An adventure into the Panasonic GX85/80 begins - and a look at the Leica Nocticron for Micro Four Thirds

[fuzzynormal]

3 hours ago, mercer said:

With the GX85, doesn't the focus peaking work with the evf? Shouldn't that make focusing easier on your eyes?

Not really. It allows me to find focus of the actual shot, but because the evf image is so soft (and slightly distorted as well), my eye is always straining to comfortably focus on the image. 

This is is not an issue with my Olympus EM5II  

Hard to empathize, I know, unless you've got old person eyesight.  Which, btw, seems to happen within a few months.  Beginning of the year you have good vision, by the end of the year you need bi-focals.  

[mercer]

5 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Not really. It allows me to find focus of the actual shot, but because the evf image is so soft (and slightly distorted as well), my eye is always straining to comfortably focus on the image. 

This is is not an issue with my Olympus EM5II  

Hard to empathize, I know, unless you've got old person eyesight.  Which, btw, seems to happen within a few months.  Beginning of the year you have good vision, by the end of the year you need bi-focals.  

I'm in my early 40s, so I am probably not too far behind you. That's a shame about the evf... The one on the G7 is brilliant. The G8 should work out all of the kinks with the GX85 I suppose... It seems like we're always a generation away...

[fuzzynormal]

45 minutes ago, Buckster said:

 if you use external recorder, how do you work out which audio is to which video when you get back from a day or week or shooting ? 

I clock sync all devices before recording.  This allows me to manually reference basic shots and audio relativity.

Then, I build sequences of shots/audio to scenarios I need sync'ed. 

After that, plural eyes to connect tracks. If some "miss" I can usually line them up by eye.

...and when I'm 30 feet from my subject at a loud crowded venue, the internal mic is not recording useful audio of my subject's voice.  So it requires doing it manually.

It's all a very annoying step of production that would be pleasant to avoid. 

[Buckster]

I'd not swap the EVF on the G6 for the in-built IS on the GX80 though ....

[fuzzynormal]

3 hours ago, John Matthews said:

I suppose with 100s of files this might become cumbersome. 

Yes. And typical with doc footage. 

[Michael Coffee]

8 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

Not really. It allows me to find focus of the actual shot, but because the evf image is so soft (and slightly distorted as well), my eye is always straining to comfortably focus on the image. 

This is is not an issue with my Olympus EM5II  

Hard to empathize, I know, unless you've got old person eyesight.  Which, btw, seems to happen within a few months.  Beginning of the year you have good vision, by the end of the year you need bi-focals.  

Hey Fuzzy - have you tried something like this? http://exercises4eyes.com/ - really helped my vision a few years ago - I don't need glasses anymore!

[Readbook]

Can someone make test, which shows the effect on the picture of the lack of a low pas filter:

-shot in 4k on gx80 and g7 (or gh4 or gx8) same frames with manual quality lens with a no optic adapter. The idea is that in the picture should be better on gx80 .

-shot in 4k on gx80 with metabons speedbooster and another speedbooster (kipon or Chinese). The idea is that the difference between these boosters should be less since metabons designed for cameras with a filter.

 

 

[sgreszcz]

10 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

Not really. It allows me to find focus of the actual shot, but because the evf image is so soft (and slightly distorted as well), my eye is always straining to comfortably focus on the image. 

This is is not an issue with my Olympus EM5II

I've never used a gh4, but found that the EVF on my gx7, g7, lx00 and now gx80 have been quite weak, even compared to my original em5 and much less clear than the Olympus VF4 or viewfinder in the em5ii.

This makes it especially hard to keep things in focus during recording with the gx80 since punch in magnification doesn't work.

What I find improves things is using the monochrome EVF mode (I have it set to a function button) and use a bright peaking colour like yellow. The only risk here is if you have your white balance set wrong, you won't notice it.

If I'm shooting a live event where I know I'm going to edit pieces anyway I just use AF lenses and cheat with the AF-s to make sure I'm ok with focus.

I really do like the gx80 colour and picture quality though, and the stabilisation takes away the need for a tripod especially with the dual-is.

[John Matthews]

25 minutes ago, sgreszcz said:

What I find improves things is using the monochrome EVF mode (I have it set to a function button) and use a bright peaking colour like yellow. The only risk here is if you have your white balance set wrong, you won't notice it.

I second that. Shooting in monochrome with WB set to sunny in Custom 1 setting, WB set to tungsten in Custom 2 setting. It works well for my needs. I also have peaking set to low and red. I can't always see with shallow depth of field, but of the time I can. I'll say it again- this camera (form-factor, etc.) was made to be used primarily with its LCD, not the EVF. The latter is only a back-up when you can't use the other. This doesn't really happen to me very often... only in bright sunlight when trying to manual focus- that's it. The EM5II is more of what @fuzzynormal is looking for if he wants to use it as a EVF camera... just no 4k... If I were he, I'd get the G7 or wait for better IBIS from some other device.

[fuzzynormal]

9 hours ago, John Matthews said:

If I were he, I'd get the G7 or wait for better IBIS from some other device.

I like the GX85.  I'd recommend it with the reservations I mentioned.  Depends on what you wanna do.  ...And when you want to do it.  I'm shooting right now for a project --so I can't really wait for "what's next" knowhtimean?  And, really, that IQ of the GX85 is impressive.

Yes, if Oly release a 5-axis camera with acceptable 4K, I'll be very interested -- as I find a good hi-res EVF a very helpful filming tool.  Also, the reverse swivel LCD shouldn't be ignored. Combine that with a super comfortable battery grip that adds in-camera audio recording with monitoring, it's a productive little hybrid.  It's my favorite stills camera that shoots video, without questions.  The big issue is that the IQ of what Oly delivers comes up short.  It's not a bad image, and it offers nice colors too -- it's just that Panasonic offers an image that is so much better I really feel I HAVE to use it.

[Buckster]

21 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

I clock sync all devices before recording.  This allows me to manually reference basic shots and audio relativity.

Then, I build sequences of shots/audio to scenarios I need sync'ed. 

After that, plural eyes to connect tracks. If some "miss" I can usually line them up by eye.

...and when I'm 30 feet from my subject at a loud crowded venue, the internal mic is not recording useful audio of my subject's voice.  So it requires doing it manually.

It's all a very annoying step of production that would be pleasant to avoid. 

fuzzynormal- thanks very much for taking the time to reply - useful tips/workflow

Tested the GX80 photo wise out today - and its impressive, I seem to be getting much sharper shots out of my 14-140 II - not sure if it is the extra steps of IS (probably), lack of shutter shock, or better sensor, but overall the IQ is noticeably better

the images seem nicer colour depth and DR wise than my G6 - very noticeably so.  The output from the GX80 reminds me of my Nex 5n - which is a good thing.  Previously when out shooting with the 5n and the G6 - the G6 photos were noticeably "duller" - just something about them seemed flat - and they didn't like much post-processing (probably lack of DR)

[markr041]

A test 4K video using the tiny 35-100 f4-5.6 zoom. Shot in Standard, -2 NR only, to see what the camera puts out. Also tests the audio, as there is a jazz group playing unamplified. All handheld.

 

[sgreszcz]

Just found out that this camera + 12-32 lens was on sale at Currys last week for £499 - Panasonic £50 cash back - £100 for lens on eBay = £350 for the GX80 body.  Crazy.

Prices back up to £599 - £50 cash back, but that was almost as good a deal as the G7 on sale for £250 with cash back last November.

[fuzzynormal]

1 minute ago, sgreszcz said:

Just found out that this camera + 12-32 lens was on sale at Currys last week for £499 - Panasonic £50 cash back - £100 for lens on eBay = £350 for the GX80 body.  Crazy.

Prices back up to £599 - £50 cash back, but that was almost as good a deal as the G7 on sale for £250 with cash back last November.

Yeah, this camera is leading right now in value/performance as far as I'm concerned.  It is sort of amazing what can be accomplished with this stuff now-a-days.  

[Buckster]

1 hour ago, sgreszcz said:

Just found out that this camera + 12-32 lens was on sale at Currys last week for £499 - Panasonic £50 cash back - £100 for lens on eBay = £350 for the GX80 body.  Crazy.

Prices back up to £599 - £50 cash back, but that was almost as good a deal as the G7 on sale for £250 with cash back last November.

yeah that was the deal I went for (except I got John Lewis to price match ) great value for money

just now deciding whether to sell the 12-32 on or keep it (have a 14-140 II)

not really tried the 12-32 yet - but feels a bit like a toy

[markr041]

26 minutes ago, Buckster said:

eah that was the deal I went for (except I got John Lewis to price match ) great value for money

just now deciding whether to sell the 12-32 on or keep it (have a 14-140 II)

not really tried the 12-32 yet - but feels a bit like a toy

Toy feel or not, it is likely sharper than your 14-140 at all focal lengths, gives you a slightly wider view on the short end, and makes the GX85 a carry-around everywhere camera, unlike with the big 14-140mm. The "toy" lens also makes use of dual-IS. With the toy 35-100mm lens in addition (also dual IS), you have almost the full range of the 14-140mm with better sharpness and the two lenses together I think weigh less than the 14-140mm. The 14-140 II does also make use of dual IS, with a firmware upgrade.

[tweak]

12-32 looks pretty crappy, but it's actually a decent lens.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

Ming Thein was impressed with it, which is saying something.

[markr041]

The "toy" kit, with super performance:

[Buckster]

ok ok - maybe I'll give the 12-32 a chance then ! cheers

it seems near silent with it's OIS at least - unlike my 14-140 II - so may get around the annoyance I have of very loud background noise when taking video with the 14-140 ...