An adventure into the Panasonic GX85/80 begins - and a look at the Leica Nocticron for Micro Four Thirds

[vovov]

Has anyone tried GX80 with the BM video assist 5inch model? I have been thinking of getting that combo but i´m unsure how well they work together. The idea is to use the VA as a monitor for filming 4K but can the 5inch model even monitor the 4K feed?

The GX80 manual says that there is a setting for adjusting what resolution the HDMI feed is but i´m unsure if this means that the camera is able to do incamera downscale of the 4K to 1080p? It could also be just a setting for playback mode.

 

[sgreszcz]

So Pansonic is already discounting the GX80+12-32 zoom or with double-lens kit by £50 (€70) cash back until September 5: http://promotions.panasonic.co.uk/promotions/promotions/view_terms/133

[Greg Block]

6 hours ago, vovov said:

Has anyone tried GX80 with the BM video assist 5inch model? I have been thinking of getting that combo but i´m unsure how well they work together. The idea is to use the VA as a monitor for filming 4K but can the 5inch model even monitor the 4K feed?

The GX80 manual says that there is a setting for adjusting what resolution the HDMI feed is but i´m unsure if this means that the camera is able to do incamera downscale of the 4K to 1080p? It could also be just a setting for playback mode.

 

Yes I have...the video assist works great with it! You can record simultaneously too. If I record 4k30 in the camera the Video Assist automatically changes to 1080p30.

 

Edit: Added an image of the Video assist in action. Another plus is the focus peaking works better than the internal one.

 

[John Matthews]

4 hours ago, sgreszcz said:

So Pansonic is already discounting the GX80+12-32 zoom or with double-lens kit by £50 (€70) cash back until September 5: http://promotions.panasonic.co.uk/promotions/promotions/view_terms/133

In France, many places still have it on back-order. I wonder if the sales were higher or lower than expected.

[vovov]

Thanks for the info and picture Greg. The setup looks very promising.

What would you say are the cons on this kind of setup? Obviously the hdmi plugin right on the handle is a bit of a bummer for handheld shooting. What about the VA fan, does the camera mic pic up the noise it makes? Also how bad is the fan sound? Some people have complained that their VA makes a high pitch whine that ruins recording in a quieter setting.

[Greg Block]

I was not using audio from the GX85. The fan is audible for sure on the Video Assist, but it wasn't so loud that the lavaliere mic picked it up on the main camera (G7).

 

Like you said handheld is not optimal with the external monitor. I have a small shoulder mount system I use for that.

[John Matthews]

Another review...

 

[vovov]

8 minutes ago, Greg Block said:

I was not using audio from the GX85. The fan is audible for sure on the Video Assist, but it wasn't so loud that the lavaliere mic picked it up on the main camera (G7).

 

Like you said handheld is not optimal with the external monitor. I have a small shoulder mount system I use for that.

Ok, so I assume that the internal mic on the gx85 can't be used if the VA is near the camera as in your pic. Bummer.

i have very little experience with audio setups for video and I wonder what I should do to solve this with the gx85+VA combo. Maybe buy a separate audio recorder like the Olympus LS-P2? But would that also pic up the VA noise if it was in the same rig with it?

 

[fuzzynormal]

39 minutes ago, vovov said:

Ok, so I assume that the internal mic on the gx85 can't be used if the VA is near the camera as in your pic.

How would one use the audio from the GX85 regardless?  It's bad audio.  Good only for a scratch track to guide the sync process in post-production.

The only way to get good audio for any production, from your backyard home movies to the highest level film productions, is to get a mic near your subject.  This is fundamental.

I'm frankly a little surprised that there are people out there that would consider buying and owning loads of production gear to create impressive IQ, but then mount some mic to a camera hot shoe and think that was appropriate...for almost anything at all beside rough ambient noise/room tone.

Yet, all you have to do is watch a few vlogger youtube videos to see this ignorance.  I find it quite staggering because it's so ridiculously obvious a problem to solve.  A crappy mic in the proper place will be better than the most expensive mic in the world set up in the wrong place.

Audio is NOT Video.  You can't buy your way into an easy solution.  You want better IQ on your images?  A better camera/lens can do the trick.  You want better audio?  You better know how sound vibrations actually work --and know how to use that to your advantage.

[John Matthews]

3 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

How would one use the audio from the GX85 regardless?  It's bad audio.  Good only for a scratch track to guide the sync process in post-production.

The only way to get good audio for any production, from your backyard home movies to the highest level film productions, is to get a mic near your subject.  This is fundamental.

I'm frankly a little surprised that there are people out there (I'm not saying you're one of them) that would consider buying and owning loads of production gear that creates impressive IQ, but mount some ridiculous Rhode mic to a camera hot shoe and think that was appropriate...for almost anything at all.

Yet, all you have to do is watch a few vlogger youtube videos to see this ignorance.  It's staggering because it's so ridiculously obvious a problem to solve.  In a crappy mic in the proper place will be better than the most expensive mic in the world set up in the wrong place.

I fully agree. It simply can't be done. The microphone needs to be close to the subject. The first time you do it, you're really surprised how much better the audio is... regardless the microphone. The fact that the GX80's audio can practically only be used for sync FORCES users to do it the right way. In fact, maybe it's a feature.  

[Fredrik Lyhne]

@Greg Block Thanks for sharing the image of your rig! 

I'm thinking about getting a 5" or 7" monitor myself. I'm having a hard time deciding between VS-2 Fine HD, Ikan DH5e or DH7... I didn't think of the HDMI cable positioning as a problem as it's on the left side on my GH4. Here's how my rig could look when I decide which monitor to get. That's a 5" smartphone on top mounted with Shoulder Pod S1 and a ballhead screwed on to a SmallRig handle. I need the handle on the GX85 because of the HDMI is on the left but on the GH4 I won't need it so it can actually be an even smaller setup. 

[fuzzynormal]

Here's a Quick review from someone that owns a GX7, EM5II, GX85 and likes to shoot with manual lenses.  The GX85 has great IQ.  Love the 4k and the colors are an improvement.  Ergos stink.  The EVF is a mess and, for lack of a better word, "terrible."  I would have thought it couldn't be any worse than the GX7, and I was right.  Unfortunately, it's the same.  Yikes.  On the EM5II, the EVF is so clear and clean that a user can actually use it to find manual focus.  It's not viable on my LUMIX cams, and to step backwards from that luxury is a shame.

The body grip of the GX85 is not comfortable (or reassuring in one's hand) and it's actually worse than the GX7 in that regard.

However, exposure controls are easily accessed and exposure monitoring is impressive.

This end-user ergos might not matter to you if you're not shooting a ton of footage, but once you try to get through full day shoots while handholding the GX85, it's something to seriously consider.  For now, the GX85 IQ is so superior to a camera like the EM5II, that it's a worthwhile tradeoff.

But, since the egos are so much better and nicer in the EM5II, at this point I would not hesitate to return to an Olympus camera once they finally adopt 4K.

*sigh* it's never perfect, eh?

[vovov]

35 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

How would one use the audio from the GX85 regardless?  It's bad audio.  Good only for a scratch track to guide the sync process in post-production.

The only way to get good audio for any production, from your backyard home movies to the highest level film productions, is to get a mic near your subject.  This is fundamental.

I'm frankly a little surprised that there are people out there that would consider buying and owning loads of production gear to create impressive IQ, but then mount some mic to a camera hot shoe and think that was appropriate...for almost anything at all beside rough ambient noise/room tone.

Yet, all you have to do is watch a few vlogger youtube videos to see this ignorance.  I find it quite staggering because it's so ridiculously obvious a problem to solve.  A crappy mic in the proper place will be better than the most expensive mic in the world set up in the wrong place.

Audio is NOT Video.  You can't buy your way into an easy solution.  You want better IQ on your images?  A better camera/lens can do the trick.  You want better audio?  You better know how sound vibrations actually work --and know how to use that to your advantage.

How nice of you. 

[sgreszcz]

10 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Here's a Quick review from someone that owns a GX7, EM5II, GX85 and likes to shoot with manual lenses. 

I was trying to figure out how I can assign a one-touch zoom magnification (PIP or full) to a function button using manual lenses (no electronic coupling) on my GX80 and the only way  I could do it was to set the button to select focus area then hit the menu button to zoom in.  With electronic lenses switching to manual mode or using the manual focus ring pops into the zoom focus assist automatically.  It is probably something simple, but I'm overlooking something.

10 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

 

Ergos stink.  The EVF is a mess and, for lack of a better word, "terrible."  I would have thought it couldn't be any worse than the GX7, and I was right.  Unfortunately, it's the same.  Yikes.  On the EM5II, the EVF is so clear and clean that a user can actually use it to find manual focus.  It's not viable on my LUMIX cams, and to step backwards from that luxury is a shame.

Yes, I miss the EM-5II viewfinder...  and photography features like "live time".  I might pick up a used or refurbished EM-10ii for that as the video quality and EVF should be the same as the E-M5ii without the "flat" mode.

[fuzzynormal]

5 minutes ago, sgreszcz said:

the only way  I could do it was to set the button to select focus area then hit the menu button to zoom in.

Same.  Pretty sure we're limited when using "dumb" lenses.

[John Matthews]

18 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Here's a Quick review from someone that owns a GX7, EM5II, GX85 and likes to shoot with manual lenses.  The GX85 has great IQ.  Love the 4k and the colors are an improvement.  Ergos stink.  The EVF is a mess and, for lack of a better word, "terrible."  I would have thought it couldn't be any worse than the GX7, and I was right.  Unfortunately, it's the same.  Yikes.  On the EM5II, the EVF is so clear and clean that a user can actually use it to find manual focus.  It's not viable on my LUMIX cams, and to step backwards from that luxury is a shame.

The body grip of the GX85 is not comfortable (or reassuring in one's hand) and it's actually worse than the GX7 in that regard.

However, exposure controls are easily accessed and exposure monitoring is impressive.

This end-user ergos might not matter to you if you're not shooting a ton of footage, but once you try to get through full day shoots while handholding the GX85, it's something to seriously consider.  For now, the GX85 IQ is so superior to a camera like the EM5II, that it's a worthwhile tradeoff.

But, since the egos are so much better and nicer in the EM5II, at this point I would not hesitate to return to an Olympus camera once they finally adopt 4K.

*sigh* it's never perfect, eh?

So to sum up: ergonomics and EVF... I agree that those might be its weak points. I feel it's quite a step up from a GX7 though... So many more features than the GX7. For me, the GX7 had one MAJOR annoying thing: the placement of the grip-side camera strap. For that reason alone, I wanted the GX80 and I would easily change the grip size for that. Also, the GX7 looked strange when you have the popup flash out and the EVF up- Frankenstein camera!  Why didn't you just sell the EM5II and get the G7? Seems like it would have been a better fit for you.

[fuzzynormal]

20 minutes ago, vovov said:

How nice of you. 

Hey, if you want to use a remote mic mounted on your camera as you're 10 feet away from your subject, go for it.  I'm not calling you out specifically.  All I'm saying is that many people doing these online videos don't seem to comprehend how sound recording works.  

I certainly don't know why.  As I say, it's a fundamental thing to know and it's the easiest thing in the world.  Put your mic as close to the subject as possible.

Ta da.  It's like freaking magic.  You now have better audio.

9 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

Why didn't you just sell the EM5II and get the G7? Seems like it would have been a better fit for you.

5-axis.  Killer feature.  The GX85's 4K IQ and 5-axis; hard to beat that performance of the GX85.  And the price is a great value.  Still, it's not a perfect camera for me.  I like it alot, don't love it.  As I say, if Oly made a EM5II with 4K, I'd be there in a second.

Or, if/when Panasonic makes something similar... Great EVF, mic input with audio monitoring, super comfortable and useful battery grip...

As I say, it's always something, aint it? 

[vovov]

19 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Hey, if you want to use a remote mic mounted on your camera as you're 10 feet away from your subject, go for it.  I'm not calling you out specifically.  All I'm saying is that many people doing these online videos don't seem to comprehend how sound recording works.  

I certainly don't know why.  As I say, it's a fundamental thing to know and it's the easiest thing in the world.  Put your mic as close to the subject as possible.

Ta da.  It's like freaking magic.  You now have better audio.

You are even still doing it. Instead of writing a bashing of 100 words you could have just commented on the Oly recorder suggestion, recommended something if it's shit and added that if you can, put the recorder on the subject. 

Ta da. A lot more helpful and freaking nice.

[fuzzynormal]

43 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

ergonomics and EVF... I agree that those might be its weak points. 

Yeah, a work around it to use a loupe, which I am, but that increase the size of the rig and the stuff to carry around, so a really good EVF (such as what's on the EM5II) would have been wonderful on the GX85.

11 minutes ago, vovov said:

You are even still doing it. Instead of writing a bashing of 100 words you could have just commented on the Oly recorder suggestion, recommended something if it's shit and added that if you can, put the recorder on the subject. 

Ta da. A lot more helpful and freaking nice.

Don't take it personal.  You're just a proxy for a subject that's a big peeve of mine.  I figure, when it comes to an issue like this, cut to the chase.  I'm assuming we're all grownups here and can handle a little brusque, and hopefully constructive, criticism?  Also, what you suggest is a "how" solution, but it's more important to understand the "why" of it all.

[vovov]

12 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Don't take it personal.  You're just a proxy for a subject that's a big peeve of mine.  I figure, when it comes to an issue like this, cut to the chase.  I'm assuming we're all grownups here and can handle a little brusque, and hopefully constructive, criticism?

Yes, grownups. Just saying look how much Greg helped with just a few short words.