An adventure into the Panasonic GX85/80 begins - and a look at the Leica Nocticron for Micro Four Thirds

[John Matthews]

5 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Yeah, a work around it to use a loupe, which I am, but that increase the size of the rig and the stuff to carry around, so a really good EVF (such as what's on the EM5II) would have been wonderful on the GX85.

I'm not sure an EVF like on the EM5II is actually technically possible. Gordon Laing was talking about that on the About the Gear episode for the GX80. Space being the primary concern... maybe that hump is there for a reason, even with an EVF? I don't see the color-tearing problems that some talk about. All I see is a great way to frame behind tons of useful information like a histogram and zebras. Is the image great? No. Is it God-awful bad? No. I'd say it goes with GX80's nature- really practical. IMO this camera was really meant for shooting with the LCD primarily- it's fantastic, even in bright sunlight. It has a fantastic touch screen- one of the best in the business. Top it off with several customisable buttons and I'm quite happy with the interface and handling. Comparing it to the A6300 and the RX100, I definitely prefer the GX80. Again, not perfect, but good enough for me considering its size.

[fuzzynormal]

6 minutes ago, vovov said:

Yes, grownups. Just saying look how much Greg helped with just a few short words. 

We all relate to the world differently, eh?  I'll still argue that knowing the why of an issue (even from a grumpy old cuss like me) is more important than being offered a subjective solution.  That way you can figure out an answer that works for your specific problem.  After all, it's your problem and you have the best insight on the nuances of it.

12 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

I'm not sure an EVF like on the EM5II is actually technically possible... not perfect, but good enough for me considering its size.

Agreed.  I do like the camera as well.  But it's hard to step down from a really good EVF like the EM5II.

[vovov]

44 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

We all relate to the world differently, eh?  I'll still argue that knowing the why of an issue (even from a grumpy old cuss like me) is more important than being offered a subjective solution.  That way you can figure out an answer that works for your specific problem.  After all, it's your problem and you have the best insight on the nuances of it.

Ok I see now. The point was lost from the start, because my problem is that I need the mic on the rig because I can't put it on the subject. And specificly the question was can I even do that with the VA humming in the rig. You just derailed the whole discussion with the "why" rant that was never needed. I know that a singer should have the mic by her mouth and not up her... 

But it's all good. Except that now I have already missed half of the Ger-Pol football game. I'm off...

[fuzzynormal]

3 hours ago, sgreszcz said:

 set the button to select focus area then hit the menu button to zoom in.

Luckily, we're both wrong on our previous assumption!  And it's very simple:  Just push the shutter adjustment wheel and the camera does the "punch-in."  Pull your focus and half press the shutter release to pop back out to full screen.  Easy and nice.

BTW, near as can figure at the moment, this only works when a dumb lens is on the mount.

[sgreszcz]

1 hour ago, fuzzynormal said:

Luckily, we're both wrong on our previous assumption!  And it's very simple:  Just push the shutter adjustment wheel and the camera does the "punch-in."  Pull your focus and half press the shutter release to pop back out to full screen.  Easy and nice.

BTW, near as can figure at the moment, this only works when a dumb lens is on the mount.

Yes, I should really rtfm as there are probably lots of features I'm missing. The exposure dial pressed toggles between pip focus magnification and full screen magnification which is cool. The magnification square can be moved around using the touch screen. Cool. 

I think with electronic lenses you get exposure controls when pressed, but I need to test it tomorrow. At least this frees up a function button.

http://***URL removed***/forums/thread/3587178

 

[Inazuma]

Still, you can't magnify during recording.

I really like the minimalist look of this camera but it annoys me the the grip is not rubberised and that there's hardly anything there. The EVF is nice actually having come from a £3600 camera.. this one's EVF is actually better. But there is hardly any depth at all so in bright sunlight you still need to cover the side of your head to see it. Of course I could get the G7 and these two nitpicks would be solved. Maybe I will. 

[mechanicalEYE]

 

[Hal]

17 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

Luckily, we're both wrong on our previous assumption!  And it's very simple:  Just push the shutter adjustment wheel and the camera does the "punch-in."  Pull your focus and half press the shutter release to pop back out to full screen.  Easy and nice.

BTW, near as can figure at the moment, this only works when a dumb lens is on the mount.

I believe the same rear dial push to toggle magnification between PIP and full screen works for any lens when you are in MF mode. The only difference is that with native Micro Four Thirds AF lenses, you activate the magnification feature by turning the focus ring on the lens (assuming that you have the Menu properly set for AF+MF) and then once the magnified view is active, pushing the rear dial toggles between the PIP and full screen views. You use the same shutter half press maneuver to leave magnified view.

I've only had my GX85 for a few days, but I'm quickly growing to love it. Yes, my dearly departed EM5 II was a sexier piece of of gear and had the feel in hand to match the good looks. But I personally find the form and function of the Panasonic cameras to be superior from an ergonomic standpoint. Yes, the GX85 grip is a slight step back from the GX7, but it is completely fine and comfortable. The EVF is not cutting edge, but again it is completely fine and comfortable (and yes, I do perceive of the rainbow tearing effect and it doesn't really bother me). But overall, the speed and ease with which I can adjust my focus point, my magnified view, the lens FOV setting for the IBIS, etc. are all far superior to my old Olympus.

Thanks to everyone on the forum for sharing your feedback on the GX85. It helped convince me that it was a good move to replace my EM5 II with the GX85 for its run/gun stills/video capabilities. I found a great condition, sub 400 shutter count EM5 Mark I to have my OMD fix (same stills quality for a fraction of the cost).

[sgreszcz]

39 minutes ago, Hal said:

I believe the same rear dial push to toggle magnification between PIP and full screen works for any lens when you are in MF mode. The only difference is that with native Micro Four Thirds AF lenses, you activate the magnification feature by turning the focus ring on the lens (assuming that you have the Menu properly set for AF+MF) and then once the magnified view is active, pushing the rear dial toggles between the PIP and full screen views. You use the same shutter half press maneuver to leave magnified view.

A double-tap on the focus box on the LCD also puts it in PIP focus zoom mode which is handy too.

39 minutes ago, Hal said:

Thanks to everyone on the forum for sharing your feedback on the GX85. It helped convince me that it was a good move to replace my EM5 II with the GX85 for its run/gun stills/video capabilities. I found a great condition, sub 400 shutter count EM5 Mark I to have my OMD fix (same stills quality for a fraction of the cost).

Going to do the same with a used E-M10ii in the future...

[omnilink]

Anyd idea of the crop factor in 4K ?

I'm struggling to find any information about that, i read 2.2x crop factor.

[John Matthews]

15 minutes ago, omnilink said:

Anyd idea of the crop factor in 4K ?

I'm struggling to find any information about that, i read 2.2x crop factor.

I think that's about right. 2.22 times crop from 35mm.  

[fuzzynormal]

Experimenting with the GX85.  Shooting under sub-optimal conditions.  Bright mid-day light, hard shadows, etc.  Cheap Chinese speedbooster with a 55mm f1.2 FD lens, B&W 64x ND, and a Tiffen circular polarizer.  Neutral color profile -5 -5 -5 -5.  Most shots @f2.

Here's source footage straight from the cam:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/694tsb6iwy5y6um/AABOcE_3WUiCMY18xyOuTLEaa/GX85?dl=0

[fuzzynormal]

2 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

Here's source footage straight from the cam:

All handheld of course.  Shot with way too much caffeine in my system, had the shakes a bit.  Also, trying to manually focus using the LCD in bright daylight.  Pretty challenging, but really just trying to shoot at an extreme to see what would or would not happen or what I could or could not handle.

[DevonChris]

On 13/06/2016 at 8:02 PM, Inazuma said:

Footage with the default settings on this camera looks great, if a little clinical. 

I have been toying around with the settings whilst comparing it to the nikon d5500. It seems to me that the best way to get a slightly more filmic and nicer look is to use the following:

Natural 0 / -5 / -5 / -2 (cont, sharp, nr, sat). -2 highlights. No iDynamic. And whitebalance adjustment set to A3 G3.

With this setting, greenery looks less digital green and has more of a warm tint to it like film. And skin tones veer less towards the red and again has a warmer appearance (without looking yellowy like with GH4 stuff). 

 

I know this quote from Inazuma was a few weeks ago, but it is very good advice.

I have been extensively testing various profile settings for my GX8 using an x-rite passport and resolve.

In short I have made these findings :

1) Natural profile gives the best skin tones and overall accuracy of colours, but with too much saturation, particularly in the red channel

2) Standard just seems to add saturation to the base level natural profile -> Not so good

3) There is no point in Cinelike D as natural profile has more accurate colours and I could not detect any significantly increased DR

4) There is no need to de-saturate to -5 unless you want that for artistic reasons. -2 for saturation is optimal to reduce the Panny over saturated reds and give more accurate overall colour rendition.

5) I agree with Inazuma that Natural 0, -5, -5, -2 gives the best results so far, and that is what I will be using from now on, but testing will continue.....

[fuzzynormal]

1 hour ago, DevonChris said:

testing will continue.....

Natural Color Profile: 0,-5,-5,-2.

Indoor shots with a 55mm FD lens, Chinese Speedbooster, no filters.

Stabilizer set to 40mm

Highlights set to -2

White Balance Adjust A:3 G:3 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sqfycip8z52s3z9/AADEWeIG1R1i1hUObtrLGlrea?dl=0

[DevonChris]

37 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Natural Color Profile: 0,-5,-5,-2.

Indoor shots with a 55mm FD lens, Chinese Speedbooster, no filters.

Stabilizer set to 40mm

Highlights set to -2

White Balance Adjust A:3 G:3 

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sqfycip8z52s3z9/AADEWeIG1R1i1hUObtrLGlrea?dl=0

Very nice. You're nailing it with this set up

From my testing, I was surprised that:

1. The Panasonic colours are actually accurate once that red channel is tamed.
2. White balance is very accurate when you do a manual WB using a grey card.

I'm intrigued that you use a WB adjust. Is that a permanent setting or did you use those values just for that shoot?

I think people who complain about Panny colours are probably not using WB properly or haven't spent time learning the nuances of their camera. 

 

[fuzzynormal]

1 hour ago, DevonChris said:

I'm intrigued that you use a WB adjust. Is that a permanent setting or did you use those values just for that shoot?

I just rolled off those shots with that Inazuma setting-suggestion.  FWIW, I didn't set the white balance.  It was on auto white balance.  I'll experiment more manual Kelvin as well as presets.

[John Matthews]

4 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

It was on auto white balance.

That was a mistake, right? Haven't tried this, but I'm certain you'd get inconsistent results doing so.

[fuzzynormal]

12 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

That was a mistake, right? Haven't tried this, but I'm certain you'd get inconsistent results doing so.

No.  It was on purpose.  For instance, Sony and Olympus cameras tend to drift a lot when under AWB. I wanted to see how consistent the GX85 was or was not.  Experimenting at the moment, not doing "real" shots.

[John Matthews]

16 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Experimenting at the moment, not doing "real" shots.

Ok. I get it.

Just to give some of my experience with it... I've noticed that the blue channel seems rather noisy in the shadows (nothing like my old RX100 though). Red channel seems to evoke a sort of blurring/glowing effect. Green, as always, is a champion. If someone could tell me how to get the best results from these channels, it'd be very helpful. I was planning on doing some tests myself this week. I think one of the most difficult things to do with 8-bit signals is to get accurate memory colors (like skin) in shadowy areas. So far, I've been using the standard profile with reasonable results.