An adventure into the Panasonic GX85/80 begins - and a look at the Leica Nocticron for Micro Four Thirds

[Fredrik Lyhne]

On 26. juli 2016 at 5:10 PM, mercer said:

Good workflow. Thanks. I always find it very helpful to see before and afters and then the modus operandi. I have a lot of similar shots in a short I am working on. I am not that proficient with color, so these little tips are priceless. Thanks again. 

Sure thing! We're all here to help each other. I'm learning something new about color every time I grade some footage. Hope you can post your short here. I am also really excited to know how you feel about the XC10 vs G7 after you had for while.

[mercer]

3 minutes ago, Fredrik Lyhne said:

Sure thing! We're all here to help each other. I'm learning something new about color every time I grade some footage. Hope you can post your short here. I am also really excited to know how you feel about the XC10 vs G7 after you had for while.

Well, let me start by saying, I really liked the G7... but so far, I love the XC10... but I miss interchangeable lenses. But this is a long story for me... and it may be boring for you...

Last year around this time I had just my eos-m, then the lure of 4K and a ridiculously cheap price tag brought me to pick up an NX500. I had a love hate relationship with the camera. By the time I started finding it's sweet spot, the G7 went on sale. Since I had a small collection of c-mount lenses, and the bundle came with a Rode VideoMic Pro I jumped on it. The NX500 was a little sharper and shot in Cinema 4K, but the ease of use and external mic plug in led me to use the G7 way more than the NX500... so I sold the Samsung.

Shortly after that I decided to pick up the FZ300 for family stuff and I liked a lot of the features... I loved that camera. Without a doubt it was the most fun camera to go out and shoot with, but the IQ just wasn't there.

Still happy with my G7, and my lenses, I just went on writing some shorts and planning some shoots. One of the shorts I wrote required some slow motion. I had read that the Nikon D5500 had really nice and clean 1080p both in 24p and 60p... all of the videos I saw online confirmed that. And since I had a small collection of Nikkor lenses, i thought it would be the perfect option... it was out for over a year and I figured the price would be well below $500 for a body only... even if it was grey market. Well it wasn't... the cheapest I could find at the time was refurbished for $600... which was a little more than I wanted to spend for a camera I would probably only use for one short and then I realized the BMMCC had come out and was getting glowing reviews for it's 60p...

Once again I was lured in by the promise of natively shooting ProRes and Raw, so I sold a few things and bought one. For the first month I loved the camera... I was able to use old Kern Paillard lenses and the Raw image is just stunning... as is the ProRes... but it is literally the most unenjoyable camera to shoot with. I prefer to shoot handheld or with a monopod and the form factor of the BMMCC is not suited for handheld once you rig the camera up with even just the bare essentials. And the battery life is simply horrible. You cannot leave a battery attached to the camera, because it will drain almost as fast with the camera off as it does with the camera on in standby and the batteries take 2+ hours to charge, so you really have to prep your kit the morning before a shoot, so you can charge half a dozen batteries...

But the image is just damn gorgeous.

After a while I just got burnt out using it. It wasn't any fun rigging it up every time I went out to shoot... or break it down if I was moving to a different location. Since I consider myself a run and gun shooter, all spontaneity ran out the door because it was such a hassle to quickly reset shots... for me. Other shooters who are more used to rigs and the proper way of shooting narratives are probably fine with it... but for me... it's just not an option any more.

Then one day I was reading eos hd and I came upon Andrew's review of the XC10. Now mind you, I was in love with this camera when it was released... I may have been the only one. Over time, every negative I had about the camera faded away as more and more footage emerged. 

Basically my buying and selling of cameras and lenses over the past year put me in a unique position to afford the XC10 this year. So, after a little more research, I jumped in head first last week. I have only shot with it for a couple hours, but I enjoyed every second of it. I have been mostly shooting with the 1080p C-Log, but the couple test shots I did do in 4K... I was pretty impressed. Now I just have to learn how to expose C-Log properly... I'm starting to get the hang of it and how to grade it properly... I'll probably never get the hang of it.

Finally, I originally intended to keep the micro and use it for really small, contained shorts. I have a few short film ideas that are only a couple minutes long. But after using the XC10, I don't think I could go back to the Micro, I think I would feel stifled. This leaves me without an interchangeable lens camera... Hmm? I love my lenses and I know eventually I will want to use them again. If I had to purchase another camera today... which I won't... I am leaning towards either the GX85 or maybe I'll stay with the Canon family and pick up a used C100... I actually bid on one the day after I used C-Log for the first time, but I didn't win it... maybe next time.

Sorry for the long post. Basically, 5-axis ibis and IQ trumps the G7... even with the ability to change lenses. I also think the internal 4k to 1080 downscale, of the XC10 is better, to my eyes, than the internal 4K of the G7, with post downscale to 1080p. The G7 wins in the shallow depth category and with that in the lowlight category.

The GX85 seems to have a better image than the G7 and it has 5-axis... but no mic input. It seems like there is no perfect camera out there, but the XC10 is the closest i have come to thus far. It seems like the GX80/85 owners feel the same about that camera... if it had the mic input, I may have chosen that over the XC10.

Again sorry for the long, and boring, post but these things are so subjective, I wanted to give the history of how I got here... which may help people understand why I inevitably chose the XC10 over the G7, GX85 and BMMCC.

[luminescence]

21 hours ago, sanveer said:

https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/dscoi/DMC-GX80/EG_EC_EF_EB/guideENG.pdf

many thanks Sanveer!

[Fredrik Lyhne]

3 hours ago, mercer said:

Again sorry for the long, and boring, post but these things are so subjective, I wanted to give the history of how I got here... which may help people understand why I inevitably chose the XC10 over the G7, GX85 and BMMCC.

Not boring at all, and probably very useful for many readers. Cool that you finally found a camera that ticks most of the boxes!

[Kurtisso]

Has anyone tried putting the BMPCC speedbooster on the GX85 yet? It works beautifully on the Digital Bolex

[sgreszcz]

Here is the edit from my first real video job.  Unfortunately I was only able to capture the preparations as the parade was cancelled due to lightning and torrential rain.  Horrible weather to work in.  Too bad, as all the kids and organisers put tonnes of time into preparations.  Handheld using two GX80 with the Panasonic 12-35/2.8 and 35-100/2.8 lenses (the LX100 for time-lapse).

 

[Jimbo]

On 23/07/2016 at 10:15 PM, jase said:

My first project with the GX80. Since size / weight does matter and securities are kinda picky, i had no choice but to leave my lovely Voigtländer 25 lens at home and put the Panasonic 20mm on it. I had mixed feelings especially I did not use this lens for a very long time but in the end, I am satisfied with the result. Grading was a breeze, skin tones need little to no adjustment and also this lens works quite well with the Tiffen Ultra Contrast Filter. 

Love it! Thanks for sharing, Jase. The Panasonic 20mm has a lovely rendering, different to the Voigtlander but still has some magic. Out of interest, if you had used the Voigtlander, would you have still used the Tiffen contrast filter with it? I find Panasonic lenses have stronger contrast so was interested if that was a creative choice with that particular lens. I need to get me one of those filters...

[jase]

35 minutes ago, Jimbo said:

Love it! Thanks for sharing, Jase. The Panasonic 20mm has a lovely rendering, different to the Voigtlander but still has some magic. Out of interest, if you had used the Voigtlander, would you have still used the Tiffen contrast filter with it? I find Panasonic lenses have stronger contrast so was interested if that was a creative choice with that particular lens. I need to get me one of those filters...

Nope, I am using the filter on all lenses i have currently. Just love it.

[Miki de la Rosa]

2 hours ago, jase said:

Nope, I am using the filter on all lenses i have currently. Just love it.

Hi @jase, Where did you get the Tiffen filter for the 20mm? I want to buy it but I can't find it anywhere, thanks! 

[RobK]

On 7/28/2016 at 1:46 PM, jase said:

Nope, I am using the filter on all lenses i have currently. Just love it.

What filter is it exactly because you have the Tiffen contrast filter 1, 3 and 5.... 

Can you tell me some more about the filter you have because i really like the look.

[Nathan]

Has anyone in Europe bought this from outside Europe for cameras without the 30min limit? I was looking for stores in Hong Kong. Someone surgesteed personal-view.com but I don't know anything about them. Shame to see DigitalRev is only selling with the kit lens and it's out of stock. Anyone know of any HK or any other trustworthy online stores where I can buy one? Thanks.

[mechanicalEYE]

1 hour ago, RobK said:

What filter is it exactly because you have the Tiffen contrast filter 1, 3 and 5.... 

Can you tell me some more about the filter you have because i really like the look.

RobK,

 

he uses the Tiffen Ultra Contrast Filter 3. It's listed in the video details.

[bamigoreng]

On 28. 7. 2016 at 3:51 PM, Miki de la Rosa said:

Hi @jase, Where did you get the Tiffen filter for the 20mm? I want to buy it but I can't find it anywhere, thanks! 

52mm UC filter + step up ring? Link: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=tiffen+ultra+contrast&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=

[jase]

On 28.7.2016 at 3:51 PM, Miki de la Rosa said:

Hi @jase, Where did you get the Tiffen filter for the 20mm? I want to buy it but I can't find it anywhere, thanks! 

I am from Germany, so i bought it at Amazon.de, you also find them on ebay.

3 hours ago, RobK said:

What filter is it exactly because you have the Tiffen contrast filter 1, 3 and 5.... 

Can you tell me some more about the filter you have because i really like the look.

Tiffen Ultra Contrast 3!

[Michael Coffee]

2 hours ago, Nathan said:

Has anyone in Europe bought this from outside Europe for cameras without the 30min limit? I was looking for stores in Hong Kong. Someone surgesteed personal-view.com but I don't know anything about them. Shame to see DigitalRev is only selling with the kit lens and it's out of stock. Anyone know of any HK or any other trustworthy online stores where I can buy one? Thanks.

Personal View has a good reputation for their deals. Vitaly, who runs the site, is the guy that originally hacked the GH1/GH2 Panasonics..

[Buckster]

could anyone recommend a good reasonably all round starting point for video please - settings wise (contrast, sharpness etc), and WB - don't want to spend hours colour grading - but don't mind doing a bit (using Resolve)

also - I'm so shocked at audio quality from internal mic - anyone recommend an external please ?

currently I'm between a H4N (would it attach to hotshoe via adapter ?), H2N, Tascam DR-40 (same price as H4N in UK) or Sony SX2000 ....

 

[markr041]

2 hours ago, Buckster said:

could anyone recommend a good reasonably all round starting point for video please - settings wise (contrast, sharpness etc), and WB - don't want to spend hours colour grading - but don't mind doing a bit (using Resolve)

 

 

Here is what Standard default looks like on a sunny day (NR -2):

To me, that's what I saw, and what I wanted to convey.

If you want something unrealistic with a "look" then you may want to use Natural as a base. But it is not at all clear whether you should also drastically reduce contrast, saturation and sharpness in the camera when you shoot, since altering those in post forces you do it on a highly compressed, 4:2:0 8-bit video. Camera settings, however, are invoked prior to compression.

I think you should get the look you want in the camera (whatever that is), but others seem to want to do more in post based on severely altered from normal settings in the camera. Why not try to get the camera to produce the look you want (there are lots of controls), and then tweak in post from there, rather than trying to get a "blank slate" out of the camera that needs a lot of work in post? No flat setting really mimics RAW video. In any case I am not advocating your videos should look like the one I posted; it is just an example of what one setting produces.

[Inazuma]

On 23 July 2016 at 10:15 PM, jase said:

My first project with the GX80. Since size / weight does matter and securities are kinda picky, i had no choice but to leave my lovely Voigtländer 25 lens at home and put the Panasonic 20mm on it. I had mixed feelings especially I did not use this lens for a very long time but in the end, I am satisfied with the result. Grading was a breeze, skin tones need little to no adjustment and also this lens works quite well with the Tiffen Ultra Contrast Filter. 

Nice job  I can see the improvements in your technique with each video. And I know that doing something like this at a festival whilst drinking is quite a challenge

[jase]

41 minutes ago, Inazuma said:

Nice job  I can see the improvements in your technique with each video. And I know that doing something like this at a festival whilst drinking is quite a challenge

Wow, thank you, really appreciating it, Inazuma!

[Buckster]

22 hours ago, markr041 said:

Here is what Standard default looks like on a sunny day (NR -2):

To me, that's what I saw, and what I wanted to convey.

If you want something unrealistic with a "look" then you may want to use Natural as a base. But it is not at all clear whether you should also drastically reduce contrast, saturation and sharpness in the camera when you shoot, since altering those in post forces you do it on a highly compressed, 4:2:0 8-bit video. Camera settings, however, are invoked prior to compression.

I think you should get the look you want in the camera (whatever that is), but others seem to want to do more in post based on severely altered from normal settings in the camera. Why not try to get the camera to produce the look you want (there are lots of controls), and then tweak in post from there, rather than trying to get a "blank slate" out of the camera that needs a lot of work in post? No flat setting really mimics RAW video. In any case I am not advocating your videos should look like the one I posted; it is just an example of what one setting produces.

thanks very much markr041 - will try that

btw - surprised how many negative comments in review below on video quality of the GX85 - especially DR wise - I'm genuinely surprised

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6GnkQo2clM

at 10 minutes in - specifically states thinks the G7 has better video output than the G85