An adventure into the Panasonic GX85/80 begins - and a look at the Leica Nocticron for Micro Four Thirds

[BucksterUK]

thanks - markr041 - is your 45-150 a VR lens ?  my internal mic picks up the OIS off my 14-140 badly (and the 12-32 to a lesser extent)

I was thinking a external mic on the tripod or flash mounted might pick up the sound also as only a few extra cms away

[4Kfan]

When I shot that video portrait of the leather artisan I had an H1 on a small tripod a few feet away from my subject. It still recorded the background air conditioner noise but not as much. A lavalier would have been better. I find the in camera microphone is acceptable for ambient sound or if the subject is close by in a quiet room. So for home video like birthday party in my house it was quite adequate. Outside or if the subject is far away an external recording system is obviously better. I have try attaching the H1 to the hot shoe directly but I pick up a lot of handling noise of the camera. I am planning to buy a RODE videomicro, which has a  shock mount , to attach to the hotshoe and feed that to the H1.

[fuzzynormal]

3 hours ago, markr041 said:

How bad is the GX85 audio? Real bad.

Yes it is.  

--I'm not aware of any still camera from any manufacturer that has a good mic in it.  

I don't believe that anyone in their right mind would use the camera mics from hybrids to record the main sound track, however.

The best the gx85 offers is that it creates an audio reference track for post sync to a proper recording, and that'll have to do. 

(It would be nice if it had an audio input, but it doesn't. Oh well)

3 hours ago, markr041 said:

mic placement is not the issue.

That's never not an issue.  I'd recommend that if you think otherwise to seriously reconsider.

[mercer]

EDIT: Never mind. 

[markr041]

I cannot get quotes to work. So, I will just respond to the questions about the audio track comparison. First, yes, the lens I used was using dual-IS - both IBIS and OIS working. I do not hear the effects of that on the Zoom track, but outdoors there is plenty of other ambient, low-level noise. So this was  not a good test of that issue. On mic placement, sure it matters always, but for outdoor amplified speaker concerts it is less of an issue than wind. When the camera and mic are attached, mic placement gives way to camera placement anyway, which is why in most cases they should be separated physically. If you think you can get good audio using the mic preamps in hybrid cameras, even with good mics, I'd recommend you seriously reconsider :).

[Matt Holder]

12 hours ago, Michael Coffee said:

Hey 4kfan - great looking video - nice sound - not sure about the slo mo in the middle

I reckon it looks great for sure! Well done!

Image quality and IBIS looks good from the camera for that Belt video

The audio was pretty off except for  some of the ambient / tool noises

With a piece like this the audio drives the piece and brings the viewer in - for your next video try and get a lav or a shotgun in close to really get the timbre  and bass of your subject's voice - it will be a pain to sync up (or not if you dont button off during the interview)  - but that's why we pay extra for Gh4 4s with audio inputs (works great with the Rode Film maker wireless mic system)  - or have a sound guy (my budgets usually dont allow for this luxury but its so good when the budget is there)

 

There is some good free production  music you can download on youtube  -the background soundtrack was pretty jarring in parts...

 

 I made ALL these mistakes (and more)  too back in the day - if you can learn from each video you do you will get to where you want to be much more rapidly.

[jase]

Interesting conversation about the H1 because I was thinking for getting it as well. I am only interested in ambient sounds, no interviews or whatsoever - do you guys still think that mounting the H1 on the hotshoe is an acceptable compromise? I want to keep things small.

[Cinegain]

I find it useful as recorder or as locked off mic. As an active mic... maybe not so much, it picks up a lot of handling noise. Maybe a RØDE Videomic X or some similar?

[4Kfan]

3 hours ago, Matt Holder said:

The audio was pretty off except for  some of the ambient / tool noises. With a piece like this the audio drives the piece and brings the viewer in - for your next video try and get a lav or a shotgun in close to really get the timbre  and bass of your subject's voice - it will be a pain to sync up (or not if you dont button off during the interview)  - but that's why we pay extra for Gh4 4s with audio inputs (works great with the Rode Film maker wireless mic system)  - or have a sound guy (my budgets usually dont allow for this luxury but its so good when the budget is there)

There is some good free production  music you can download on youtube  -the background soundtrack was pretty jarring in parts...

Agree. A shotgun and a lav is on my next to buy list. I am still learning how to mix the audio tracks so having trouble getting the level right.

I have now graded the video with filmconvert. I'm not sure it's better but it has a different look. See what you guys think.

 

[mercer]

1 hour ago, jase said:

Interesting conversation about the H1 because I was thinking for getting it as well. I am only interested in ambient sounds, no interviews or whatsoever - do you guys still think that mounting the H1 on the hotshoe is an acceptable compromise? I want to keep things small.

The problem with the H1 is that it's not that small. It's thin but it's long.  Tascam makes a small recorder.

@IronFilm linked to it in a previous post. 

[jase]

27 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

I find it useful as recorder or as locked off mic. As an active mic... maybe not so much, it picks up a lot of handling noise. Maybe a RØDE Videomic X or some similar?

looks interesting, but i am not willing to spend 800 euros for now...

 

25 minutes ago, mercer said:

The problem with the H1 is that it's not that small. It's thin but it's long.  Tascam makes a small recorder.

@IronFilm linked to it in a previous post. 

cant find it, would you help me out?

[DevonChris]

8 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

Yes it is.  

--I'm not aware of any still camera from any manufacturer that has a good mic in it.  

I don't believe that anyone in their right mind would use the camera mics from hybrids to record the main sound track, however.

The best the gx85 offers is that it creates an audio reference track for post sync to a proper recording, and that'll have to do. 

(It would be nice if it had an audio input, but it doesn't. Oh well)

That's never not an issue.  I'd recommend that if you think otherwise to seriously reconsider.

I have been surprised how good the quality of the sound is from my GX8 internal mic when recording externally using the Atomos Ninja Star.

It makes me think that it is the in-camera audio compression that causes most of the problem, rather than the mic.

However I only use the internal mic for synching, even when recording to the Atomos.

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, mercer said:

The problem with the H1 is that it's not that small. It's thin but it's long.  Tascam makes a small recorder.

@IronFilm linked to it in a previous post. 

 

2 hours ago, jase said:

cant find it, would you help me out?

Maybe he means the Tascam DR-10CS? (or DR-10X) I've mentioned it a few times. 
Doesn't have a mic built in however. 

Tascam have a few models kinda like the H1 as well, like the Tascam DR-22WL.

Saramonic is bringing out a recorder as well:
http://ironfilm.co.nz/saramonic-sr-vrm1-new-xlr-sound-recorder-coming-soon/

[sanveer]

6 hours ago, jase said:

looks interesting, but i am not willing to spend 800 euros for now...

 

cant find it, would you help me out?

I am not sure the Rode Mic X has a built-in recorder. 

I tried using a Zoon H2n once, but the Zooms (and most other handheld recorders), have a lot of handling noise, as a consequence of the rumbling of their plastic bodies. This becomes more noticeable once you walk, as well as while you listen to the sound on a pair of headphones. And the lack of a shock-mount may aggravate the issue.

Try the Saramonic dual recorder. It seems like a cheaper version of the one made by Shure (LensHopper VP 83f). Though they both will record dual-mono only (I could be wrong about the Saramonic).

Edit: this is the link for the Mic 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01B1QO12Y/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8

[jase]

Thanks for the suggestions. Yet in terms of overall size, the H1 looks like the smallest device. I cant yet imagine myself putting someting like the Saramonic dual recorder on my GX85 - there is no way i can slip the camera in my carrying case anymore and pull it out fast & frequently during activities like a hike or being on a festival, etc... I like to keep my setup small  Maybe I will just test the H1 since it is quite cheap. Maybe it is not the perfect solution, yet it should improve the recording of ambient sounds compared to internal mic

[Liam]

This is probably more adorable than helpful, but.. thinking outside the box.. https://www.amazon.com/Micover-Stickover-Mini-Universal-Windscreen-Laptops/dp/B006IWYH4Y

[mercer]

9 hours ago, jase said:

Sorry for using your quote box, this site is so weird sometimes...

Anyway, yeah I think the recorders IronFilm mentioned were recorders only, but I swore Tascam made a really small recorder with external mics but I can't find it. But you could add a tiny stick microphone into one of their small recorders, or look into the JuicedLink Little Darling recorder and then get a tiny mic to plug into it. I have a small Olympus LS-7, I believe it's called the LS-5 in Europe. It's an old model but it will show up on eBay and Amazon from time to time. The onboard mics are excellent. I think it was designed for nature recorders but a real nice function of it is the choice of pick up pattern on the onboard microphone. I have two of them that I use when I want to lav actors, or I just use the onboard attached to the camera for ambient sound or I use it with a shotgun. It's a very versatile little product.

@jase here's a link to the LS-7. They have newer models but I'm unsure of their size. Also, just to be clear the H1 is a great recorder, I just found that it was a little too big and I wasn't a fan of the plastic build quality. 

http://www.getolympus.com/us/en/ls-7-digital-voice-recorder.html

[bamigoreng]

26 minutes ago, mercer said:

@jase here's a link to the LS-7. They have newer models but I'm unsure of their size. Also, just to be clear the H1 is a great recorder, I just found that it was a little too big and I wasn't a fan of the plastic build quality. 

http://www.getolympus.com/us/en/ls-7-digital-voice-recorder.html

Olympus LS-5: https://www.audiotranskription.de/Olympus-LS-5

[jase]

And again, the forum strikes back - thanks for making me aware of the Olympus recorder, mercer! it is indeed much smaller than the Zoom H1 and the current generation sounds great for ambient (i heared some samples) - will definitely look into them!

[mercer]

1 hour ago, jase said:

And again, the forum strikes back - thanks for making me aware of the Olympus recorder, mercer! it is indeed much smaller than the Zoom H1 and the current generation sounds great for ambient (i heared some samples) - will definitely look into them!

Yeah, I can't recommend them enough. The onboard mics are great . And they're so small they just get out of the way. 

My plan is to use that with the Rode VideoMicro on an L-bracket for a simple run and gun setup.