John_Harrison Posted May 28, 2016 Share Posted May 28, 2016 Hello all! So I've been seeing some FS700's going for pretty low prices on ebay, and I was wondering what the EOSHD community's thoughts on the camera. Now I've actually used this camera a fair bit along with the Odyssey 7Q, and I am very impressed with the quality coming out of the camera. I mean 4K 60P Raw/ProRes and 2K 240P Raw... what's not to love? But I'm just curious, how does this camera hold up in 2016? Now we have the Ursa Mini, Fs5, RED Raven, and we have releases from Kinifinity and Craft Camera (maybe??) right around the corner. How does this camera hold up against the competition? I'm not really interested in the high frame rates or 4K or even Raw for that matter, just the quality of the final image, I'd be happy with a camera that shoots 2K 10 bit ProRes (which incidentally the fs700 does) How does the Color, Dynamic Range and Low-light sensitivity compare to other cameras on the market? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Bacle Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 The thing to ask IMO is : Is the FS700 a good camera for my uses ? The FS700 is a great camera, and still holds up to today's standards. I think people tend to think that a camera is not good enough because newer gear is now available. But I don't get it. A good camera is still a good camera today if you can live whith it's limitations. Yes you can have better, but do you need it ? A great exemple is the Sony F35, which was used to shot Hollywood productions in 2008-2009. Is it a bad camera ? Of course not. Can you compare it with a recent RED or Alexa ? Of course not. But with good lenses and lighting, it would still hold up, and no one will see that it is a 8 year old camera when looking at the final result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 13 minutes ago, Justin Bacle said: The thing to ask IMO is : Is the FS700 a good camera for my uses ? I think this is what John tries to decide. I wonder about the same thing he does, so if someone could give a detailed answer to this question, it would be most helpful: 13 hours ago, John_Harrison said: How does the Color, Dynamic Range and Low-light sensitivity compare to other cameras on the market? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogtown Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 Coupled with the Convergent Design Odyssey Q7+ with the RAW enabled in both camera and recorder, this is an awesome camera set up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 If anyone had the chance to try both, how does the FS700 RAW color science look like compared to the 5D3 RAW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimitris Stasinos Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 Taranis, i have them both. I have spent a lot of time grading 5d iii raw footage for fun in Resovle. After pairing my FS700 with a shogun and tried to grade 4k ProRes files (with a rec709 lut baked in from shogun) i almost felt like home, without the painful workflow of course. I didn't make a direct comparison, but from what i have seen they are very close, except from noise. 2000 base iso in Slog for fs700 forces you to crush the shadows, sometimes more than you would prefer to. But i can live with this. The 4k ProRes meets my expectations for every kind of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jax_rox Posted May 29, 2016 Share Posted May 29, 2016 FS700 with an external recorder will easily hold up, assuming you have some decent lenses. FS700 without external recorder is, IMO, an extremely disappointing image. You do get the S&Q motion which is pretty good. Depends if you're happy always using an external recorder, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Shorr answer: If you can handle the big neast of a rig + recorder: The imageit produces is Class A in 2016 market. It's the same sensor and identical image as the Sony FS7 and F5 and even F55 (but that one just adds Global shutter). And these cameras are compared and hold up to Alexa, Red, C300II, Amira, Blackmagic, anything. The fact that you can use a speedbooster and give it a Full Frame Vistavison sensor look, the same size as an upcoming 8K VV RED and in 4K DCI 12bit RAW/ProRes with a great colour science, 14 stops of lattitude, 240p 2K DCI Continous, So yes hold up and will hold up for the next 4-5 years in highest-end 4K video production, it's all about if you can handle the damn thing mechanicaly!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jax_rox Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 33 minutes ago, Ebrahim Saadawi said: Shorr answer: If you can handle the big neast of a rig + recorder: The imageit produces is Class A in 2016 market. It's the same sensor and identical image as the Sony FS7 and F5 and even F55 (but that one just adds Global shutter). And these cameras are compared and hold up to Alexa, Red, C300II, Amira, Blackmagic, anything. The fact that you can use a speedbooster and give it a Full Frame Vistavison sensor look, the same size as an upcoming 8K VV RED and in 4K DCI 12bit RAW/ProRes with a great colour science, 14 stops of lattitude, 240p 2K DCI Continous, So yes hold up and will hold up for the next 4-5 years in highest-end 4K video production, it's all about if you can handle the damn thing mechanicaly!! I'm not sure where you got the idea that it shares a sensor with the F5/55/FS7. The sensor may be similar/based on that of the FS700, but it is not the same one. That being said, the sensor on it is still pretty nice. As I said before, with a recorder the image is great. Without one, I don't like the camera at all. Overall, the camera is a bit plastic-ey, and feels somewhat 'cheap.' If you rig it up and use a recorder, it's great. But that also means you need to factor those things into your price (though some FS700s are selling with rigs). I tend to see FS700 rigs for around $4k. So, I guess you need to weigh up as to whether it's a worthwhile investment over something like an FS5, URSA mini, C100... Depends on your needs. Keeping in mind it's an E-mount, so if native EF is important to you, it may not be your best option. Depends what you're after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 If you don't need 4k and HFR I'd look at the blackmagic micro and a speedometer. I enjoyed the fs700/o7q .... but it is a beast of a rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raf702 Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 With this setup, don't you need to purchase the raw license and send in the fs700 to Sony? And also buy the raw license for the odyssey as well? Just wondering, cause then the price can add up really quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Daniel Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Wait for some footage, but you might want to consider the Kinefinity Terra - which does a lot of the stuff the FS700 does and more. Plus, it's tiny! Im looking at possibly pairing up the Terra with the DJI X5R on an Osmo. The reason I've not personally gone for the FS7, Ursa Mini 4.6k or FS700/7Q is just down to the bulk. I want a powerful but very portable setup which will match my largely battery powered kit - go anywhere, do anything. Depends what you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Image wise FS700 is definitely up to 2016 standard.. especially with external 4K / Raw upgrade. along with S&Q it's still very relevant and in use in many commercial projects. Now obviously FS5/7 replace it and as others mention the new compact form factor of these makes the FS700 feel/appear like a dinosaur. Like most here i come from DSLR and even though i want to now jump to a proper pro a-cam for my growing needs, i'm reluctant to even go the Ursa mini route (even though i love the IQ/codec to price ratio) or any other V-mount cam. C100/FS5 form factor is what i'm looking for but the codecs on those i what is making me wait. I feel/hope that within a year either a DSLR will give us internal 10-bit / strong codec / raw or that the next sony/canon/BM cam will be the one.. right now too many compromises (although FS5 with latest update gets very close to ticking all boxes) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 I asked a very very similar question a tear ago: "Is a Sony PMW-F3 worth it in 2015?" & my answer is yes it has been! :-) So I'm sure a FS700 can also be a smart choice in 2016 if it fits your needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ebrahim Saadawi Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 10 hours ago, jax_rox said: I'm not sure where you got the idea that it shares a sensor with the F5/55/FS7. The sensor may be similar/based on that of the FS700, but it is not the same one. That being said, the sensor on it is still pretty nice. As I said before, with a recorder the image is great. Without one, I don't like the camera at all. Overall, the camera is a bit plastic-ey, and feels somewhat 'cheap.' If you rig it up and use a recorder, it's great. But that also means you need to factor those things into your price (though some FS700s are selling with rigs). I tend to see FS700 rigs for around $4k. So, I guess you need to weigh up as to whether it's a worthwhile investment over something like an FS5, URSA mini, C100... Depends on your needs. Keeping in mind it's an E-mount, so if native EF is important to you, it may not be your best option. Depends what you're after. It's the same CMOS chip from SONY SC. It's been implemented inside three cinema cameras, the sony fs700, sony f5, sony fs7 (in that order). Then the chip was slightly tweaked by adding global shutter circuitry and a higher end colour array filter on top of it, that's in the Sony f55, the flagship model competing with the alexas/reds/c300ii/varicams. So with the FS700 using a RAW external recorder, you're in that league. Not anywhere near obselete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kino Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 According to Mitch Gross of Convergent Design, FS700 RAW will provide the same quality as FS5 RAW as the RAW sensor data is exactly the same on the FS cameras. The sensor is also the same Sony Super 35mm used on the FS7, F5, and F55. The main difference is that the F5/F55 can record in 16 bit RAW, while the F55 has the global shutter that has already been mentioned above. Personally, if I had to choose among the FS cameras, I would still go with the FS7 for its internal XAVC 10 bit 4:2:2 S-log3 as it provides more dynamic range than 12 bit linear RAW from the same sensor. Of course, if you have the money, the F5 is a masterpiece and the only camera you will ever need in the 4K era. But used prices are never much lower than brand new. When you think about it, at $16K it's only $1K per bit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenEricson Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 On May 28, 2016 at 3:48 PM, John_Harrison said: Hello all! So I've been seeing some FS700's going for pretty low prices on ebay, and I was wondering what the EOSHD community's thoughts on the camera. Now I've actually used this camera a fair bit along with the Odyssey 7Q, and I am very impressed with the quality coming out of the camera. I mean 4K 60P Raw/ProRes and 2K 240P Raw... what's not to love? But I'm just curious, how does this camera hold up in 2016? Now we have the Ursa Mini, Fs5, RED Raven, and we have releases from Kinifinity and Craft Camera (maybe??) right around the corner. How does this camera hold up against the competition? I'm not really interested in the high frame rates or 4K or even Raw for that matter, just the quality of the final image, I'd be happy with a camera that shoots 2K 10 bit ProRes (which incidentally the fs700 does) How does the Color, Dynamic Range and Low-light sensitivity compare to other cameras on the market? Pros: 4k, Internal NDs, XLR audio, 120fps/4k, Continuous 4k/60p, 7Q is a beautiful monitor on set, price. Cons: Sony color, ergonomics, size, and weight. I've used this setup a lot over the last year. I'm just not a fan of the color it produces. You will have a hell of a time getting the colors to get to look like canon. A 5D3 raw will destroy this setup in color. I actually borrowed it recently from work and shot a few test shots. If you want I can send you some 4K files to mess around with. The quality and lack of noise when exposed correctly is really nice. All that being said, a c100 will look better for an interview most of the time. Added resolution, sharpness, or high frame rates will not make the colors look better. https://vimeo.com/165244135 23 hours ago, Taranis said: If anyone had the chance to try both, how does the FS700 RAW color science look like compared to the 5D3 RAW? 5D3 blows it away. It's nearly impossible to get a saturated commercial look out of the FS700. You can get a nice grade, or something interesting, but you won't get that canon look. 7 hours ago, IronFilm said: I asked a very very similar question a tear ago: "Is a Sony PMW-F3 worth it in 2015?" & my answer is yes it has been! :-) So I'm sure a FS700 can also be a smart choice in 2016 if it fits your needs. The F3 actually produces really really nice, cinematic looking color. The FS700 can't even come close to the F3... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liszon Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 Hey Ben, I would be very interested in seeing some original 4K raw files since I might be in the market for an FS700 in the future. If you would be so kind to upload something I would really appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tugela Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 On 5/28/2016 at 3:48 PM, John_Harrison said: Hello all! So I've been seeing some FS700's going for pretty low prices on ebay, and I was wondering what the EOSHD community's thoughts on the camera. Now I've actually used this camera a fair bit along with the Odyssey 7Q, and I am very impressed with the quality coming out of the camera. I mean 4K 60P Raw/ProRes and 2K 240P Raw... what's not to love? But I'm just curious, how does this camera hold up in 2016? Now we have the Ursa Mini, Fs5, RED Raven, and we have releases from Kinifinity and Craft Camera (maybe??) right around the corner. How does this camera hold up against the competition? I'm not really interested in the high frame rates or 4K or even Raw for that matter, just the quality of the final image, I'd be happy with a camera that shoots 2K 10 bit ProRes (which incidentally the fs700 does) How does the Color, Dynamic Range and Low-light sensitivity compare to other cameras on the market? If you use it, its worth it. It is just a tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/8858-is-a-sony-f3-worthwhile-buying-in-2015/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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