Super anamorphic project

[Brian Caldwell]

On 6/11/2016 at 3:20 AM, Bioskop.Inc said:

On 6/15/2016 at 4:18 AM, tweak said:

I think the idea of bigger squeeze is great. I think Cosmo made a 3.75 which would be cool. I don't really like the idea of two scopes in a pathway, but modifying two scopes to build one scope with a bigger squeeze is good I think.

 

Two afocal attachments in series should have significantly better image quality than a single shorter one with the same total squeeze ratio.

[richg101]

10 hours ago, Brian Caldwell said:

Two afocal attachments in series should have significantly better image quality than a single shorter one with the same total squeeze ratio.

definitely.

 

On a side note the stacking of two off the shelf 2x units presents quite a few limitations.  length of units dictate longer taking lenses or smaller sensors in order to keep field angles small enough to avoid mechanical vignette.  both of which have and adverse effect on dof - meaning the effects from the system don;t show up as much.  also the longer focal lengths require larger diameter glass to provide adequate transmission of light.  I expect a 135mm on full frame, in combination with two 2x anamorphics will result in no faster than f5.6 apertures - even with the taking lens set to f2.8, the size of the anamorphs are gonna limit things.  I think for the ultimate setup based on this concept using off the shelf parts you;d want a kowa b+h and a 120-135mm at f4 on full frame, then a iscorama 54 on the front.  that way dof, fov, transmission, iq, and used sensor real estate are all optimmally balanced.  

What will be rather mad is when something like a big rare Kowa 35 - 2x is partnered with a 75-85mm/f2 on a portrait orientated a7s, then OLIVIA SCOPE is installed up front.   16:9 aspect, with lots of oval defocus, incredible shallow dof, wide angles, efficient transmission and deadly sharp.

 

[tweak]

12 hours ago, Brian Caldwell said:

Two afocal attachments in series should have significantly better image quality than a single shorter one with the same total squeeze ratio.

What Rich said above. But my main reason for saying that is because there's no way I'm going to carry around a bazooka to shoot anything! hahaha.

[ken]

I think stack 2 front lens would be possible.  It might need to add another +? diopter on rear lens.   So +?diopter + rear ana(2x)  with front lens 2x and 1.33x front lens stack.  If it works, will save space.  Unfortunately, I don't have any 1.33x or 1.5x lens anymore.

[Bioskop.Inc]

Been so busy that I haven't had a chance to try this yet - also need a step down ring, which is on order.

Just to clarify something: I just stack the 2 Anamorphics together & since I'll put the 54 at the end - all I need to do is set the taking lens & Kowa B&H to Infinity, then focus with the 54 (which will need a diopter or 2). My initial thoughts would be that the DOF will be stupidily thin, like using a Takumar wide open, but might give a type of 3D rendering to the images? Not sure about this last bit. But judging by the pictures taken above, it might be pointless since I can achieve that dreamy look/shallow DOF with the Tokina AT-X wide open.

So will it really be so much better than just 1 anamorphic & a good lens?

Also, it'll be a huge rig to use, but I suppose that won't be too much of a problem since you'll have to use a tripod.

[tweak]

6 hours ago, Bioskop.Inc said:

So will it really be so much better than just 1 anamorphic & a good lens?

No.

[Vladimir]

2 hours ago, tweak said:

No.

except killed rs problem and by 1/3 more data for grading and other purposes. And still smaller than bazooka - i handled both) And even smaller thanks to ken's comment- now its just regular ana with additional front ana glass. So now the sizes are almost equal. And for FF i know some amazing 100/2.8 lens that fits sankor perfectly and thats combo will be very compact and astonishing in terms of IQ.

 

9 hours ago, Bioskop.Inc said:

My initial thoughts would be that the DOF will be stupidily thin, like using a Takumar wide open, but might give a type of 3D rendering to the images? Not sure about this last bit. But judging by the pictures taken above, it might be pointless since I can achieve that dreamy look/shallow DOF with the Tokina AT-X wide open.

So will it really be so much better than just 1 anamorphic & a good lens?

Gonna do proper footage to clear that question ) 

btw here is my current build, its shorter than previous but with way bigger glasses

[tweak]

Nice work!

[Vladimir]

did a quick test with second prototype, shot with a7s/shogun: 

frame1: 100mm/1.8 wide open, close focus at 1.2m end up 16:9 ratio - will fix that with rectilux (when i can get it :), graded with lumetri in premiere (curves, wheels, lut - mixed all that to test out how grading posibilities is changed with 1/3 additional data - and it feels like it changed noticeably), there is visible lightened areas on top and bottom - thats because front stack of two glasses is poped out of current housing

frame2: closed down to something between f2.8~4 and still missed a focus, so think of it as RS effect test aaand... just look at it

 

and here's a part i totally screwed up - u can clearly can see what's happened) i was so busy nailing focus so didn't notice i forgot to change mode, but still u can watch it as rough background rendition/dof test (wide open, focus at 1-2m, no grading): 

 

[Vladimir]

for post process my initial thoughts was to use this scheme to get as much as possible to 10-bit color:

i thought working in 10/12/16 bit container and stretching out my vertical area 4x will gave me 4x4px block with four interpolated values in horizontal lines which can be downscaled to one 10-bitish pixel. I'm not much into downscaling algorithms and calculations so i'd wanted to try it on practice but when i've tried that in premiere (put footage on 8540x3840 sequence, rotate and stretch out and then import to 2160x960) it ends up in crapish blocky image with stair-stepish lines instead of smooth straight ones.

Can anyone explain what i've done wrong and maybe someone knows software that can properly prepare footage like that (rotate, stretch-out and downscale)?

[bunk]

I think you're victim of a typo. Try 8640x3840 instead of 8540x3840.

I tried it with a 3D render in AE and it worked fine ...even better than I expected.

[Vladimir]

10 hours ago, bunk said:

I think you're victim of a typo. Try 8640x3840 instead of 8540x3840.

I tried it with a 3D render in AE and it worked fine ...even better than I expected.

Thank you! It worked. I repeated all this steps with Cineform 10bitRGB codec and result is just sliiightly better than just squeezing footage to 2160x960 at start. Totally doesn't worth all extra steps.

[ken]

Hi, I just used two different 2x front and rear lens and got at least 2.8x ratio.  But looks like it needs much longer FL taking lens to use.

P.S. Image taken by hand hold front lens, 3m distance, resized only.

[Geoff CB]

On 7/5/2016 at 7:54 PM, Vladimir said:

did a quick test with second prototype, shot with a7s/shogun: 

frame1: 100mm/1.8 wide open, close focus at 1.2m end up 16:9 ratio - will fix that with rectilux (when i can get it :), graded with lumetri in premiere (curves, wheels, lut - mixed all that to test out how grading posibilities is changed with 1/3 additional data - and it feels like it changed noticeably), there is visible lightened areas on top and bottom - thats because front stack of two glasses is poped out of current housing

frame2: closed down to something between f2.8~4 and still missed a focus, so think of it as RS effect test aaand... just look at it

 

and here's a part i totally screwed up - u can clearly can see what's happened) i was so busy nailing focus so didn't notice i forgot to change mode, but still u can watch it as rough background rendition/dof test (wide open, focus at 1-2m, no grading): 

 

Absolutely adore this look. Great stuff.

[Vladimir]

im finishing my third prototype, need just rectilux to complete all, but already test it. And its great) i've used 105mm and there is no vignette, thats something between 50-60mm on hFOV. My luck there was a post on selling rectilux cdna now while its almost two month till next production of new units. Gonna pay today and waiting package from japan to complete my prototype)

[Vladimir]

On 8/24/2016 at 5:12 PM, Geoff CB said:

Absolutely adore this look. Great stuff.

thank u, im glad someone like results. Have much more ideas to try, sadly always on low budget, so progress is slow)

[Vladimir]

here some screengrab from 4x atachment and Nikkor 105/1.8 on a7s, mdf ~1.2m, far from perfect aligning)

[Blah Blah]

Very interesting project. Can you get any sharpness when stopping down?

[Jim Chang]

You would need a real solid lens rail support for sure, for this type of experiment, check my new V2 clamp with rail support, :-)

http://www.rapidotechnology.com/products-services/rapido-anamorphic-lens-clamps-with-rail-support

 

[Vladimir]

9 hours ago, Jim Chang said:

You would need a real solid lens rail support for sure, for this type of experiment, check my new V2 clamp with rail support, :-)

http://www.rapidotechnology.com/products-services/rapido-anamorphic-lens-clamps-with-rail-support

 

thanks, u can send me some and i will review them with finished setup) that can be my first review ever

 

On 10/21/2016 at 3:37 PM, Blah Blah said:

Very interesting project. Can you get any sharpness when stopping down?

i believe i do, but first im gonna do more test (thanks Louis, now i have every component i need). Actually i'm totally ok with sharpness i've already got