An adventure into the Panasonic GX85/80 begins - and a look at the Leica Nocticron for Micro Four Thirds

[Mattias Burling]

How exactly would it correct for moire and why would it be lens depended? Any where to read about it?

[Hanriverprod]

 

distortion from the stabilization?

[John Matthews]

59 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

How exactly would it correct for moire and why would it be lens depended? Any where to read about it?

When Panasonic took out the AA filter, their software engineers supposedly made corrections through their jpeg engine for moiré as it was a concern. I read about that in several of the preliminary reviews on the GX80. In one of the reviews (https://www.ephotozine.com/article/panasonic-lumix-gx80-gx85-review-29143/performance) I found an image with moiré problems and it had been taken with an Olympus lens. I'm assuming that the Panasonic software turns on all these corrections for Panasonic lenses and it's not a selective process. For example, I use a Panasonic 15mm Leica lens and its software will compensate for the 6% distortion of that lens (and all of its other problems). However, it won't turn on for other non-Panasonic lenses as there are not any entries in its database for corrections to be made.

[Mattias Burling]

Thanks for the link. Couldnt find it mentioned anywhere on the first read through. Will look again.

[John Matthews]

35 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Thanks for the link. Couldnt find it mentioned anywhere on the first read through. Will look again.

imaging-resource.com says this:

Quote

It's quite interesting to see the lack of an optical low-pass filter making its way to more and more general-use cameras, rather than pricier, higher-resolution professional-level niche models. According to Panasonic, the Venus Engine image processor inside the GX85 has been specifically designed to help combat moiré, false color and other aliasing artifacts, however, we'll know more about how effective it is once we begin testing a production-level camera.

ephotozine.com says this:

Quote

The camera has a Panasonic Venus Engine image processor designed to get the best out of the GX80 sensor. The sensor is the same as that used in the GX7, but with the low-pass filter removed resolution is improved, as well as colour reproduction. To avoid false colour (moire) which can occur when the low-pass filter has been removed, the camera has built-in moire suppression, so that there is both the benefit of improved resolution, as well as reduced false colour.

The previous link was to this picture:

You'll notice moiré on her right sleeve... taken with a non-Panasonic lens.

[leeys]

2 hours ago, John Matthews said:

I only asked because the GX80 does a lot of corrections (distortion, vignetting, moiré, etc.) with Panasonic lenses but not with other manufacturer's lenses (Olympus, or any manual lens). In this case, it looks as though the frequency hit just right for moiré to happen. If the person backed up 1 meter or came closer by a meter, I bet it wouldn't have happened.

M43 spec includes corrections to geometric distortion and vignetting. The unique corrections for Panasonic are done to chromatic aberration. I don't recall anything for moire, but that may be new.

[John Matthews]

43 minutes ago, leeys said:

M43 spec includes corrections to geometric distortion and vignetting. The unique corrections for Panasonic are done to chromatic aberration. I don't recall anything for moire, but that may be new.

Does that include ALL M43 lenses, including the Samyang 12mm F2? I suppose it's hard to know exactly what Panasonic is doing with the Venus engine, but according to sources, it corrects for moiré in software. If that is linked to the lens, I'm not 100% sure. As you say, CA correction is not, but other M43 lenses have a minimum of correction being applied. The question is: in a given scene with moiré, will a Panasonic lens perform better than a non-Panasonic lens?

[gethin]

well I think they were a bit conservative with their moire suppression   THe d5500 on the other hand is a lot softer than the d5300, presumably softened to reduce moire as it too lacks an AA filter (and I think the 5300 had one). THe stills from the d5500 are fantastic.  THe video, not so.  I'm very much wanting a grown up video camera at this point.  My rx100iv is the closest thing I've got to being usable in all modes, but its usability is also poor. I wish blackmagic would do something with its sensor.  

[John Matthews]

3 hours ago, gethin said:

well I think they were a bit conservative with their moire suppression   THe d5500 on the other hand is a lot softer than the d5300, presumably softened to reduce moire as it too lacks an AA filter (and I think the 5300 had one). THe stills from the d5500 are fantastic.  THe video, not so.  I'm very much wanting a grown up video camera at this point.  My rx100iv is the closest thing I've got to being usable in all modes, but its usability is also poor. I wish blackmagic would do something with its sensor.  

It sounds like you might be more interested in a dedicated video camera. Honestly, I don't see enough moiré in 4k to warrant any real concerns for the GX80. Yeah, it happens... I've seen it happen on pro cameras too. At the end of the day, most cameras have a frequency where they'll exhibit some sort of moiré. The GX80 is "good enough" for the amount I spent on it... I still have yet to see moiré on the stuff I film. However, I'd like to understand more about what the Venus engine is doing.

[leeys]

6 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Does that include ALL M43 lenses, including the Samyang 12mm F2? I suppose it's hard to know exactly what Panasonic is doing with the Venus engine, but according to sources, it corrects for moiré in software. If that is linked to the lens, I'm not 100% sure. As you say, CA correction is not, but other M43 lenses have a minimum of correction being applied. The question is: in a given scene with moiré, will a Panasonic lens perform better than a non-Panasonic lens?

Isn't the Samyang a dumb mount? Then no, there will be no software corrections applied.

I suppose with other players like Yi entering the market, it may muddy the waters. No idea if the lenses will play properly with the m4/3 standard.

[John Matthews]

Caught Max Yuryev comparing the GX85, Fuji Xt2, 5dIV, and A6300... all of which are the hot cameras right now (especially the A6300 )... a nice video considering low-light, detail, and DR. The GX85 fairs well, especially at its price point.

 

[Josh8191]

Hi, I just bought the gx85 today. this is a huge step up from my last 'camera' which was a gopro 4 silver! Anyways, I have a few questions to ask, hopefully someone can answer them. What settings/colour profile will work best for shooting an 'interview' style video outdoors? Also is there any particular combination of settings that are a 'go to' setup. In other words, what settings should I default to if I'm not sure what to use. The last question at the moment is to do with the focusing - I am using only the kit 12-32 mm lens, and was wondering if someone could explain the different auto and manual focus settings. There seems to be a couple different modes, like AFS and AFC, but I'm not exactly sure what they do. Thanks to anyone who takes the time to read this!

[sanveer]

Though I bought the GX80 1-2 months back, I didn't really get to use it until yesterday cause I was travelling.

Quite a seriously impressive little camera. I wish they didn't act so stupid by not putting a ($5) mic socket and not having Cineline V and D. The price difference between this and the G80 isn't really big considering the weather sealing, the magnesium front, slightly quieter shutter, 3 times faster buffer and the kit lens. If all those are considered the GX80 may be overpriced. And if they incorporate the 8-bit 4-2-2 internal recording, it would be stupid.

The kit lens is actually pretty sharp. Maybe as sharp as many of the primes. Though having a faster prime is a necessity. I wish there were a lot more choices for fast glass (f1.2 and faster). I love night street video and photography. A lot of cities really come alive at night. 

Panasonic should incorporate the Cinlike profiles, the Saving Mode and the Focus Bracketing in the firmware update, and not merely focus bracketing.

I found the grip a little ackward and uncomfortable at first. It takes a while getting used to. Though, overall, I actually like the range-finder kind of body and semi-articulating screen. They make the camera less conspicuous. I could put the camera on a wall right next to a cop, tilting the screen upwards, and he wouldn't know he's part of a guerilla shoot. 

 

[IronFilm]

On 9/22/2016 at 4:52 PM, Hanriverprod said:

 

Is YT user "orange42" you? As I recognise that footage as being in New Zealand! :-D Local to where I am. 

[Hanriverprod]

35 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Is YT user "orange42" you? As I recognise that footage as being in New Zealand! :-D Local to where I am. 

Nope, I'm in South Korea. I'd like to shoot in New Zealand though. How's the indie scene there? Any of that Tolkien money trickle down to smaller productions?

[John Matthews]

9 hours ago, sanveer said:

Quite a seriously impressive little camera. I wish they didn't act so stupid by not putting a ($5) mic socket and not having Cineline V and D. The price difference between this and the G80 isn't really big considering the weather sealing, the magnesium front, slightly quieter shutter, 3 times faster buffer and the kit lens. If all those are considered the GX80 may be overpriced. And if they incorporate the 8-bit 4-2-2 internal recording, it would be stupid.

You make some good points and I agree that Panasonic was stupid for the most part in some of their exclusions, but the GX80 is significantly smaller than the G7. The G85 is expected to be even a few millimeters bigger all the way around (128.4 x 89.0 x 74.3 mm). The GX80 is also about 80 grams lighter... just saying because size matters with M43; otherwise, we might all be shooting something different.

[sanveer]

1 hour ago, John Matthews said:

You make some good points and I agree that Panasonic was stupid for the most part in some of their exclusions, but the GX80 is significantly smaller than the G7. The G85 is expected to be even a few millimeters bigger all the way around (128.4 x 89.0 x 74.3 mm). The GX80 is also about 80 grams lighter... just saying because size matters with M43; otherwise, we might all be shooting something different.

True. It is seriously pocketable. Most jacket pockets could easily accommodate one. I guess it's similar in size to the LX100. That can't be said about the G7 or G80/85. Especially with the kit lens.

I like the Mitakon 25mm f.95 lens despite some of the strange reviews. It has that characteristics of one of those old minolta (was it Minolta?) lenses that Mattias Burling (I hope that was him) mentioned, about having a lot of flare pointed at direct sunlight, and thus softer image due to the coating. Almost like a natural ultra contrast built-in.

Also, like I mentioned, some cities have so much character at night. They literally come alive then. 

[Cinegain]

Yeah, the GX80 is lovely in size! Here next to the LX100:

But... the G80 sounds more like a pre-GH5. A little crowdwarmer. I think it's quite convincing offering the best of the G7 and the GX80, making it a nice allround tool (making up for some lacking features of the GX80). But of course the GH5 will have some tricks up its sleeve to pull ahead quite a bit and up the productivity. While the E-M1 mark II sounds like it will be a dream for hybrid shooting with stills focus and casual video shooting.

Agree on the Mitakon. I happen to like some character and flaws as well... not that there's something wrong with clinically sharp perfect bokeh lenses either. But it paints the picture differently which might just be what the situation demands.

[Fredrik Lyhne]

Is anyone shooting on their GX85 and have some videos to show?

I finally got a workflow that I am very happy with. It may not be the most interesting video for you guys but please have a look and tell me how what you think about the colors? 

It was shot in standard 0, -5, -5, 0 with only natural light and reflectors. The edit was done in FCPX using Color Finale. 

 

[Mark Holmes]

Nice work Fredrik - I love the colors of the GX85 - it seems that Panasonic finally got their colors right with this generation of cameras. I had sold all my GH bodies but luckily held onto the best Lumix lenses and am now glad I did. Very happy with my GX85 and looking forward to picking up a GH5 next year. Fredrik - one question - what kind of lights did you use?