An adventure into the Panasonic GX85/80 begins - and a look at the Leica Nocticron for Micro Four Thirds

[Thpriest]

VladsaysF, the only drawback with GX85 is the bad sound. Otherwise it's great value.

[jonpais]

4 hours ago, Thpriest said:

VladsaysF, the only drawback with GX85 is the bad sound. Otherwise it's great value.

I wouldn't depend on the G85's built-in microphone either though. ? Or is the preamp worse as well?

[webrunner5]

9 hours ago, jonpais said:

Yes, but no IBIS. ?

Oh I could easily give up IBIS for Waveform Monitor, Vector Scope, Anamorphic modes, a Headphone jack, unlimited time recording, better battery life, I could go on. The GH4 is pretty much a dedicated Video tool. Nothing like it for the money Anywhere. If he wants to learn Video I can't see a better tool to do it for the money.

I think the Vast majority of videos by a long shot are taken on a Tripod or a Monopod. And the IOS in the lenses do help a lot hand held which all work on a GH4. For casual video, photography I would say sure the G85 works, but not as a total learning tool to learn the craft of Video like a GH4 can do.

How many people on here even have a Video camera that has IBIS in it? I would bet less than 20%. I think it is a bit over rated for just doing video. They do sell gimbals for cameras.  That flying stuff gets pretty old pretty quick. I have 2 different Gimbals that have not been used in over 6 months that I paid big money for.  I used the hell out of them when I first got them. It looks sort of unnatural, and it is. I guess if you want to follow someone, or walk backwards all day it does help LoL.

I am not arguing that a G85 is not a great camera, it is, so is my G7, but to learn Video from scratch, I will take a GH4 any day of the week to learn all the ins and outs of making films, long or short.

[jonpais]

8 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Oh I could easily give up IBIS for Waveform Monitor, Vector Scope, Anamorphic modes, a Headphone jack, unlimited time recording, better battery life, I could go on. The GH4 is pretty much a dedicated Video tool. Nothing like it for the money Anywhere. If he wants to learn Video I can't see a better tool to do it for the money.

I think the Vast majority of videos by a long shot are taken on a Tripod or a Monopod. And the IOS in the lenses do help a lot hand held which all work on a GH4. For casual video, photography I would say sure the G85 works, but not as a total learning tool to learn the craft of Video like a GH4 can do.

How many people on here even have a Video camera that has IBIS in it? I would bet less than 20%. I think it is a bit over rated for just doing video. They do sell gimbals for cameras.  That flying stuff gets pretty old pretty quick. I have 2 different Gimbals that have not been used in over 6 months that I paid big money for.  I used the hell out of them when I first got them. It looks sort of unnatural, and it is. I guess if you want to follow someone, or walk backwards all day it does help LoL.

I have a feeling your post is going to generate a lot of feedback. ?

[webrunner5]

9 minutes ago, jonpais said:

I have a feeling your post is going to generate a lot of feedback. ?

I would hope the hell so. This is to help this guy that has come on here for advice, on what camera HE should buy, to learn video.  Not what we like. You can't tell me with a straight face that a G85 is a better camera for video than the GH4. No way in hell it is. There is really nothing lacking in a GH4. It was the best Video camera Panasonic had until 2 weeks ago. I doubt it is crap this week. To have him buy a G85 JUST because it has IBIS, wow that is a great reason versus a GH4.

I would even recommend a Sony A6300 over a Panasonic G85.

[jase]

I would hope the hell so. This is to help this guy that has come on here for advice, on what camera HE should buy, to learn video.  Not what we like. You can't tell me with a straight face that a G85 is a better camera for video than the GH4. No way in hell it is. There is really nothing lacking in a GH4. It was the best Video camera Panasonic had until 2 weeks ago. I doubt it is crap this week. To have him buy a G85 JUST because it has IBIS, wow that is a great reason versus a GH4.

I would even recommend a Sony A6300 over a Panasonic G85.

I wont start picking here, everybody as he or she likes. However I doubt that you need all those features of the GH4 to "learn video". How do you define to "learn video" anyway? Did I not "learn video" because I did not have a GH4 and used all of its functionality but merely a GM1 and a GX80? Does this make my work less good?

On the one hand you are saying basically that @jonpais is not right with his G85 recommendation because no one needs IBIS to "learn video" - yet on the other hand you practically tell him what he MUST have (vector scope, yadda yadda) to learn the craft. Seems to me like you are putting YOUR vision of how to learn video on him, the very same thing you didnt like in jonpais' statement. In the very same moment you encourage him to buy the GH4, which again is just your opinion - why is it any better than our opinions? Sounds weird to me, no offense.

It always depends on what you need. @vladsaysF just need to think about what kind of work he wants to do and then pick the right camera, end of story.

[Fredrik Lyhne]

7 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I would hope the hell so. This is to help this guy that has come on here for advice, on what camera HE should buy, to learn video.  Not what we like. You can't tell me with a straight face that a G85 is a better camera for video than the GH4. No way in hell it is. There is really nothing lacking in a GH4. It was the best Video camera Panasonic had until 2 weeks ago. I doubt it is crap this week. To have him buy a G85 JUST because it has IBIS, wow that is a great reason versus a GH4.

I would even recommend a Sony A6300 over a Panasonic G85.

Have you used the new Panasonic cameras, GX85, G85, GH5? 

I agree with @jase and @jonpais that the G85 is the best budget camera out there for beginners. The GH4 has a lot of great features but I think it's easier to get good results with the newer models. It's not just about IBIS.

[Fritz Pierre]

40 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Oh I could easily give up IBIS for Waveform Monitor, Vector Scope, Anamorphic modes, a Headphone jack, unlimited time recording, better battery life, I could go on. The GH4 is pretty much a dedicated Video tool. Nothing like it for the money Anywhere. If he wants to learn Video I can't see a better tool to do it for the money.

I think the Vast majority of videos by a long shot are taken on a Tripod or a Monopod. And the IOS in the lenses do help a lot hand held which all work on a GH4. For casual video, photography I would say sure the G85 works, but not as a total learning tool to learn the craft of Video like a GH4 can do.

How many people on here even have a Video camera that has IBIS in it? I would bet less than 20%. I think it is a bit over rated for just doing video. They do sell gimbals for cameras.  That flying stuff gets pretty old pretty quick. I have 2 different Gimbals that have not been used in over 6 months that I paid big money for.  I used the hell out of them when I first got them. It looks sort of unnatural, and it is. I guess if you want to follow someone, or walk backwards all day it does help LoL.

I am not arguing that a G85 is not a great camera, it is, so is my G7, but to learn Video from scratch, I will take a GH4 any day of the week to learn all the ins and outs of making films, long or short.

I think for what you can spend on a new GH4 now...as a video camera it's pretty hard to beat...and as I've stated before...I don't believe in moving the camera a lot...IMO "movement" comes from the edit....keeping things dynamic...proper clip length etc....so I have to agree with you on this choice...especially about flying gimbals and it getting old...I remember when the Movi came out that was going to be the final word in camera movement...I have yet to see a single gimbal shot that even remotely approaches the skill of a good dolly grip or if following a runner or someone a good steadycam operator...there really are no shortcuts to excellence...but the GH4 can probably be bought on EBay for about 700 to 800$...at that price, it has a long learning curve for someone to learn film making from the standpoint of the camera.

[webrunner5]

Yeah but I bet a lot of you guys have it on Full Auto. That is not how you learn video. You Have to learn Waveform Monitors, Vector Scopes, Auto nothing to say you have Any handle on being great at video.

Hell this is not about EASY, this is about him learning how to operate a Video camera. You think my AF100 is easy, a FS5, F55, Arri Alexa, A BM Ursa, etc. is EASY to get what you want. Hell no it is not. They are Hard as hell to do it. And I mean really hard.

But when you learn how to use all the Tools they have you get what You want not what Panasonic, Sony, BM, Arri wants. You learn in sticky situations how to adjust things to overcome it. You learn by looking at the Waveform Monitor, Vector Scope that something IS wrong, and guess what, you can change it..

You want this new guy to just buy a damn video camera that you put on Auto to make a video because it is Easy. Wow. He won't learn shit.

[jonpais]

4 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah but I bet a lot of you guys have it on Full Auto. That is not how you learn video. You Have to learn Waveform Monitors, Vector Scopes, Auto nothing to say you have Any handle on being great at video.

Hell this is not about EASY, this is about him learning how to operate a Video camera. You think my AF100 is easy, a FS5, F55, Arri Alexa, A BM Ursa, etc. is EASY to get what you want. Hell no it is not. They are Hard as hell to do it. And I mean really hard.

But when you learn how to use all the Tools they have you get what You want not what Panasonic, Sony, BM, Arri wants. You learn in sticky situations how to adjust things to overcome it. You learn by looking at the Waveform Monitor, Vector Scope that something IS wrong, and guess what, you can change it..

You want this new guy to just buy a damn video camera that you put on Auto to make a video because it is Easy. Wow. He won't learn shit.

But the GH4 doesn't have a wave form monitor or vector scope, that's the GH5... And I can't speak for everyone, but I shoot full manual. Always. The G85 is easy to use, but nobody is saying it shoots video by itself. I'm still learning every day I shoot.

[Fritz Pierre]

3 minutes ago, jonpais said:

But the GH4 doesn't have a wave form monitor or vector scope, that's the GH5... And I can't speak for everyone, but I shoot full manual. Always. The G85 is easy to use, but nobody is saying it shoots video by itself. I'm still learning every day I shoot.

The only camera I've owned with IS was the HVX 200...so I have yet to really understand the freedom you can get with handheld on the G85, and when I get mine, the GH5...you produce beautiful stuff, but I imagine you paid your dues learning the fundamentals a long time ago to come up with this stuff...of course, as you stated, you shoot everything in manual anyway...and the GH4 new is still over $200 more than the G85 which I've never owned, but seems to produce even better images under certain conditions than a GH4....I record strictly to external in 10bit Prores so my needs are different...

[Fredrik Lyhne]

9 minutes ago, Fritz Pierre said:

I think for what you can spend on a new GH4 now...as a video camera it's pretty hard to beat...and as I've stated before...I don't believe in moving the camera a lot...IMO "movement" comes from the edit....keeping things dynamic...proper clip length etc....so I have to agree with you on this choice...especially about flying gimbals and it getting old...I remember when the Movi came out that was going to be the final word in camera movement...I have yet to see a single gimbal shot that even remotely approaches the skill of a good dolly grip or if following a runner or someone a good steadycam operator...there really are no shortcuts to excellence...but the GH4 can probably be bought on EBay for about 700 to 800$...at that price, it has a long learning curve for someone to learn film making from the standpoint of the camera.

Yeah, but you shoot v-log right, probably to an external recorder? GH4 is a great camera for someone who knows how to use it. With my experience with both GH4/GH5 and GX85 I would recommend the G85 to a beginner, but GH4 is also a good choice. A lot's of people overdo the IBIS thing, but if you use it like @jonpais it's a very useful tool. 

15 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah but I bet a lot of you guys have it on Full Auto. That is not how you learn video. You Have to learn Waveform Monitors, Vector Scopes, Auto nothing to say you have Any handle on being great at video.

Hell this is not about EASY, this is about him learning how to operate a Video camera. You think my AF100 is easy, a FS5, F55, Arri Alexa, A BM Ursa, etc. is EASY to get what you want. Hell no it is not. They are Hard as hell to do it. And I mean really hard.

But when you learn how to use all the Tools they have you get what You want not what Panasonic, Sony, BM, Arri wants. You learn in sticky situations how to adjust things to overcome it. You learn by looking at the Waveform Monitor, Vector Scope that something IS wrong, and guess what, you can change it..

You want this new guy to just buy a damn video camera that you put on Auto to make a video because it is Easy. Wow. He won't learn shit.

And I bet you haven't used the any of the new Panasonic cameras, am I right? 

Yes, it is about easy. People shoot with expensive cameras because it's the easiest way to get the best image they can.

I also shoot full manual btw.

[jase]

23 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah but I bet a lot of you guys have it on Full Auto. That is not how you learn video. You Have to learn Waveform Monitors, Vector Scopes, Auto nothing to say you have Any handle on being great at video.

Hell this is not about EASY, this is about him learning how to operate a Video camera. You think my AF100 is easy, a FS5, F55, Arri Alexa, A BM Ursa, etc. is EASY to get what you want. Hell no it is not. They are Hard as hell to do it. And I mean really hard.

But when you learn how to use all the Tools they have you get what You want not what Panasonic, Sony, BM, Arri wants. You learn in sticky situations how to adjust things to overcome it. You learn by looking at the Waveform Monitor, Vector Scope that something IS wrong, and guess what, you can change it..

You want this new guy to just buy a damn video camera that you put on Auto to make a video because it is Easy. Wow. He won't learn shit.

Sorry, but please point me (/us) to the quotes where the guy said he wants to learn video the way YOU understand video? Again, please quote where we (who?) said we want him to go full auto? And you know that you can use the GH4 in full auto, the same way you can do it with any other Panasonic from the GXXX lines?

IF you read his request again (which I did after being astonished over your "me vs. the world" rant), he didnt say anywhere explicitly that he wants to know / use vector scopes and whichever handy tools exist (which in fact he should, if he wants to achieve his goal, to be clear!). However what he stated is that he liked stabilization - in fact that is why he is asking his question within the GX80 thread. 

[webrunner5]

I am not talking full auto like F stops or Shutter speed, that has Nothing to do with changing anything video related. I guess I won't recommend a GH4  now. I guess it doesn't have a Waveform Monitor, a Vector Scope. So it is lacking the tools you Need to learn what a video camera really is. How they can work to your advantage when you have access to Knee adjustments, Black Balance on and on.

I guess he will end up with a Panasonic G.. something and take the easy way out. And he will take good video, but not Great video. And he will be at the mercy of the camera, not doing what he really wants, but hey it is not too bad OOC.

Heck buy a early Panasonic AF100 for 600 bucks and have a camera that he Can learn on. It will look like shit for months, but he will learn how to make it sing in the long run.

My last comment on the subject.

[Fredrik Lyhne]

2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

My last comment on the subject.

Good.

[webrunner5]

So you want vladsaysF to just buy a camera, put it on full auto and think he, as he admits in his post, knows basically nothing about video, and expect him to learn how to get pretty good at it, or even Great at it. Well maybe that IS all he wants. And then he should just go out and buy a GX80 and take OK, pretty good video and be happy. You are probably right, but I will be disappointed that he will be Just another P&S style video operator. Not the worse thing in the world, tons of people like that. But I don't think this forum is like that, and he should try for the best output, not just, ehh, a output.

Surely we are on here to get damn good at video, not just, well, average.

[Fredrik Lyhne]

1 minute ago, webrunner5 said:

So you want vladsaysF to just buy a camera, put it on full auto and think he, as he admits in his post, knows basically nothing about video, and expect him to learn how to get pretty good at it, or even Great at it. Well maybe that IS all he wants. And then he should just go out and buy a GX80 and take OK, pretty good video and be happy. You are probably right, but I will be disappointed that he will be Just another P&S style video operator. Not the worse thing in the world, tons of people like that. But I don't think this forum is like that, and he should try for the best output, not just, ehh, a output.

Surely we are on here to get damn good at video, not just, well, average.

What on earth are you talking about?

[webrunner5]

2 minutes ago, Fredrik Lyhne said:

What on earth are you talking about?

If you don't have a clue well what can I say. I will say nothing. I know it will make you very happy. so that's it. I am done on here. This is turning into a DPR thread.

[Fredrik Lyhne]

2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

If you don't have a clue well what can I say. I will say nothing. I know it will make you very happy. so that's it. I am done on here. This is turning into a DPR thread.

You're making stuff up and putting words in our mouths. Understandable that you would run. 

The G85 is basically a stripped down GH4 with some improvements like better color science (easier to grade), lower noise levels and IBIS to name a few. Tell me exactly how that means we're telling him to shoot full auto?

It would be damn nice if you could enlighten us!

[jase]

20 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

So you want vladsaysF to just buy a camera, put it on full auto and think he, as he admits in his post, knows basically nothing about video, and expect him to learn how to get pretty good at it, or even Great at it. Well maybe that IS all he wants. And then he should just go out and buy a GX80 and take OK, pretty good video and be happy. You are probably right, but I will be disappointed that he will be Just another P&S style video operator. Not the worse thing in the world, tons of people like that. But I don't think this forum is like that, and he should try for the best output, not just, ehh, a output.

Surely we are on here to get damn good at video, not just, well, average.

I could repeat my self and ask you again where anyone in this thread said he should go full auto. Again, I could repeat myself and ask you why the G85 is a P&S in your opinion and a GH4 is not, but you know what? This here:

13 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

If you don't have a clue well what can I say. I will say nothing. I know it will make you very happy. so that's it. I am done on here. This is turning into a DPR thread.

is really some sad stuff here. You come in here, start a rant, throwing arguments, then in fact you start to discredit people that dont do video the way you seem to think is the only way to do it and finally you finish by putting us on the DPR level where in fact you are the one rants about stuff no one said nor argued about. I dont see any sense in arguing with you about this, but I really want to express that this thingy here makes me quite sad and really dismantles this thread which is such an invaluable source of information for those particular cameras.