An adventure into the Panasonic GX85/80 begins - and a look at the Leica Nocticron for Micro Four Thirds

[boxtree]

Hi Jase, what strength of Tiffen Filter did you use, and what profile on Filmconvert? As you have certainly found something special with that combo

 

[sgreszcz]

13 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Thanks for sharing that and doing the tests. I'm wondering what conclusions one could make from this about the colors on the GX80? Is it more about ridding the camera of pinkish skin tones (I've seen them in LX100 footage, but not in this vid)... or is more about perfecting and getting it closer to reality? Since you were there, which one was closest to reality?

OK, major disclaimer, besides being an amateur/rookie trying to improve video skills, I'm colourblind so I did this more as a test to compare the colour of several of the cameras I've used.  I have tried to start learning colour, at least to balance it and get skin tones accurate using video scopes.  People also have said that Panasonic colour has been improving with each camera iteration, so I thought that it would be an interesting test before I sell the G7 (sold), Olympus and LX100 cameras.

I have always preferred the Olympus colours as being more "natural" with a much better auto white balance and I've found that especially with the LX100 I've found skin tones going "orangey" and the lips "purple", at least with my compromised eyes.  

Looking at the results with the Apple Digital Colour Meter it seems as though the Panasonic cameras are closer that I would have expected, probably due to the custom colour balancing?

Anyway, I though it would be an interesting learning exercise for me and decided to share.

[Dimitris Stasinos]

9 hours ago, jase said:

this ia due to the tiffen ultra contrast filter. Together with filmconvert this combo really sings, because filmconvert lowers the shadows in such a way that you only need to adjust the highlights and some subtle skintone correction.

Dude!!! Thanks so much for this. I didn't know such a product exists...Except from the shadow lifting which seems wonderful have you noticed any downsides to this filter? Also, which one is yours?

[RWR]

I'm beginning to wonder how how much people are using auto white balance and how much that is influencing impressions of a camera's color science.

[jase]

I use the Tiffen Ultra Contrast 3. keep in mind that those shors are out of camera, so no grading with filmconvert had be applied! I am in the middle of my trip, so i cant give you a graded example.

the filter doesnt really like direct sunlight, the contrast is then really really low, you have to keep that in mind. Personally, i however like the look occasionally. Check out the part with the ferry (1:09) for an example about this sunlight effect in this clip:

I agree with RWR, I learned with Sony cams the hard way that auto white balance does not really work. Now i also found AWB on the GX80 not that good so I dial in my kelvin values. Just use 5600k whenever daylight is available and dial in something in 3000-4000k whenever you have artifical light. Surely not the perfect approach, but for run&gun this works well.

[sanveer]

10 hours ago, jase said:

Standard -5/-5/-5/-5

however as you can see the shadows are far away from being crushed.

this ia due to the tiffen ultra contrast filter. Together with filmconvert this combo really sings, because filmconvert lowers the shadows in such a way that you only need to adjust the highlights and some subtle skintone correction.

I remember you writing on another thread, that you used a Tiffen Ultra Contract Filer. What is the filter strength, and thread size (in mm). Also, what is the film convert feature that you are using? 

Also, which lens have you used? When zooming in, the depth of field seems pretty shallow (not extremely shallow thought). 

[jase]

To sum it up:

Voigtländer 25mm at f1.4-2.0

Tiffen Ultra Contrast 3

Filmconvert GH4 Profile, standard setting. Best results with the FJ Super x400 or KD P400 preset. Yet, those shots dont had any filmconvert applied.

[sanveer]

3 minutes ago, jase said:

To sum it up:

Voigtländer 25mm at f1.4-2.0

Tiffen Ultra Contrast 3

Filmconvert GH4 Profile, standard setting. Best results with the FJ Super x400 or KD P400 preset. Yet, those shots dont had any filmconvert applied.

Thanks Jase. 

[DevonChris]

Quote

I agree with RWR, I learned with Sony cams the hard way that auto white balance does not really work. Now i also found AWB on the GX80 not that good so I dial in my kelvin values. Just use 5600k whenever daylight is available and dial in something in 3000-4000k whenever you have artifical light. Surely not the perfect approach, but for run&gun this works well.

I realised a while back that using AWB was not working well for my Panny GX8 so I carry an x-rite color passport with me and do custom white balances whenever possible. It's made a huge difference to the colours for both photography and video. 

[icarrere]

 

 

11 hours ago, Henry Ciullo said:

had a 1 hour break in weather. Did some more tests with stabilization with kit lens and manual lens. I still need to find a flatter picture profile, I guess I need to read the manual...

coming from 1 year of blackmagic pocket I am not used to having to nail exposure any more

 

At 6:40 I see you with a steady going downstairs, it would be good to give notice.

 

 

[icarrere]

Henry, now I see your explanation in YOutube. Thanks and excuse me if neccesary

[sgreszcz]

On 1 June 2016 at 8:01 PM, A Y said:

Does anyone know of any sample footage SOOC from the GX80 that I can download? I'd like to see if my computer can handle editing 4k files. It's a 2012 Mac Mini with a 2.3GHz 4-core i7 and the built-in video on that CPU in case anyone is using a similar configuration to edit 4k already. Thanks!

I have uploaded a few small original 4k clips here as part of a colour test of the GX80/LX100/G7.  For what it's worth, I use a 2012 Macbook Pro with the same 2.3GHz processor and it can deal with the 4k from my cameras quite well in FCPX with original media (on a 1080p timeline). 

On 1 June 2016 at 3:12 PM, Jan G said:

Hallo all,
I had a holiday in  Greece, and right before I left I could pic up a GX80 in my camera store. I really like the small form factor for travelling. That's al so the reason why I use mainly 4/3 lenses with it.
So for my kind of use its a great little camera.

In the link is a little piece I made with it, no colour grading are post stabilisation.

 

Some nice shots there, it looks like a very authentic place to visit and the colour looks pretty natural.  In particular I enjoyed the night shots - what lens were the with as it seems like you travelled with a suitcase full

9 hours ago, RWR said:

I'm beginning to wonder how how much people are using auto white balance and how much that is influencing impressions of a camera's color science.

I'm starting to agree after my recent colour chart tests where lighting was static and I custom white balanced all the cameras and even the LX100 wasn't that far off the G7/GX80.  On auto white balance the Olympus does much better than the Panasonics, but I have to get into the habit of using Kelvin settings. 

[RWR]

I remember assisting a photog turned videographer. When we moved from inside to outdoors in shade (Fs700 with that tiny LCD) , I held up a sheet of white paper facing lens and he said "What's that for?"

[John Matthews]

19 hours ago, jase said:

Now i also found AWB on the GX80 not that good so I dial in my kelvin values. Just use 5600k whenever daylight is available and dial in something in 3000-4000k whenever you have artifical light. Surely not the perfect approach, but for run&gun this works well.

From what I've learned about white balance in video, AWB is the worst setting because the camera will change it on the fly. I've been told that many directors simply choose "sunny" or "tungsten" depending on the circumstances- that's it. IMO that's the best way to go as these cameras were calibrated this way and it will give consistency across your work as well as making it a super-fast setting to dial in. If you don't like the colors, just adjust them in post. The GX80 offers plenty of room in the 4k files to do this.

[furfoot]

On 2 June 2016 at 9:10 AM, Henry Ciullo said:

had a 1 hour break in weather. Did some more tests with stabilization with kit lens and manual lens. I still need to find a flatter picture profile, I guess I need to read the manual...

coming from 1 year of blackmagic pocket I am not used to having to nail exposure any more

 

What a shame about those focus pulls with the 12-32mm. Loads of hunting and looks totally different to Gordon Laing's touchscreen DFD focus pull video. Still not seen any decent CAF testing with for example face tracking in video with DFD lenses. I know I should be using manual focus but I find it hard to do so with the view finder panasonic uses for the GX7, LX100, GX80 in combination with their peaking options (prefer Sony's).

This is also rather worrying. Seen three videos from different people with this issue.

[Inazuma]

@furfoot I think we all need to accept that CAF just wont be good on these cameras until Panasonic introduces phase detection, which might not ever happen. If you want that then you have to go to Sony or Canon, which each have their own problems. 

Is that wobble issue just with that lens or others as well? I have noticed the kit lens wobbles a lot when held at certain angles. But ive had no problems with non-IS lenses.

[Jan G]

11 hours ago, sgreszcz said:

Some nice shots there, it looks like a very authentic place to visit and the colour looks pretty natural.  In particular I enjoyed the night shots - what lens were the with as it seems like you travelled with a suitcase full

Thanks sgreszcz, its a very nice place to spent a holiday, the night shots I made with the Olympus 45mm f1.8 (1:57-2:17), Olympus 17mm f1.8 (3:06)(3:45-3:58), Panasonic 20mm f1.7 (3:12-3:20)(3:32) Voightlander 25mm f0.95 (3:23-3:30)(3:36), al shots handhold, ibis rules.

It might look like a suitcase full of lenses, but the native M4/3 lenses are so small and light they al fit in a very small bag.

[Jan G]

Some screen shots from my ipad,

Olympus 45mm f1.8

Panasonic 45-200mm

Voightlander 25mm f0.95

Panasonic 20mm f1.7

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TSV]

On 5/27/2016 at 2:22 AM, The Chris said:

Really nice comparison... Still I am not even close to be as stable when walking as you when using my GX7MKII... How do you achieve such movement and fluidity when walking???

[Henry Ciullo]

Inazuma: that type of distortion I have found at the moment only with the 10mm lens. Probably with the kit lens the dual IS compensates better, or maybe it is because of narrower fov.. here is a trip up and down the same stairs using the same handheld rig with the 12-32 kit lens at 12mm.

Regarding the old 14-140 lens, with my previous gh1 and gh2 I always had to turn stabil off if I needed to pan because it would be jerky as hell. With the gx80 it seems to work much better, but I need to test it in the field better.