An adventure into the Panasonic GX85/80 begins - and a look at the Leica Nocticron for Micro Four Thirds

[John Matthews]

VICTORY! Fist EOSHD thread to make it to 200,000 views! A true testament to the popularity of the GX80/85! Still using mine on a daily basis.

[Hene1]

How do you attach GX80/85 to tripod? I can't fit the GX80 to Manfrotto tripods when using Olympus 7-14 2.8 Pro. Makes the camera a little bit useless.

[John Matthews]

On 19/05/2017 at 8:03 AM, livingcolor said:

I use either Natural or Portrait profile dialed to -3, -5, -5, -5 -- either profile gives me a pretty gradable image in Premiere. I also set -5 on the highlights, but leave shadows at 0. I really wish we had the Cinelike-d profile that the G7 and other Pana cameras get as that profile does show to have more shadow data (there's a good video sample on youtube showing GX85 Natural vs G7 Cine-d where you can clearly see more detail in shadows of a tree/bushes). I feel that Pana really arbitrarily ripped that profile out of this camera without a good reason (other than to perhaps move more people to buy the G85?

I haven't messed too much with the highlights and shadows. IMO, when shooting 4k, you've got a lot to play with. With settings, I'll say it depends mainly on your liking. I CAN tell you they can mess up the image in some situations- notably, contrast at -5 in soft light will not do justice to some people's skin. I did that once. After learning that, I don't fidget too much anymore. Mine are -2, -5, -5, 0 and nothing to the highlights and shadows. Also, I use AWB. The G85 seems like a great camera, but I'd still prefer the GX80 due to size.

 

On 19/05/2017 at 8:03 AM, livingcolor said:

My biggest gripe with the handling of this camera is the annoying strap mounts, especially the one on right side, which presses against the middle of my finger whenever I am holding the camera. I almost want to cut that thing off entirely (I removed the annoying little strap clips already).

Panasonic actually moved the strap mounts further forward from the GX7 (on the right side). This was a major improvement. Still, I'd rather have an inset strap mount, flush with rest.

3 minutes ago, Hene1 said:

How do you attach GX80/85 to tripod? I can't fit the GX80 to Manfrotto tripods when using Olympus 7-14 2.8 Pro. Makes the camera a little bit useless.

"Useless" is a strong word, but you're right that I'd say this camera was made for smaller lens/camera combos. There aren't any adapters out there to raise the body off the attachment plate that don't protrude under the lens mount?

[jonpais]

On 5/19/2017 at 1:03 PM, livingcolor said:

I spent about 3 hours reading through a good portion of this fantastic thread...

John, after reading the many posts and seeing your video clips, I feel like I know you! thank you for the awesome contributions.

I wanted to share my settings and thoughts about the camera as I recently purchased it.

I use either Natural or Portrait profile dialed to -3, -5, -5, -5 -- either profile gives me a pretty gradable image in Premiere. I also set -5 on the highlights, but leave shadows at 0. I really wish we had the Cinelike-d profile that the G7 and other Pana cameras get as that profile does show to have more shadow data (there's a good video sample on youtube showing GX85 Natural vs G7 Cine-d where you can clearly see more detail in shadows of a tree/bushes). I feel that Pana really arbitrarily ripped that profile out of this camera without a good reason (other than to perhaps move more people to buy the G85?

I use the Zoom H1 for audio and that is the best solution so I don't even complain about no mic input ... the evf is better than no evf, but is far from good, so i find myself using the screen on the back most of the time.

I currently have the 25mm f1.7 and kit 12-32mm, but am thinking about the 15mm f1.7 as another lens to get. This is my first m43 camera and I chose it over the A6300 (used to have the old NEX-6 at one point and moved away from the NEX/E-mount series due to handling issues). I am not a big fan of the image noise at higher ISOs... Fuji has spoiled me on that front... but it aint that bad.

My biggest gripe with the handling of this camera is the annoying strap mounts, especially the one on right side, which presses against the middle of my finger whenever I am holding the camera. I almost want to cut that thing off entirely (I removed the annoying little strap clips already).

Anyway, great camera overall, I've been very happy with it, especially the video, which is why I purchased it in the first place.

Pretty much my feelings exactly, concerning the lack of Cinelike D. It was only when I started shooting Cinelike D with my G85 that I felt the DR range of the Lumix was beginning to approach that of my X-T2. The lack of a microphone input is another thing as well. The Zoom is a good workaround, but it's nice to be able to plug a Rodelink directly into the G85. For those in the market for a new midrange mirrorless, I'd still highly recommend the G85 for those reasons, as well as for the fully articulating screen. 

[studiodc]

3 hours ago, Hene1 said:

How do you attach GX80/85 to tripod? I can't fit the GX80 to Manfrotto tripods when using Olympus 7-14 2.8 Pro. Makes the camera a little bit useless.

Both Smallrig and Hondo Garage make a variety of rod adapters that function beautifully as a standoff for this sort of situation when you don't want to run the rods, and of course are useful for rods when you need 'em. 

3 hours ago, jonpais said:

Pretty much my feelings exactly, concerning the lack of Cinelike D. It was only when I started shooting Cinelike D with my G85 that I felt the DR range of the Lumix was beginning to approach that of my X-T2. The lack of a microphone input is another thing as well. The Zoom is a good workaround, but it's nice to be able to plug a Rodelink directly into the G85. For those in the market for a new midrange mirrorless, I'd still highly recommend the G85 for those reasons, as well as for the fully articulating screen. 

I never liked the look on Cinelike D and found that shooting natural or standard, with a few modifications (actually quite similar to Jase) worked the best on the GH4 and still work fantastically on the GX85. Of course, I colour with either Colorista IV or Resolve, depending on the shoot, so that might have an effect on the ability to pull the grade out of the final image - colour maths really differ widely between apps and plugins. That plus a little Magic Bullet Denoiser III and you're good to go. I'll be picking up the professional Resolve 14 when it's on sale, no question, and checking out if it's denoise is as good. I like Denoiser III as much as what I've seen from Neat Video (and better, in some cases) but for sure it's FAST and does the job. I always liked a little grain in my images, and the GX85 actually has a fantastic noise structure - very fine and almost filmlike already, as long as you're not into the smudgy super-high-iso stuff where in-built NR kicks in. 

[sanveer]

8 hours ago, jonpais said:

Pretty much my feelings exactly, concerning the lack of Cinelike D. It was only when I started shooting Cinelike D with my G85 that I felt the DR range of the Lumix was beginning to approach that of my X-T2. The lack of a microphone input is another thing as well. The Zoom is a good workaround, but it's nice to be able to plug a Rodelink directly into the G85. For those in the market for a new midrange mirrorless, I'd still highly recommend the G85 for those reasons, as well as for the fully articulating screen. 

I agree completely on the Cinelike Profiles and the Mic-in. I think Panasonic made a mistake with those two, considering the Huge difference in form factor and fully articulating screen (apart form weather sealing and the next generation of the IBIS). Bad assumptions on the part of the design team.

I actually love the screen on the GX85. Because it's easier for Guerilla Shooting. The fully articulating screen seems to draw too much attention. Also the Lumix App is a breeze for Guerilla shooting. I use it to shoot at places with the camera dangling around my neck like a dead goose.

 

Btw, I got a New Camera from Diamond Camera in Adelaide. My original GX85 camera was a nightmare for the 6-8 months that I had it. First some issues with the sensor with vertical lines across the LCD and Viewfinder.

It came back from Repairs and the Services guys were dilettantes who installed the replacement aensor in such a way, that the camera was unable to focus (in autofocus). Therefore I was unable to shoot with my Panasonic Lenses. After some email exhanges with Diamonds Cameras, I sent it back to Australia and Diamonds Camera sent me a brand new camera as a replacement. What a relief.

[Cinegain]

Good to hear you got that sorted out!

About the GX80/85 lacks... to be honest, I think it's more about segmentation and placing it somewhere specifically in the market where it finds its own audience. Lot less people might jump the G80/85 when they can have the same thing in a smaller package with the GX80/85. That and saying 'scratch that!' to the planned update of older f/2.8 zooms, I think marketing at Panasonic is deliberately throwing roadblocks around to boost sales. Technical division probably wants to do it all, but they're told to hold back.

[kidzrevil]

It would be lovely if we got a bitrate hack for the g85 like we did with the nx1. Higher bitrate 1080 60p and 4K would push it into gh5 territory :-)

[jonpais]

There's a lot of misinformation out there about Cinelike D, and from reading these pages over the past several years, it appears that Lumix users mostly choose to go with either Natural or Standard photo styles, or Vlog if they've got the GH4 or GH5. I myself had avoided Cinelike D because in the past, reviewers had said it was too orange, or it looked as though there were too many conflicting thoughts on what the best settings were for contrast, saturation and so on, so I just stuck with Natural. Natural was also the profile of choice for those of us wanting to use many LUTs but didn't have a log profile in camera. But Cinelike D has a significantly greater dynamic range than any of the other profiles save V-log, and it is flat enough that there's no need at all to reduce contrast in camera. As for whether or not you like the colors, if you set white balance correctly, you've got yourself a great starting point for grading or adding LUTs for the look you're after. So, before you write off Cinelike D because of the lack of documentation online, or just because you read comments such as, "I like Natural better", or "I like the work of X, Y or Z, and they shoot with Natural", why not ask to see the work of those with the expert opinions? Incidentally, I love Jase's work, too, but he doesn't have the option to use Cinelike D, and I'm sure he'd prefer it if he had the choice. And for anyone still trying to decide whether to go with the G85 or save a few hundred dollars and get the GX85, I'd unhesitatingly recommend the G85. Here are a few screenshots from a test clip I shot over the afternoon in mixed tungsten/daylight using the X-Rite Colorchecker.

 

 

[jonpais]

7 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

It would be lovely if we got a bitrate hack for the g85 like we did with the nx1. Higher bitrate 1080 60p and 4K would push it into gh5 territory :-)

I haven't seen much work from the G85 that would benefit from higher bit rates. Most of it looks great to me as it is.

[mercer]

2 hours ago, jonpais said:

There's a lot of misinformation out there about Cinelike D, and from reading these pages over the past several years, it appears that Lumix users mostly choose to go with either Natural or Standard photo styles, or Vlog if they've got the GH4 or GH5. I myself had avoided Cinelike D because in the past, reviewers had said it was too orange, or it looked as though there were too many conflicting thoughts on what the best settings were for contrast, saturation and so on, so I just stuck with Natural. Natural was also the profile of choice for those of us wanting to use many LUTs but didn't have a log profile in camera. But Cinelike D has a significantly greater dynamic range than any of the other profiles save V-log, and it is flat enough that there's no need at all to reduce contrast in camera. As for whether or not you like the colors, if you set white balance correctly, you've got yourself a great starting point for grading or adding LUTs for the look you're after. So, before you write off Cinelike D because of the lack of documentation online, or just because you read comments such as, "I like Natural better", or "I like the work of X, Y or Z, and they shoot with Natural", why not ask to see the work of those with the expert opinions? Incidentally, I love Jase's work, too, but he doesn't have the option to use Cinelike D, and I'm sure he'd prefer it if he had the choice. And for anyone still trying to decide whether to go with the G85 or save a few hundred dollars and get the GX85, I'd unhesitatingly recommend the G85. Here are a few screenshots from a test clip I shot over the afternoon in mixed tungsten/daylight using the X-Rite Colorchecker.

 

 

Why does your skin look so... reddish/yellowish?

But seriously I agree about CineLikeD, it's one of the reasons I always consider Panasonic cameras.

[jonpais]

2 minutes ago, mercer said:

Why does your skin look so... reddish/yellowish?

But seriously I agree about CineLikeD, it's one of the reasons I always consider Panasonic cameras.

Because I have liver cancer. Check this out if you really like yellow/golden skin tones.  

 

[BTM_Pix]

8 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

It would be lovely if we got a bitrate hack for the g85 like we did with the nx1. Higher bitrate 1080 60p and 4K would push it into gh5 territory :-)

So I've been doing some stuff controlling the Panasonic cameras over wifi by mimicking their smartphone apps.

It's for something that might be useful for a few other people that I'll put up in a few weeks. Nothing earth shattering but could be of use if you use a gimbal...

Anyway, what I see is that when the camera accepts the remote control connection it sends back to the app what model it is and all of the applicable functions to enable in the menus of the app. So that includes colour profiles (including vlog by the way) and all of the different recording formats. I've then tried to construct the commands to send my PAL G7 the one for 1080p60 which is obviously something the camera is capable of but is locked out from the user by not appearing in the UI. Unfortunately it didn't accept it but I'm going to do some more poking around when I get back.

The point being that I have a hunch that someone smarter than me (which is a pretty much anyone with a computer) might be able to exploit this area if they can find a way to convince the G7 it is NTSC and not PAL. Ditto for getting the GX80 to think it is the G7 so it can have cinelike d for example or c4k as the sensors are the same it's just what Panasonic choose to lock out based on what the camera is told it is. 

 

[jonpais]

13 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

So I've been doing some stuff controlling the Panasonic cameras over wifi by mimicking their smartphone apps.

It's for something that might be useful for a few other people that I'll put up in a few weeks. Nothing earth shattering but could be of use if you use a gimbal...

Anyway, what I see is that when the camera accepts the remote control connection it sends back to the app what model it is and all of the applicable functions to enable in the menus of the app. So that includes colour profiles (including vlog by the way) and all of the different recording formats. I've then tried to construct the commands to send my PAL G7 the one for 1080p60 which is obviously something the camera is capable of but is locked out from the user by not appearing in the UI. Unfortunately it didn't accept it but I'm going to do some more poking around when I get back.

The point being that I have a hunch that someone smarter than me (which is a pretty much anyone with a computer) might be able to exploit this area if they can find a way to convince the G7 it is NTSC and not PAL. Ditto for getting the GX80 to think it is the G7 so it can have cinelike d for example or c4k as the sensors are the same it's just what Panasonic choose to lock out based on what the camera is told it is. 

 

It would be awesome if Cinelike D could be enabled in the GX85.

[BTM_Pix]

19 minutes ago, jonpais said:

It would be awesome if Cinelike D could be enabled in the GX85.

Agreed.

Now that I've actually got the mimicking working with the "newer" generations of cameras I can look at it a bit more when I get back tomorrow.

I suspect it's way beyond my capabilities to get the cameras to identify themselves as other models but I can at least now fully compare what gets sent when the app is talking to a model that has a cinelike d profile capability like the G7 and one that doesn't like the GX80 as I have both cameras.

There is bound to be a debug engineering command that does it but that's unlikely that I'll stumble upon  it!!!

[mercer]

7 hours ago, jonpais said:

Because I have liver cancer. Check this out if you really like yellow/golden skin tones.  

 

Man, you went to a dark place with that joke... well played sir. 

[jonpais]

Just for those who don't wish me dead - that was a joke.

[mercer]

1 minute ago, jonpais said:

Just for those who don't wish me dead - that was a joke.

Good to hear it. Btw, I was researching Contax Zeiss lenses last night and I came across an old thread where you were discussing your desire to test vintage primes. Did you ever go that route? It seems you are still pretty gung ho with native lenses, but with the implementation of 5-axis in these cameras, I'm wondering if that's something you plan on testing again?

[jonpais]

@mercer I'd be interested in trying out some vintage primes, it's just I've got no idea where to begin: I think Cinegain recommended the Zeiss, but there's a lot of folks who swear by the Nikkors too. 

[mercer]

11 minutes ago, jonpais said:

@mercer I'd be interested in trying out some vintage primes, it's just I've got no idea where to begin: I think Cinegain recommended the Zeiss, but there's a lot of folks who swear by the Nikkors too. 

I have some Nikkors and they are amazing. The 35mm 1.4 is an epic lens... I shot these with it the other night on the boardwalk in ML Raw...