k 10bit 422 to an external recorder. Wow!

So, can we get a confirmation that the HDMI out is 10 bit? Andrew?

[Tiago Rosa-Rosso]

6 minutes ago, Herb said:

So, can we get a confirmation that the HDMI out is 10 bit? Andrew?

http://shop.panasonic.com/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/lumix-interchangeable-lens-ilc-cameras/DMC-GX85K.html

Here they have a live chat. Thats where I got this information but feel free to check for yourself.

[sanveer]

Everyone always says that the Panasonics underexpose, and that Panasonic should address that.

 

Shane Hurlbut tested the GH4 for VLog and it is his belief that for maximum latitude, it must be underexposed by 1/2 stop (though he recorded externally and he must have measured the exposure almost clinically). That's probably what the camera does by default, and the 1/2 or so stop of under-exposure helps in post work.

If the 10-bit 4-2-2 is true, then Wow !!!

[Herb]

Tiago Rosa-Rosso,

I did not mean to suggest you were in error / mistaken. It wouldn't surprise me if Panasonic had published / was quoting incorrect specs. 10 bit would be very cool.

[Herb]

Uh... I just chatted with Panasonic sales. Jessica, told me that the GX85 output 10 bit 4:4:4 from the HDMI !!!!!! That can't be. See what I meant by getting the RIGHT information

[Herb]

Uh guys, I'm getting the same 4:4:4 info from another person in sales. They say it's not on the site, but will be. Can't link to it.

[Herb]

Called them. Can't get a clear answer. They'll call back in 24-48 hours.

[mechanicalEYE]

I tried my hand with live chat, and an live chat agent by the name of Jodene C. took some time to look into it, and returned after about 8 minutes to say it is 4:2:2.  She closed the chat before I could get the screenshot but you can still see it in the attachment.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

7 hours ago, RWR said:

Do others concur that Panny has inherent judder during pans compared to others? When I see it on the web I assume encoding/connection etc.

Regarding the clips above, the highlight handling in the windows seems good.

I was worried about the jitter, thinking that it could be something GX85 related - but then I saw some GH4 past footage from Andrew and saw the same jitter in pans  / people movement:
 

 

[Michael Coffee]

On 5/28/2016 at 9:32 PM, TheSicilianGuy said:

 I think any serious videographer would pull focus manually anyway.

This just isn't true - why would you if a reliable, predictable autofocus exists? If it is good enough for this guy.. ! 

 

[AnthonyWithNoH]

@Andrew Reid any idea on when the next post will be? Very curious to see what you think. I have my GX85 on the way, won't have my hands on it till Friday. Also, do you know if the BMCC Nikon speedbooster works fine with it besides not communicating focal lengths and other electronic things? Just want to not scratch my sensor or speedbooster. I have an EF XL and a Nikon to BMCC along with a GH4 and would like to run them simultaneously while not having to shell out for another speedbooster until I find it reasonable to.

[fuzzynormal]

2 hours ago, Michael Coffee said:

why would you if a reliable, predictable autofocus exists?

Because organic flaws such as imperfect focus pulls have character.  Seriously.  At least in my head.

I don't know if you've ever composed and arranged music on a computer, but if you rely on precision and algorithms to lock in rhythm, it ends up sounding rather soul less.  Imaging can be similar: too clean and clinical.

But, I understand CAF is a useful tool.  it has been refined for dedicated motion picture cameras.  I've seen it in action and was impressed, but I personally wouldn't use it for my stuff.

Also, expecting smooth motion-picture-efficient CAF in a $700 photography camera (this year) is overly optimistic.

 

[John Matthews]

I just sent an email to Panasonic France to confirm HDMI output. They need to be clear on this point. Sounds too good to be true if 10bit 4:4:4... or even 10bit 4:2:2. That would be huge for some people on this forum. Personally, I'm not sure to use it in that way, but just knowing I could is really cool.

[Astro]

5 hours ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

I was worried about the jitter, thinking that it could be something GX85 related - but then I saw some GH4 past footage from Andrew and saw the same jitter in pans  / people movement:
 

Yep I have used the Gh4 for a long time...while everyone else was obsessing about noise in the shadows, dynamic range, low light etc..
I was obsessing about the jitter or strobe when you panned the camera, it kind of drove me nuts for a while...it was my single biggest beef with the GH4...so I did countless tests.
Heres what I found, its at its worst in 4K at 24P or 25P (especially in high contrast scenes) ...medium pans are the worst, slow pans can be acceptable, fast pans also can be OK.
Its not there in the higher frame rates at 1080P 30/ 50/ 60
It improves greatly at 30 frames PS in 4K, it improves a lot!! (thats your best bet in 4K I found) Low contrast scenes are also much better too
Turning on or off OIS in a lens makes little or no difference from what I saw....
It seems to be less on a 4K screen at 60hz than a 1080P or 1440 screen at the same 60hz refresh rate, I cant say that's totally the case tho..I have only done a few tests.
I have seen it other cameras without GS, especially in 4K.
The GX85 has it just as bad as the GH4 in this area, but the image stabilization is a huge plus, for that reason I am thinking of getting one.
I havre gotten used to it now, and I know what and what not to do...when in doubt, if you are just uploading to the web, use 29.97 (30P)

Cheers

Hope this helps

[hellboy80]

Nice camera, but I saw some footage on YouTube and I dont like it. It looks too videoish to me, but this is no suprise for me, because I can say that about all Panasonic mirrorless cameras. I just dont like their image, its too oversharpen and too contrasty. The videos I saw look like home movies (I guess that great cameramen can get more filmic images from these cameras). The images from Canon DSLRS looks more filmic, but with Canon there is the problem that their features sucks. So the best cameras for me are probably from Sony, because you get the best from the both worlds.

[John Matthews]

7 minutes ago, hellboy80 said:

Nice camera, but I saw some footage on YouTube and I dont like it. It looks too videoish to me, but this is no suprise for me, because I can say that about all Panasonic mirrorless cameras. I just dont like their image, its too oversharpen and too contrasty. The videos I saw look like home movies (I guess that great cameramen can get more filmic images from these cameras). However, the images from Canon DSLRS looks more filmic, but with Canon there is the problem that their features sucks, so the best cameras for me are probably from Sony, because you get the best from the both worlds.

You can shoot bad footage on the best camera in the world. Conversely, you can shoot great footage on a "bad" camera. The GX80 shoots stabilized, 4k footage in a very small form-factor... I'm liking mine. As for "filmic," it's subjective. If you like the look of a camera, use that!  

[hellboy80]

20 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

You can shoot bad footage on the best camera in the world. Conversely, you can shoot great footage on a "bad" camera. The GX80 shoots stabilized, 4k footage in a very small form-factor... I'm liking mine. As for "filmic," it's subjective. If you like the look of a camera, use that!  

You are absolutely right. As for filmic look. I dont know how to say it (english is not my first language), but the filmic image is sharp, but somehow soft at the same time. The softness can hide all distracting imperfections which videoish image will reveal. Videoish look is super sharp which is too distracting for me (it draws away the attention from the story), but I dont mid it in home videos and documentaries. That is just my subjective opinion.

[sanveer]

7 hours ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

I was worried about the jitter, thinking that it could be something GX85 related - but then I saw some GH4 past footage from Andrew and saw the same jitter in pans  / people movement:
 

 

I am not sure I noticed any jitters on this one. There were a few shots handheld (including some handheld panning). Are you referring to those ones? Also I am curious, have you tried comparing Panasonic's jitters with those of other cameras in exactly the same conditions? I am genuinely interested, because I feel that some of the GX85 videos have jitter, but those exist because Auto-focus has been left on AFC mode. 

 

[John Matthews]

20 minutes ago, sanveer said:

I am not sure I noticed any jitters on this one. There were a few shots handheld (including some handheld panning). Are you referring to those ones? Also I am curious, have you tried comparing Panasonic's jitters with those of other cameras in exactly the same conditions? I am genuinely interested, because I feel that some of the GX85 videos have jitter, but those exist because Auto-focus has been left on AFC mode. 

I noticed very high shutter speeds (fountain scene- water was too crisp for 1/50 or 1/60)... I think that would make it look unnatural. Globally, it was some nice footage. On the GX80, people have remarked about some stuttering during a pan, but I haven't seen it that much in my own footage. Neither did I see the correlation between focus modes and jitter. I saw it more with the mixing of IBIS/DUAL IS and Digital stabilization.