An adventure into the Panasonic GX85/80 begins - and a look at the Leica Nocticron for Micro Four Thirds

[tupp]

On 9/25/2016 at 6:37 AM, Cinegain said:

Yeah, the GX80 is lovely in size! Here next to the LX100:

The GX80/85 is a great camera, but look at the size of the glass on the LX100 compared to that of the kit lens on the GX80/85.  That is one fast, super-sharp honking piece of Leica glass!

 

I might get the LX100 just for the lens.

[Cinegain]

40 minutes ago, tupp said:

The GX80/85 is a great camera, but look at the size of the glass on the LX100 compared to that of the kit lens on the GX80/85.  That is one fast, super-sharp honking piece of Leica glass!

 

I might get the LX100 just for the lens.

Yeah! It just takes it all in! It's pretty dang sweet. It's the go-grab camera and I love the basic style with the dials and rings. There's something pure and fuzzless about it. It's pretty solid up to ISO1250 (but there's noise at lower levels already, that's really where the G7 and GX80 stepped up the game). Yet... no live feed out over HDMI, would've loved an articulated touchscreen... audio is a tough one. But yeah, as with all cameras, there's things it is and things it isn't.

The kitlens of the GX80, as seen on the GM-line, is a weird one, I was already trying to make it turn when I was like 'oh shit, it's a zoomring only', it's so weird. xD Not sure you would keep it on there all the time unless you need the sleek profile and zoom flexibility. I think it's more fun with a ZY Optics/Zhongyi/Mitakon 25mm f/0.95, Lumix 20mm f/1.7, 42.5mm f/1.7 (OIS) or something like that. Think the Leica 15mm f/1.7 would be a great go-to lens for it (still eyeballing that one hard!).

[Fredrik Lyhne]

1 hour ago, Mark Holmes said:

Nice work Fredrik - I love the colors of the GX85 - it seems that Panasonic finally got their colors right with this generation of cameras. I had sold all my GH bodies but luckily held onto the best Lumix lenses and am now glad I did. Very happy with my GX85 and looking forward to picking up a GH5 next year. Fredrik - one question - what kind of lights did you use?

Thanks! Yeah, the color definitely seems to be improved. Waiting for the GH5 myself. I really miss the ergonomics of the GH4. 

I used window lights with 2 x 110 cm round reflectors. I have big windows on the left and waited until the sun had passed, between 12:00 - 16:00. So basically just indirect window light with reflectors. One of the great things about the GX85 is that you can underexpose by a little and adjust contrast in post to achieve better colors and DR without getting any noise on low ISO. With the GH4 I easily got noise in the shadows in my dark kitchen, so it's really refreshing being able to shoot underexposed clean images and pull it up in post. 

@Cinegain The Leica 15mm f/1.7 is really nice on the GX85

[tosvus]

Anyone know how the G80/85 will compare to the gx80/85 for video? Trying to decide which camera to get next. With the image stabilization being such an important feature, I think either (if similar otherwise) are good candidates rather than waiting for a gh5 which likely will cost much more.

[Fredrik Lyhne]

23 minutes ago, tosvus said:

Anyone know how the G80/85 will compare to the gx80/85 for video? Trying to decide which camera to get next. With the image stabilization being such an important feature, I think either (if similar otherwise) are good candidates rather than waiting for a gh5 which likely will cost much more.

I think it's the same video quality. If I could choose now I would definitely get the new G85 because of the ergonomics, bigger evf, mic jac, articulating screen, better battery life, optional battery grip, Cine D/V, etc. Especially if you don't need/want the GH5. But if size is important the image seems to be the same. I believe frame rates and bit rates are identical as well, but not 100 % sure. 

Informative video about the G85:

 

[tosvus]

Thanks Fredrik! Yes, then I am definitely leaning towards the G80/85.

[mercer]

I just came across a clip I shot with the GX85 a couple months back and every time I've seen it, I am really blown away by this camera. I've been trying to go all in with Canon and invest in their glass so I can use  DPAF, but then every time I watch a clip from this little beast, I get more confused. 

 

[EyeSoul]

@Fredrik Lyhne colors look good to me,nice work. I was also wondering what lenses were used as well as max ISO?

[Fredrik Lyhne]

10 hours ago, EyeSoul said:

@Fredrik Lyhne colors look good to me,nice work. I was also wondering what lenses were used as well as max ISO?

Thanks. I used the 12-35mm X and ISO was 200 if I remember correctly, maybe 400 on a few shots. 

@mercer I've been meaning to ask you about the GX85 vs XC10 now that you have used both for a while. I take your latest as post as it's pretty close with Panny's new color science? How does the DR compare?  

[mercer]

10 minutes ago, Fredrik Lyhne said:

Thanks. I used the 12-35mm X and ISO was 200 if I remember correctly, maybe 400 on a few shots. 

@mercer I've been meaning to ask you about the GX85 vs XC10 now that you have used both for a while. I take your latest as post as it's pretty close with Panny's new color science? How does the DR compare?  

No, it's not close at all. The XC10 wins in every category except for shallow depth of field. The XC10 is a professional camera. The 1080p in  it is almost as good as the 4K in the GX85. I actually like it more. But I do like lenses and there is just something really cool about using small c-mount and m4/3 lenses with 5-Axis ibis. My $20 Cosmicar 25mm and my $80 Sigma 19mm just work brilliantly with that camera.

I am definitely going all in with Canon. I just need to decide if it's worth keeping a $600 camera for specific projects that can benefit from the specific look and footprint the GX85 offers.

[Thpriest]

4 minutes ago, mercer said:

No, it's not close at all. The XC10 wins in every category except for shallow depth of field. The XC10 is a professional camera. The 1080p in  it is almost as good as the 4K in the GX85. I actually like it more. But I do like lenses and there is just something really cool about using small c-mount and m4/3 lenses with 5-Axis ibis. My $20 Cosmicar 25mm and my $80 Sigma 19mm just work brilliantly with that camera.

I am definitely going all in with Canon. I just need to decide if it's worth keeping a $600 camera for specific projects that can benefit from the specific look and footprint the GX85 offers.

Even low light?

I mean the XC10 at f2.8 out performs the GX85 at f1.7 in lowlight?

[mercer]

Just now, Thpriest said:

Even low light?

Okay, you got me. For me low light isn't really an issue because I light my interiors. I rarely go over ISO 800 on any camera. I have tested the XC10 at higher ISOs and it's clean up to 1600, usable up to 3200. The GX85, with a fast lens, is clean up to 800, in normal household lighting, I haven't tested beyond that.

The XC10 is a different beast, In day lit exteriors, I just set the lens to 5.6 and ride the ND filter. Or if I'm tracking an actor I will ride the exposure wheel, which is cool because it is stepless and you can get smooth exposure transitions as you move in and out of varying light conditions. 

[Thpriest]

Coming from the C100 which I can use up to 8000 iso without too much noise I have found the GX85 to struggle in lowlight even with a fast 1.7 lens. 1600 is ok but 3200 is borderline and 6400 quite horrid.

I've been looking for a smaller lighter camera to use when filming weddings and lower budget run and gun projects as the C100 can get quite heavy when using it all day. I had been thinking about the possibility of a lightweight GX85 and GH5 (if it turns out as everyone hopes) combo for weddings along with fast lenses (I have the panny 25 1.7 and 42.5 1.7 as well as SLR magic 12 T1.6) but even with these lenses the cameras seem to struggle with noise. I know the Sony a7s would be a good choice but it would be too expensive to jump to sony at the moment as I always take 2 cameras to live events.

It's a tough choice!

[mercer]

1 minute ago, Thpriest said:

Coming from the C100 which I can use up to 8000 iso without too much noise I have found the GX85 to struggle in lowlight even with a fast 1.7 lens. 1600 is ok but 3200 is borderline and 6400 quite horrid.

I've been looking for a smaller lighter camera to use when filming weddings and lower budget run and gun projects as the C100 can get quite heavy when using it all day. I had been thinking about the possibility of a lightweight GX85 and GH5 (if it turns out as everyone hopes) combo for weddings along with fast lenses (I have the panny 25 1.7 and 42.5 1.7 as well as SLR magic 12 T1.6) but even with these lenses the cameras seem to struggle with noise. I know the Sony a7s would be a good choice but it would be too expensive to jump to sony at the moment as I always take 2 cameras to live events.

It's a tough choice!

Didn't know you have a C100. Why would you want any other camera? No, I get it. I can imagine live events is a lot different than narratives. I've just been so happy with C-Log and what a basic correction/grade can accomplish. Where the XC10 shines is with its 5-Axis in 1080p and its 4K... As you probably already know, it's the same 4K quality that's in the C300 and it really is amazing. 

[mercer]

But it seems with Panasonic's newly tweaked color science, and a simple dose of FilmConvert, the GX85 is a very capable camera.

I have to make some equipment decisions within the next week or two, so I am planning on taking out the XC10 and the GX85 one day next week and do some side by sides. If there is anything specific you would like me to test, then let me know. 

I  tend to underexpose my footage by about a stop as I have found for my lack of color skills, I get better results. Btw, how do you expose C-Log?

Also, I'm not sure if you would consider a traditional small sensor camcorder, but the Canon HF-G40 is a neat little beast with a 1.8 lens, Wide DR picture profile, focus peaking, zebras, 5-Axis IS. I would imagine it could be a great B-cam to a C100 if you shoot Wide DR.

[Thpriest]

The C100 is a fantastic camera with a great image but lugging it about with a set of lenses and batteries for a live event is tiring.

I use wdr  as it suits my needs. I haven't used Clog as it hasn't been necessary. I used to have a G30 (I think it was a G30!) as well as a 700D but they just don't work cutting with a C100. The XC10 appeals as it should cut a whole lot better with the C100 but I worry about low light and DOF.

To see a few tests of how the GX85 and the XC10 compare would be most interesting. Testing colours, IBIS and iso limits would be very interesting for me and many others in the same boat. Both in HD and 4k. What are the limits for both cameras.

Thanks!

[Fredrik Lyhne]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

No, it's not close at all. The XC10 wins in every category except for shallow depth of field. The XC10 is a professional camera. The 1080p in  it is almost as good as the 4K in the GX85. I actually like it more. But I do like lenses and there is just something really cool about using small c-mount and m4/3 lenses with 5-Axis ibis. My $20 Cosmicar 25mm and my $80 Sigma 19mm just work brilliantly with that camera.

I am definitely going all in with Canon. I just need to decide if it's worth keeping a $600 camera for specific projects that can benefit from the specific look and footprint the GX85 offers.

Judging by your latest video posted here and for example videos from Jase and Javier Lopes (Abandon) it seems pretty close to me in terms of image, but I haven't tried the XC10 off course  

Would love to see some side by side comparisons! Be sure to post them here. 

[mercer]

11 minutes ago, Thpriest said:

The C100 is a fantastic camera with a great image but lugging it about with a set of lenses and batteries for a live event is tiring.

I use wdr  as it suits my needs. I haven't used Clog as it hasn't been necessary. I used to have a G30 (I think it was a G30!) as well as a 700D but they just don't work cutting with a C100. The XC10 appeals as it should cut a whole lot better with the C100 but I worry about low light and DOF.

To see a few tests of how the GX85 and the XC10 compare would be most interesting. Testing colours, IBIS and iso limits would be very interesting for me and many others in the same boat. Both in HD and 4k. What are the limits for both cameras.

Thanks!

Are you in the states, because BH has a great return policy, so you could test the G40 with its WideDR and see how it matches, and if it doesn't you have 30 days to return it.

My issue is I have about a dozen ideas for short films. Each one has its own production needs, so the GX85 would be perfect for one or two of my smaller shorts that requires its small, anonymous footprint and shallow depth.

But my real issue is I have a large collection of vintage lenses with my Minolta and Nikkor lenses being my favorites. If I do go all in with Canon, I can use my Nikkor lenses, but my Minoltas will be without a camera home. So I am really hesitant selling the GX85 for that reason alone as well. I also love using c-mount lenses with it.

Here's a screengrab from the GX85 with an old Meopta 20mm C-Mount lens...

 

[Thpriest]

I'm in Spain and returns don't work so well here (although officially you have 2 weeks).

[mercer]

18 minutes ago, Fredrik Lyhne said:

Judging by your latest video posted here and for example videos from Jase and Javier Lopes (Abandon) it seems pretty close to me in terms of image, but I haven't tried the XC10 off course  

Would love to see some side by side comparisons! Be sure to post them here. 

Thanks for putting my video in such good company but I think there are better examples than mine that show off the quality the GX85 delivers. Your latest video, for example, looks brilliant. You are a very good colorist with the way you make the GX85's video image look so organic and film-like.

It truly is a great camera and a comparison to the XC10 isn't really fair on so many levels, except that they are cameras I own. If I wasn't so hell bent on having a camera to intercut close ups with my XC10 footage, specifically using Canon's DPAF, I would definitely keep the GX85. But with my recent Canon 35mm f2 lens purchase, I am compelled to use it with a DPAF capable camera, so it looks like an 80D is in my future.

Then the question will become, do I need to keep the GX85, or do I just want to. If I can find a use for it, I will be happy to keep it.