An adventure into the Panasonic GX85/80 begins - and a look at the Leica Nocticron for Micro Four Thirds

[jase]

@John Matthews: thanks for your opinion, this might be a solution. Yet I know myself: although using a system that is based on changing lenses I know I wouldnt. Sounds stupid, but when I am travelling I face different situations all the time and I just know that I wont have the time for changing them based on the perfect moment. As @Cinegain pointed out some time ago, the camera (and thus the video) is the secondary focus, the trip it self is my primary focus. I dont do the trip to get the video, I do the trip and get as addition the video - if that makes any sense...

@bunk: damn, you guys are good. Exactly this scene was edited by myself a numerous times and I was never fully happy. Based on your and @mercer's remark I might do another take of the video and allign the sound as you suggested. Thanks!

[jonpais]

3 hours ago, John Matthews said:

I thought I might weigh in on this lens discussion. First, the GX80 is small and IMO it deserves a lens that is small. Isn't that a major reason to go MFT anyway? Secondly, I agree with @jase that focus by wire isn't the best for video, but I think it would easily work in a pinch. When you look at the Sigma 18-35 with a Speedbooster, it would probably be the last lens-combo you buy, especially if it works flawlessly with IBIS (not sure about that). However, it'd be $1000-$1500 for the Sigma/Speedbooster combo and you can't really go "small." I find it unfortunate that you almost have to buy the Metabones Speedbooster if you want communication between a zoom and the GX80. Otherwise, I'd buy a cheap Speedbooster and a cheap/good Canon zoom.

Personally, I've decided to go with:

• Panasonic 25mm F1.7 - $180 (new)
• Pentax 50mm F1.7 - $30 (used), $15 adapter
• Samyang 12mm F2.0 -$309 (new)

The total comes to less than the Speedbooster new or even a used Sigma 18-35. These 3 lenses are small enough, are arguably fast enough, cover the majority of focal length situations, and at least two of them offer great manual focus rings. I have yet to buy the Samyang 12mm, but 99% sure it'll be the one. Does anyone else have any experience with it?

The Sigma is a huge chunk of glass, not ideal for traveling. Also, it doesn't get all that wide either. But whatever Jase decides to get, I'm certain he'll surprise us all with his videos. ? I was ready to bite the bullet today on the Samyang myself, but nobody had one in stock here. There are a ton of online reviews and tests of the Samyang (overwhelmingly positive), but I've yet to see a single decent video showing how sharp the lens is shooting out on the streets. 

[John Matthews]

28 minutes ago, jase said:

Yet I know myself: although using a system that is based on changing lenses I know I wouldnt. Sounds stupid, but when I am travelling I face different situations all the time and I just know that I wont have the time for changing them based on the perfect moment.

Are you sure that the Sigma 18-35 communicates the focal length to the GX80 for the IBIS to adjust? Does it do it on the fly? That would seem like a huge usability concern. I can see the convenience of simply slapping a lens on and forgetting about it. For longer shots, you'd still need to remove the speedbooster; so, I'm not sure you're gaining much time or simplicity on that. IMO, simplicity would just be to put on one prime and that's it- many great directors have shot major films like this. Anyway, I look forward to seeing your future videos whatever the lens.

41 minutes ago, jonpais said:

The Sigma is a huge chunk of glass, not ideal for traveling. Also, it doesn't get all that wide either. But whatever Jase decides to get, I'm certain he'll surprise us all with his videos. ? I was ready to bite the bullet today on the Samyang myself, but nobody had one in stock here. There are a ton of online reviews and tests of the Samyang online (overwhelmingly positive), but I've yet to see a single decent video showing how sharp the lens is shooting out on the streets. 

I agree about the SIZE of the Sigma. I found a couple of videos on Youtube for the Samyang. I doubt sharpness would be any issue in video... After all, they make a cine version T2.2 of the lens too, I believe.

[jase]

8 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

Are you sure that the Sigma 18-35 communicates the focal length to the GX80 for the IBIS to adjust? Does it do it on the fly? That would seem like a huge usability concern. I can see the convenience of simply slapping a lens on and forgetting about it. For longer shots, you'd still need to remove the speedbooster; so, I'm not sure you're gaining much time or simplicity on that. IMO, simplicity would just be to put on one prime and that's it- many great directors have shot major films like this. Anyway, I look forward to seeing your future videos whatever the lens.

Well, at least @Andrew Reid told us in his review on page 1  And according to the master @conurus himself, with the new firmware it should work flawlessly. Well, in the end no review on earth can cover 100% of your personal requirements, so I will just test the Sigma. Since we all know, GAS is something amazing and evil at the same time

[jonpais]

2 minutes ago, jase said:

Well, at least @Andrew Reid told us in his review on page 1  And according to the master @conurus himself, with the new firmware it should work flawlessly. Well, in the end no review on earth can cover 100% of your personal requirements, so I will just test the Sigma. Since we all know, GAS is something amazing and evil at the same time

Just having single AF in video mode with the Sigma and Speed Booster is awesome for the way I work. Between my camera, lenses, stabilizer and Metabones, it's already difficult keeping up with all the firmware updates!

[mercer]

8 hours ago, jase said:

True indeed, the lens is rather heavy and big. Yet, I dont see myself switching cameras during the trip a lot, again: choices...

About bass vs. snare: valid point. After watching again I think you are right that this would improve the video.

About this Macklemore guy, I did not want to express that everybody should know this song, I am sorry!

As far as the Sigma goes, you've heard enough opposing points and you are skilled enough to know what will work for you, but I will add, it's not just about holding the weight that will be extremely front heavy, it's also the added weight of carrying it around. I always keep the camera on a neck strap around my neck and I know a couple extra pounds doesn't sound like much, but carrying it on your neck all day can really twist your neck, plus the length can be really obtrusive when trying to do simple tasks. Okay, that's the last I will say about it. 

[mercer]

Also @jase I think your video was great as is, it was just an idea I had... obviously you should do what you think works best for your vision... as I'm sure you would. 

Oh and I wasn't offended that you thought I should know Macklemore. I am definitely not in the know as far as pop culture goes these days. 

[sgreszcz]

On 11/6/2016 at 1:22 PM, Cinegain said:

But on a Panasonic body, that smaller lens, correction and OIS could mean the Panasonic 12-35mm would be well suited. Though I'm not sure if that micro jitter issue is still there?

No micro jitter on my GX80 with P35-100/2.8 nor P12-25/2.8 with Dual-IS.  I had the jitter with my GX7 and G7.  Check out my test on youtube (and I've posted it before in this forum).  I also get good results with the Olympus 7-14/2.8 - what a nice lens that is.

[jase]

4 minutes ago, sgreszcz said:

 I also get good results with the Olympus 7-14/2.8 - what a nice lens that is.

Interesting, since you got that lens and that camera, do you care to answer some questions?

When you have the focus ring not pulled back to manual mode, how does this focus ring operate? does it change the focus pull based on speed? e.g. when you turn the ring faster, the focus pull is much shorter? or is it linear, e.g. the focus is not related to the speed you turn the wheel?

If you put the focus ring in manual mode and if you set the AF/AE Lock button in the menu to "AF-ON", can you use this button to auto focus while being in the manual mode of the lens, or does it (as it does for the olympus 17 1.8) disable the AF/AE Lock button, so that no AF is possible when the lens is in its manual focus mode?

[sgreszcz]

On 11/7/2016 at 9:20 AM, John Matthews said:

I thought I might weigh in on this lens discussion. First, the GX80 is small and IMO it deserves a lens that is small. Isn't that a major reason to go MFT anyway? Secondly, I agree with @jase that focus by wire isn't the best for video, but I think it would easily work in a pinch.

I've been experimenting with some borrowed Voigtlander 17.5 and 42.5 lenses, but due to the small grip on the GX80 I find that my wrists tire quickly.  Maybe I'm just weak, but those lenses are pushing the balance/weight/comfort level for me.  As much as I like their look, I'm thinking of switching to just using my P15/1.7 and getting the P42.5/1.7 for indoor use.  Or maybe getting the PL12/1.4 or PL42.5/1.2 if I can get more paid work someday.  I think it was @fuzzynormal who mentioned that he might just use the Olympus 25/1.2, the PL42.5/1.2 and O12-40/2.8 zoom for most of his stuff going forward.

As @jase noted in his lessons learned, that hitting focus by "cheating" with the AF button is preferable to blurry unusable shots.  I find that I can edit around the AF seeking.  I have also found it particularly difficult to ensure focus with the GX80 during recording due to the limited resolution of the EVF and the inability to Punch-In Zoom while recording.  Also, even though I mostly shoot with the EVF/LCD in monochrome to better see the yellow peaking, it still is hard to see during shooting especially with fast-moving event-type stuff.  

When using lenses in manual mode, I do like how you can push-in the rear dial and it does Punch-In Zoom to help with focus, I just wish you could do the same while recording.

[Cinegain]

6 minutes ago, sgreszcz said:

No micro jitter on my GX80 with P35-100/2.8 nor P12-25/2.8 with Dual-IS.  I had the jitter with my GX7 and G7.  Check out my test on youtube (and I've posted it before in this forum).  I also get good results with the Olympus 7-14/2.8 - what a nice lens that is.

Good to hear! Might make the 12-35mm f/2.8 great again (  ). Yeah, I went with the comparable Olympus, because I figured, if I'm going to get the E-M1, I might as well go for the kit and save me some casheroos on the stunning lens and not get the Panasonic. Then when the 7-14mm f/2.8 PRO came out, had to get it. Especially because of its rectilinear design and quality of the lens (over the Panasonic counterpart).

 

Still would like the 40-150mm f/2.8 PRO with teleconverter as well, but you know... 1500 bucks and I already have the Panasonic 100-300mm that I actually quite like.

Great thing though is now we have a bit more freedom with the built-in stabilization. We can pick glass as we please.

[John Matthews]

Does anyone know why Panasonic has limited its shutter speed to 1/30 in video mode? Here's an interesting video I picked up today... a lot of it was review for me, but I learned one or two things from it that made me rethink how I shoot.

 

[RobD]

I picked up some tips from this video too. Have you tried shooting in manual mode with 1/30 shutter?

[BookMark]

3 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Does anyone know why Panasonic has limited its shutter speed to 1/30 in video mode? Here's an interesting video I picked up today... a lot of it was review for me, but I learned one or two things from it that made me rethink how I shoot.

 

good find! 

[Vesku]

7 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Does anyone know why Panasonic has limited its shutter speed to 1/30 in video mode? Here's an interesting video I picked up today... a lot of it was review for me, but I learned one or two things from it that made me rethink how I shoot.

 

Panasonic cameras let you shoot video down to 1/2s shutter speed. You must use M-mode and manual focus. 

Better would be if the camera would automatically go to "slow SS mode" without the need of setting everything to manual.

[Cary Knoop]

8 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Does anyone know why Panasonic has limited its shutter speed to 1/30 in video mode?

 

Think about it, suppose you make a video at 30 frames per second and you use a shutter speed longer than 1/30 of a second. 

You would simply get duplicate frames because there is only time for 1/30 of a second per frame.

 

 

[jase]

2 hours ago, Cary Knoop said:

Think about it, suppose you make a video at 30 frames per second and you use a shutter speed longer than 1/30 of a second. 

You would simply get duplicate frames because there is only time for 1/30 of a second per frame.

Yeah, but there is also 25p (PAL) and 24p... 

[John Matthews]

4 hours ago, Cary Knoop said:

Think about it, suppose you make a video at 30 frames per second and you use a shutter speed longer than 1/30 of a second. 

You would simply get duplicate frames because there is only time for 1/30 of a second per frame.

 

 

Sony's go down to 1/4. Actually, I meant my question to be: why don't Panasonic cameras go down to only 1/25?

6 hours ago, Vesku said:

Panasonic cameras let you shoot video down to 1/2s shutter speed. You must use M-mode and manual focus. 

Better would be if the camera would automatically go to "slow SS mode" without the need of setting everything to manual.

Cool. I didn't know that! Thanks!

[BucksterUK]

this is going to be a bit of a daft question - but the shutter mechanism that "moves all the time" - you hear the "rattle" when moving the camera about

does it do any harm if you go for a long run with it say and its constantly moving around  

my Sigma 30mm on my NEX rattles like its broken until power is applied - like the GX85 body it feels "wrong" even though you know there is no fault

[John Matthews]

2 hours ago, BucksterUK said:

this is going to be a bit of a daft question - but the shutter mechanism that "moves all the time" - you hear the "rattle" when moving the camera about

does it do any harm if you go for a long run with it say and its constantly moving around  

my Sigma 30mm on my NEX rattles like its broken until power is applied - like the GX85 body it feels "wrong" even though you know there is no fault

Get two and you have a nice pair of maracas.