An adventure into the Panasonic GX85/80 begins - and a look at the Leica Nocticron for Micro Four Thirds

[kidzrevil]

I figured out a lot about the panasonic color science this week. I started shooting at various exposures after reading the recommended exposure for cinelike d was -1/2 (panasonic white papers). I shot a bunch of exposures and noticed once you go +2/3 and beyond there is an actual shift in color. The camera responds best at -1 to -2/3 a stop underexposed. A 0 exposure is the limit before you get the weird panasonic color shifts due to how their gamma curve is setup. There is no real "knee" in their gamma response curves so areas of intense exposure loses saturation and shifts in color. I have been shooting with natural with -2 saturation with exceptional results. Im going to try -3 next and see how it looks

in summary -1 to -2/3 underexposed gives the best results with the lowest ISO's possible. 800 iso is my max

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-bXJQJcWYkVSnZ0VWFvMGU2ZzA

[jonpais]

41 minutes ago, kidzrevil said:

I figured out a lot about the panasonic color science this week. I started shooting at various exposures after reading the recommended exposure for cinelike d was -1/2 (panasonic white papers). I shot a bunch of exposures and noticed once you go +2/3 and beyond there is an actual shift in color. The camera responds best at -1 to -2/3 a stop underexposed. A 0 exposure is the limit before you get the weird panasonic color shifts due to how their gamma curve is setup. There is no real "knee" in their gamma response curves so areas of intense exposure loses saturation and shifts in color. I have been shooting with natural with -2 saturation with exceptional results. Im going to try -3 next and see how it looks

in summary -1 to -2/3 underexposed gives the best results with the lowest ISO's possible. 800 iso is my max

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-bXJQJcWYkVSnZ0VWFvMGU2ZzA

It's great to see you doing your own testing. So many are looking for the magical best settings for their cameras, but the best way is for them to test themselves. Go out and shoot one day with different saturation levels, another at different contrast settings and so on. 

[Yuan]

1 hour ago, kidzrevil said:

I figured out a lot about the panasonic color science this week. I started shooting at various exposures after reading the recommended exposure for cinelike d was -1/2 (panasonic white papers). I shot a bunch of exposures and noticed once you go +2/3 and beyond there is an actual shift in color. The camera responds best at -1 to -2/3 a stop underexposed. A 0 exposure is the limit before you get the weird panasonic color shifts due to how their gamma curve is setup. There is no real "knee" in their gamma response curves so areas of intense exposure loses saturation and shifts in color. I have been shooting with natural with -2 saturation with exceptional results. Im going to try -3 next and see how it looks

in summary -1 to -2/3 underexposed gives the best results with the lowest ISO's possible. 800 iso is my max

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-bXJQJcWYkVSnZ0VWFvMGU2ZzA

 

Thanks for this insight, do you have any test footage by any chance? I'm really curious to see how it looks as a video. Besides -2 on saturation, do you change any of the other settings?

I've been experimenting as well and I haven't gotten to a place that I'm completely happy with. So far, I'm at to +1 on standard, +/-2 shadows/highlights, noise reducation all the way down and -3 for sharpening.

[kidzrevil]

3 hours ago, jonpais said:

It's great to see you doing your own testing. So many are looking for the magical best settings for their cameras, but the best way is for them to test themselves. Go out and shoot one day with different saturation levels, another at different contrast settings and so on. 

Exactly ! There are so many different factors to what determines the output of a cameras inage that you have to test yourself ! There are no magic bullet settings ?

[jase]

On 6. November 2016 at 8:22 AM, Cinegain said:

Yeah, looking at the footage shot, it doesn't look like the gear is holding you back from the actual experience. The camera is just casually there, sorta speak. But the Sigma is a beast, true in performance as well, but the size and weight is not to be underestimated. I'd only really use it in combination with a cage/rig/tripod (and indeed boosted). But if you think it's manageable for you, then by all means! 

This! Now, after being on a trip and using it for some time i have to admit that it lacks joy using it. Way too front heavy, you just cant handhold it with the GX80. Spec-wise and performance-wise it is awesome, even the AF is totally usable. But I now learned the hard way that body and lens should be a good match, at least for run&gun. Good that I have my Pana 20mm with me.

[alanpoiuyt]

Misread  jase's profile settings and did Standard / -5 Contrast instead of everything -5 EXCEPT Contrast

 

[jonpais]

6 hours ago, jase said:

This! Now, after being on a trip and using it for some time i have to admit that it lacks joy using it. Way too front heavy, you just cant handhold it with the GX80. Spec-wise and performance-wise it is awesome, even the AF is totally usable. But I now learned the hard way that body and lens should be a good match, at least for run&gun. Good that I have my Pana 20mm with me.

I only shot with the Sigma a few times, and I must say, the results were amazing. But this is precisely why I've been recommending fast primes like the Olympus 75mm f/1.8 and Sigma 30mm f/1.4 DC DN - putting APS-C or full frame glass on a tiny body like the GX85 just spoils all the fun of having a compact camera that shoots better video than many of the professional cameras I see crews using here for broadcast television. 

[John Matthews]

Just thought I'd let people know that there's a new firmware available: version 1.2. It can be found here:

http://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/global/cs/dsc/download/fts/dl/gx80_gx85.html

I just did it and it seems to work so far- so that's good. It says the fixes were:

1. Reduced operation noise during the shooting standby or the motion picture recording.
2. Fixed a problem that camera fails to connect to the Picmate server.

I'll be testing it soon.

[John Matthews]

First impression is that it seems significantly quieter. Not sure what they did in firmware to manage that. Can someone else also confirm? I wish now that I'd recorded the audio from it before the update, but that would be my initial report.

[AMJ]

Tested the new firmware with the 100-300mm and the stabilisation options are greyed out now - performs much worse than previously. No way to roll back unfortunately. Much more jittery than before but maybe only with these longer lenses.

[John Matthews]

38 minutes ago, AMJ said:

Tested the new firmware with the 100-300mm and the stabilisation options are greyed out now - performs much worse than previously. No way to roll back unfortunately. Much more jittery than before but maybe only with these longer lenses.

Hmm... what options are you talking about? Have you made sure that it's actually on? I don't have that lens, but I'd be surprised that Panasonic would degrade its IBIS. Also, you might try disconnecting the lens and putting it back on... Did you also make sure your firmware for the lens is up-to-date?... just some thoughts...

[AMJ]

54 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

Hmm... what options are you talking about? Have you made sure that it's actually on? I don't have that lens, but I'd be surprised that Panasonic would degrade its IBIS. Also, you might try disconnecting the lens and putting it back on... Did you also make sure your firmware for the lens is up-to-date?... just some thoughts...

Lens is firmware version 1.2 and it was working fine yesterday until I updated the body firmware this morning. Unfortunately can't do a before and after test to show the difference - hopefully someone else can confirm this.

[John Matthews]

1 minute ago, AMJ said:

Lens is firmware version 1.2 and it was working fine yesterday until I updated the body firmware this morning. Unfortunately can't do a before and after test to show the difference - hopefully someone else can confirm this.

I don't have a dual-IS lens, and I'm not sure your lens is compatible. I tried a manual lens at 210mm and it didn't perform badly (no jitters); so, I'm not sure what's going on for you...

[markr041]

4 hours ago, AMJ said:

Tested the new firmware with the 100-300mm and the stabilisation options are greyed out now - performs much worse than previously. No way to roll back unfortunately. Much more jittery than before but maybe only with these longer lenses.

The Lumix 100-300mm is NOT compatible with dual IBIS. This lens will not be firmware upgraded by Panasonic to make it so. The new camera firmware has no effect whatsoever on the performance of this lens. Just use its OIS

[AMJ]

1 hour ago, markr041 said:

The Lumix 100-300mm is NOT compatible with dual IBIS. This lens will not be firmware upgraded by Panasonic to make it so. The new camera firmware has no effect whatsoever on the performance of this lens. Just use its OIS

I didn't say dual IS. Something has changed since the update that has made it a lot worse stabilisation-wise (only this lens). I had a gh4 before this so I know how the lens handles without in-body stabilistion. Maybe they changed the stabilistion algorithm or something hence the reduction in noise.

[markr041]

2 hours ago, AMJ said:

I didn't say dual IS. Something has changed since the update that has made it a lot worse stabilisation-wise (only this lens). I had a gh4 before this so I know how the lens handles without in-body stabilistion. Maybe they changed the stabilistion algorithm or something hence the reduction in noise.

The point is that the lens and only the lens mechanically (OIS) provides all the stabilization (not dual), so how can a change in camera firmware affect the stabilization of the 100-300mm lens? I have the same lens and the upgraded GX85, and I do not observe any change in stabilization. for this lens

[fuzzynormal]

FWIW, and it may not be germane to the above conversation, but I've had the sensor image stabilizer get "stuck" on my GX85 a few times.  Just putting that out there.  Keep an eye on that possibility with these cameras regardless.

[markr041]

1 minute ago, fuzzynormal said:

FWIW, and it may not be germane to the above conversation, but I've had the sensor image stabilizer get "stuck" on my GX85 a few times.  Just putting that out there.  Keep an eye on that possibility with these cameras regardless.

That is useful to be aware of. But for lenses like the 100-300mm Lumix, which do not work well with IBIS, IBIS should simply be turned off and OIS on (note: IBIS on all cameras is less effective than lens OIS at higher focal lengths)..

[fuzzynormal]

14 minutes ago, markr041 said:

That is useful to be aware of. But for lenses like the 100-300mm Lumix, which do not work well with IBIS, IBIS should simply be turned off and OIS on (note: IBIS on all cameras is less effective than lens OIS at higher focal lengths)..

I'd actually recommend checking and testing both ways before deciding which way to go.  I've shoot the Lumix 100-300 on an EM5, and found that I liked the stabilization more from the body, so I turned off the lens stabilization.  Was able to shoot video at a 600mm focal length (equivalent) effectively; had to really brace myself and lock it in, but it worked well enough.

[AMJ]

11 hours ago, markr041 said:

The point is that the lens and only the lens mechanically (OIS) provides all the stabilization (not dual), so how can a change in camera firmware affect the stabilization of the 100-300mm lens? I have the same lens and the upgraded GX85, and I do not observe any change in stabilization. for this lens

It was not purely OIS in the previous firmware - it was definitely being stabilised by the body to some degree (not dual IS ofc) as it was much better than on the GH4. It appears they have switched this off with this update - won't matter to most people as its probably only this lens.