Panavision DXL revealed, an 8K 60fps RAW cinema camera using RED's codec

[Andrew Reid]

Well, it looks like the Arri Alexa 65 has some competition.

Panavision have revealed a RED-Weapon-like cinema camera which shoots 8K from a full frame 41 x 21 sensor, to r3d RAW format.

Read the blog post

[Liszon]

This looks very similar to the RED Xenomorph. Reminds me of those Sony cameras that Hasselblad "repacked".

[froess]

I wonder if I could get one for a review...

[nazdar]

I remember this article :D

https://library.creativecow.net/galt_john/John_Galt_2K_4K_Truth_About_Pixels/1

[Ak Ns]

But it already exists and called red weapon 8k full frame. May be its rebreed as DXL!

[Rockect Sky Sword]

I really wonder why people don't complain about the weight of this cameras, but they do about the Ursa family, knowing that ARRI weight 16 lbs just like big URSA and the mini well, that's enough details. But, the DXL seems to be a candy. I can not guess what the hipsters are going to be complaining about this time.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

47 minutes ago, Rockect Sky Sword said:

I really wonder why people don't complain about the weight of this cameras, but they do about the Ursa family, knowing that ARRI weight 16 lbs just like big URSA and the mini well, that's enough details. But, the DXL seems to be a candy. I can not guess what the hipsters are going to be complaining about this time.

Simple really, because this is a 65mm type digital CINEMA camera, made to be used with ridiculously heavy full metal PL GLASS, big power solutions, handeled by multiple operators, and expensive enough making sure it will not have to be restricted from use because of access to a higher end jib/gimbal/tripod. 

It's a different kind of camera. If you use the URSA that exact same way on a very very high ebd feature then weight and size os of zero importance, while if you work on a project with a budget level correspondent to the URSA cost, weight becomes a huge issue. It even has a small lenses-EF mount. 

 

If it needs more elaboration, imagine if the next Sony A6300 successor was made at the same Canon 1DX/C size and ridiculous metal weight, how would it feel? Huge. Unusable to some, and very annoying to most. Because the target buyer of the camera has gear and mentality to support his camera systems' size and weight. 

[j.f.r.]

Nice, I'll be buying two of those...........

[IronFilm]

Bet this will go a long way towards further improving RED's reputation on the high end. 

[BrooklynDan]

I feel like this is really gonna light a fire under Arri's belly. They've had a nonchalant attitude thus far toward their competition and have really been patient and unhurried. It's good to be the king, after all. Panavision was Arri's biggest customer, too. Has been for decades. But now that PV has united with Red, it's gonna give Red a new level of legitimacy in the high-end, and productions that might have gone Alexa on principle before will jump on this. Panavision has many, many big DPs on their side. The success of their business model is due to their skill at cultivating relationships. Those relationships are about to pay off.

[AaronChicago]

2 minutes ago, BrooklynDan said:

I feel like this is really gonna light a fire under Arri's belly. They've had a nonchalant attitude thus far toward their competition and have really been patient and unhurried. It's good to be the king, after all. Panavision was Arri's biggest customer, too. Has been for decades. But now that PV has united with Red, it's gonna give Red a new level of legitimacy in the high-end, and productions that might have gone Alexa on principle before will jump on this. Panavision has many, many big DPs on their side. The success of their business model is due to their skill at cultivating relationships. Those relationships are about to pay off.

But do they really need a fire put under their belly? They're the king. Honestly what would anyone need that an Arri 65 or Alexa is lacking? Maybe super high frame rates, but that's such a niche feature that the Phantom is covering.

[Oliver Daniel]

This isn't good enough... I was expecting at least 12k at 480fps with 10 axis of in body stabilisation on a global shutter and very clean 100,000 ISO. 

Joking aside.... cool! I can imagine Hollywood liking this. 

Have you read anything about the Kinefinity Terra Andrew? It looks like a mini powerhouse for not a lot of money. Surprised not to have seen a blog post

[ND64]

Seems outside of Japan, camera makers dont like established sensor size standards. what fab company on earth make 41mm wide CMOS sensor? Its meaninglessly bigger than 36 and pitifully smaller than photographic 54 and miserably far from cinematic 65. 

[mkabi]

7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Bet this will go a long way towards further improving RED's reputation on the high end. 

Bet that the collaboration was to really dethrone Arri. 

This is definitely the GoT of the camera world.

[BrooklynDan]

3 hours ago, AaronChicago said:

But do they really need a fire put under their belly? They're the king. Honestly what would anyone need that an Arri 65 or Alexa is lacking? Maybe super high frame rates, but that's such a niche feature that the Phantom is covering.

Alexa 65 is a very limited production camera that must be used with 65mm-format glass, which is in very short supply. This new Panavision DXL can be used with a much wider selection of glass. Even windowed down to Super 35, it's still 4K, which opens the opportunity for full 4K anamorphic, which will be a very tempting proposition to cinematographers shooting big budget movies. This might be a very high-end camera, but Panavision is positioning it as a general purpose camera for production, especially since Red's compressed codec makes 8K manageable, whereas 6K Arriraw has a staggering data rate that requires enormous storage space. It's just a seriously lean and mean camera that should give Alexa a run for its money in a way that Red on its own has struggled to. And now let's see what Sony and Canon will up with. The gauntlet has been thrown.

[forofilms]

Pre-ordered.

This is just the tool I need for my vlogging and home videos...

[cpc]

11 minutes ago, BrooklynDan said:

Alexa 65 is a very limited production camera that must be used with 65mm-format glass, which is in very short supply. This new Panavision DXL can be used with a much wider selection of glass. Even windowed down to Super 35, it's still 4K, which opens the opportunity for full 4K anamorphic, which will be a very tempting proposition to cinematographers shooting big budget movies. This might be a very high-end camera, but Panavision is positioning it as a general purpose camera for production, especially since Red's compressed codec makes 8K manageable, whereas 6K Arriraw has a staggering data rate that requires enormous storage space. It's just a seriously lean and mean camera that should give Alexa a run for its money in a way that Red on its own has struggled to. And now let's see what Sony and Canon will up with. The gauntlet has been thrown.

Rental cost (and target audience) will probably be similar to Alexa 65, so unlikely to challenge regular Alexa/Mini/Amira status as the industry darlings.

[AaronChicago]

I guess what I'm thinking is (aside from super slow mo) - who see's Alexa footage from The Revenant or Skyfall and says that it could be improved? 8K isn't going make those movies better. Maybe worse in my opinion. Plus we've already seen a video from DP Dan Mindel comparing 35mm film to the Alexa and there's virtually no difference.

[Andrew Reid]

17 hours ago, nazdar said:

I remember this article :D

https://library.creativecow.net/galt_john/John_Galt_2K_4K_Truth_About_Pixels/1

Everything he says in there is right.

The DXL follows the Panavision philosophy to the letter from that article, of giving us true 4K from an 8K chip.

It's very much like the difference a Foveon sensor makes to resolution and colour, or the reason the C300's 1080p was so good from that 4K RGB readout.

Nice to see Panavision going purist from a digital film emulsion perspective.

2 hours ago, AaronChicago said:

I guess what I'm thinking is (aside from super slow mo) - who see's Alexa footage from The Revenant or Skyfall and says that it could be improved? 8K isn't going make those movies better. Maybe worse in my opinion. Plus we've already seen a video from DP Dan Mindel comparing 35mm film to the Alexa and there's virtually no difference.

8K on the Panavision DXL is all about the quality of the 4K, it won't be shown as 8K.

[Nikkor]

The difference between 6k to 4k and 8k to 4k is something you won't see in a motion picture. In fact, given the larger sensor the alexa will give more resolution. Even panavision tries to explain this effect in a video in a very cute and wrong way.