An adventure into the Panasonic GX85/80 begins - and a look at the Leica Nocticron for Micro Four Thirds

[Fredrik Lyhne]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Thanks for putting my video in such good company but I think there are better examples than mine that show off the quality the GX85 delivers. Your latest video, for example, looks brilliant. You are a very good colorist with the way you make the GX85's video image look so organic and film-like.

It truly is a great camera and a comparison to the XC10 isn't really fair on so many levels, except that they are cameras I own. If I wasn't so hell bent on having a camera to intercut close ups with my XC10 footage, specifically using Canon's DPAF, I would definitely keep the GX85. But with my recent Canon 35mm f2 lens purchase, I am compelled to use it with a DPAF capable camera, so it looks like an 80D is in my future.

Then the question will become, do I need to keep the GX85, or do I just want to. If I can find a use for it, I will be happy to keep it.

Well, the colors of your footage looks nice to my eyes! 

Thanks for the kind words!! I feel like I'm getting better with every video, but some of my old footage is not that great at all. I try to learn from past mistakes and pick up tips here and there. The most important thing I have learned though is to WB, expose and light to have the best starting point (probably goes with out saying but if something is overlooked it makes it so much harder to correct in post). Basically getting to know how to set up your camera for best results. 

I shot that video in the summer on my own actually using a Aputure VS-2 as a monitor with a long HDMI cable. I waited until the sun had past the windows and set WB to 6000 something. Then I underexposed by about a stop as especially skin tones look a lot better that way without a log profile on this camera . Standard 0, -5, -5, 0 and that's it. 

I used Color Finale to adjust contrast, and adjusted WB with color wheels and curves. I spend some time using the built-in Apple color picker tool to check WB on the black kitchen counter. It's a little time consuming but it was definitely worth it. So actually a pretty simple setup and grade in the end  

I tried for so long to get good looking natural colors and I finally feel that I actually know what I'm doing. Next up will be trying to learn how to make more creative look's for other stuff. 

I get why you want the Canons though, the footage is really nice! 

[John Matthews]

2 hours ago, mercer said:

It truly is a great camera and a comparison to the XC10 isn't really fair on so many levels, except that they are cameras I own. If I wasn't so hell bent on having a camera to intercut close ups with my XC10 footage, specifically using Canon's DPAF, I would definitely keep the GX85. But with my recent Canon 35mm f2 lens purchase, I am compelled to use it with a DPAF capable camera, so it looks like an 80D is in my future.

Agreed... not fair on so many levels.   Here's a quick look:

Price: $2000 (XC10) vs $800 (GX85)

I think the discussion should probably stop there. The form-factors are way different too. The XC10 doesn't look like a hybrid video/photo camera at all IMO- just a video camera. I'm sure it has great ergonomics and I trust @Mattias Burling 's "5 Reasons to buy the XC10." The footage looks nice.

[Thpriest]

10 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

Agreed... not fair on so many levels.   Here's a quick look:

Price: $2000 (XC10) vs $800 (GX85)

I think the discussion should probably stop there. The form-factors are way different too. The XC10 doesn't look like a hybrid video/photo camera at all IMO- just a video camera. I'm sure it has great ergonomics and I trust @Mattias Burling 's "5 Reasons to buy the XC10." The footage looks nice.

I disagree that the discussion should stop there. Once you buy 2 or 3 lenses and a variable ND the price of the GX85 is getting close to the XC10. Undoubtedly there are key differences like codec, sensor size, fixed lens or not, but for some they are legitimate competitors. Both are offering stabilised 4k and 50p HD in a small form factor. In my case the GX85 has unlimited recording times and doesn't overheat. The way I see it is that with the GX85 I'm dipping my toe into the m4/3 world to see how it compares to Canon. I prefer the Canon image but for the work I'm doing going light weight is a real bonus. Low light is very important for me and to compare the 2 is invaluable. I don't expect them to have the same capabilities as my C100 but they both interest me greatly.

[Georgios]

Tried sigma 50-100 /1.8 with .64 XL.....no IBIS but AF ok...using 2.3 firmware on speedbooster...

So issue written in the initial post still persists? :-(

[John Matthews]

9 minutes ago, Thpriest said:

I disagree that the discussion should stop there. Once you buy 2 or 3 lenses and a variable ND the price of the GX85 is getting close to the XC10. Undoubtedly there are key differences like codec, sensor size, fixed lens or not, but for some they are legitimate competitors. Both are offering stabilised 4k and 50p HD in a small form factor. In my case the GX85 has unlimited recording times and doesn't overheat. The way I see it is that with the GX85 I'm dipping my toe into the m4/3 world to see how it compares to Canon. I prefer the Canon image but for the work I'm doing going light weight is a real bonus. Low light is very important for me and to compare the 2 is invaluable. I don't expect them to have the same capabilities as my C100 but they both interest me greatly.

I can understand why you'd want something smaller than the C100. Personally, I'd go GX85 simply because you can practically pocket it with the kit lens. Then just accept the limitations it has... don't want limitations? ... take the C100. Ultimately, you have to decide what you can live with. There are so many (too many?) great choices. For me, the XC10 wasn't even possible because you can't really "start" with it. You simply have it or you don't. Also, I don't need the extra features it offers and the form-factor is too strange and big for me... I might scare my daughter with it.

[John Matthews]

Firmware finally out for GX80/85... will report later, but here it is:

http://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/global/cs/dsc/download/fts/index2.html

1. Focus Stacking is now available.
2. New function which enables the user to enlarge focus area after shooting by combining multiple images shot with Post Focus function.
3. [Sequence] can now be selected for Focus Bracket recording.
4. [Flash Mode] can now be set to [Forced Flash Off] for built-in flash.

Seems to work as advertised... still testing.

[Grimor]

Aren't those features inherited from new G80?

If i buy G80, can i expect a further update with some of the GH5 flavour?

[Dean]

I'm absolutely loving this camera. Have it pretty much set up to how I want it now using C1, C2 & C3. Excellent street cam for both video and stills. I've gone from having gripes regarding the min shutter / ISO thing to thinking this is one of the best cameras I've ever owned  Originally bought it for my wife to replace the LX100 but the Lx100 can stay and I'll keep this one !!

 

[John Matthews]

1 hour ago, John Matthews said:

Firmware finally out for GX80/85... will report later, but here it is:

http://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/global/cs/dsc/download/fts/index2.html

1. Focus Stacking is now available.
2. New function which enables the user to enlarge focus area after shooting by combining multiple images shot with Post Focus function.
3. [Sequence] can now be selected for Focus Bracket recording.
4. [Flash Mode] can now be set to [Forced Flash Off] for built-in flash.

Seems to work as advertised... still testing.

1. Focus stacking: verdict- cool with 16MP raw shots with options. I thought this option was already there... oh well.

2. Post focus: verdict- beta IMO... too many out-of-focus areas appear in the final jpg, maybe needs to be scene dependent.

3. Sequence: goes with focus bracketing of 16MP shots... can shoot "0/+" or "-/0/+". I believe "0" is the start image and it will increment to + or - after. Interesting extra feature that I probably won't use too often. Nice to know it's there.

4. Found it. Not sure why. Is this simply to be able to have the flash "open" and not have it go off? I'm confused. Help me understand.

34 minutes ago, Grimor said:

Aren't those features inherited from new G80?

If i buy G80, can i expect a further update with some of the GH5 flavour?

Yes.

Maybe.

[John Matthews]

Here are the instructions that were added to the current manual with firmware v1.1:

3 hours ago, Dean said:

I'm absolutely loving this camera. Have it pretty much set up to how I want it now using C1, C2 & C3. Excellent street cam for both video and stills. I've gone from having gripes regarding the min shutter / ISO thing to thinking this is one of the best cameras I've ever owned  Originally bought it for my wife to replace the LX100 but the Lx100 can stay and I'll keep this one !!

 

@Dean Did you figure out your problem with IBIS? Just wondering because it looked odd.

[Dean]

11 hours ago, John Matthews said:

 

@Dean Did you figure out your problem with IBIS? Just wondering because it looked odd.

No, I didn't. It was still jittery with dual IBIS... I sold it along with the 35-100/4-5.6 which I didn't like either. Maybe the 12-32 I had was a dud ... not sure.

I've bought the 15/1.7 & the 12-35/2.8 ... both of which are excellent and no issues with IBIS. I also have the 42.5/1.7 on the way which I'm really looking forward to using. 

The GX85, 15/1.7 & 42.5/1.7 look like the perfect combo for me.

[John Matthews]

12 hours ago, Dean said:

I've bought the 15/1.7 & the 12-35/2.8 ... both of which are excellent and no issues with IBIS. I also have the 42.5/1.7 on the way which I'm really looking forward to using. 

The GX85, 15/1.7 & 42.5/1.7 look like the perfect combo for me.

Nice setup. That should work great for you.

[tosvus]

16 hours ago, Dean said:

No, I didn't. It was still jittery with dual IBIS... I sold it along with the 35-100/4-5.6 which I didn't like either. Maybe the 12-32 I had was a dud ... not sure.

I've bought the 15/1.7 & the 12-35/2.8 ... both of which are excellent and no issues with IBIS. I also have the 42.5/1.7 on the way which I'm really looking forward to using. 

The GX85, 15/1.7 & 42.5/1.7 look like the perfect combo for me.

This reminds me of my woes with the Pana 35-100 2.8 and the ibis that even after their firmware update still has some jitter issues. This or the G85 could alternatively help by worst case simply turn off IS on the lens and use in body ibis instead... looking forward to testing that once I get a new camera. 

[sgreszcz]

1 hour ago, tosvus said:

This reminds me of my woes with the Pana 35-100 2.8 and the ibis that even after their firmware update still has some jitter issues. This or the G85 could alternatively help by worst case simply turn off IS on the lens and use in body ibis instead... looking forward to testing that once I get a new camera. 

The P35-100/2.8 works quite well no on the GX80 with Dual-IS although I still think that the E-M5II with IBIS only is a bit more solid with the same lens.  Check out my test on youtube, and I used the P12-35/2.8 and P35-100/2.8 for this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohVyjbQoxhs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAshlUXNxJk

[tosvus]

30 minutes ago, sgreszcz said:

The P35-100/2.8 works quite well no on the GX80 with Dual-IS although I still think that the E-M5II with IBIS only is a bit more solid with the same lens.  Check out my test on youtube, and I used the P12-35/2.8 and P35-100/2.8 for this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohVyjbQoxhs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAshlUXNxJk

Thanks, will do!

[Novim]

2 days ago I made shots of the Belgrade October Salon 2016 - it is a biennial expo of mostly conceptual art, nothing especial in itself. I wanted to break a bit with usual „naturalistic“ approach, and to get more in line with conceptual expo objects etc. so I choose to play with WB a lot in shooting and, yesterday, in grading this video. I got some (imho, of course) very interesting results. The video is here (GX85, PanaLeica Summilux 15mm f/1.7, FCPX and DaVinci):

 

 

[John Matthews]

Here's a test of the G85, not the GX85, but it's interesting how much they actually share... Filmed on the FZ2500, but they haven't make any comments on yet.

 

[conurus]

I am in charge of firmware at Metabones and I would like to give an official response with regard to GX80/GX85.

We do not expect any EF mount to be able to take advantage of Dual I.S. in the foreseeable future. Either OIS or IBIS should be used, but not both. Andrew reported that "They seem to both operate and ignore each other, leading to problems." We could confirm that it is indeed the case when we downgrade to 1.4 or before. This was fixed in 1.5 a long time ago (Feb 2015). It is easy to tell one way or another: if both OIS and IBIS are active simultaneously, vibration will be overcorrected by twice as much and there will be just as much jitter as no IS, which is indeed what we see with adapter firmware 1.4 or earlier. If you are seeing just occasional slow jitter, it is likely you are observing the result of the vibration exceeding OIS' capabilities of that particular lens.

We have a 50-100/1.8 on order, but before that arrives, the most likely hypothesis drawn from Andrew's and our own observations is that adapter firmware 1.5 and after breaks the 50-100/1.8 and the old firmware 1.4 and before breaks all IS lenses (no AF and double correction). If this hypothesis is correct, you are okay with the current adapter firmware except for the 50-100/1.8 and except for the fact that you will be always using OIS but never IBIS.

A new adapter firmware will be around the corner with which we expect the 50-100/1.8 to be fixed as well. There will be a new option to choose between IBIS and OIS on Panasonic in the next firmware, something that is just natural for Olympus but not yet possible for Panasonic. (On Olympus if you turn off lens IS, IBIS comes on, but on Panasonic the lens IS switch turns off both OIS and IBIS.) The procedure to turn off OIS and turn on IBIS on Panasonic is not going to be pretty, but it will be doable.

I enjoy reading Andrew Reid's very informative review and tests, we greatly appreciate his work and we are always listening to customer reports of any issue which might arise. However, we would like to advise our customers that writing to support@metabones.com is the only way to ensure a problem is looked into in a timely manner. I do read eoshd often, but it is not a reasonable expectation that just because something is reported or discussed on eoshd we must be working on it. We appreciate you informing us of any issue via the official support channel in advance. That would greatly expedite the fix.

[jase]

Thanks for your reply, very informative. I already have sent you multiple emails over the last weeks/months - never got a reply, though...

So a new firmware will enable IBIS on thx gx85 while turning of OIS via lens switch, like the canon 35 2.0 is?

E.g. I can use that lens with the panasonic IBIS once you have updated the firmware @conurus ?

 

[conurus]

Sorry about that but I will have to discuss with our tech support about this. Something like "we are having engineering look into this" would have sufficed but I will ask them to reply even in situations where they don't have a real answer yet.

Yes you will be able to choose between OIS and IBIS with any IS lens. This is not final but the caveat is you can't change your election without powering down the camera and powering it on again.