Video and excellent audio without having to sync in post

[paulreso1]

Hello, I am a first time poster, though I have read quite a lot of content here.  I am a recording musician and stills photographer.....I need to branch out into video for my music so I can record tutorials and demonstration tracks.  I have some nice phantom powered microphones for recording audio which Id like to use and I'd like as simple (& portable)  a set up as possible to record video and audio together so I don't need to go through syncing sound in post (which I have done before, but always found it a pain to get precise).  I have the panasonic LX100 which I have used in the past for video, but it has no way of getting good quality audio into the camera;  I also have the FUJI X-T1 which I use for stills photography, but the video quality is poor.  I guess I also have an iPhone 6......I wondered if there is a simple way to get something like the Oly EM5 mkii or Panasonic G type cameras set up with a decent audio input to simultaneously record video and audio?  Finally, I would need decent lens recommendations - I like the 35mm equivalent view for my demonstrations and tutorials....if possible, Id like to be able to record in low light too (eg in church setting ).  Thanks in advance for your help....

[Sekhar]

You can record the video/audio on your video camera and the audio separately on another device and sync the two pretty easily in Premiere Pro. E.g., I've recently covered a stage event where I recorded the video in my NX1/NX500 and got the audio through the XLR feed, and it was straightforward to put the two together. Premiere Pro will analyze the audio in the video and automatically sync it with the audio. Other editors might do the same, but I know Premiere Pro does it easily.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

I also suggest you bite it and go with the syncing route. I say this because you're a musician and Audio is more vital than anything else. No camera will provide good enough audio for professional music, unless you pay for a large camcorder like a C100. 

I suggest: simply a Zoom H4n/H6 with XLRs to record audio. Use your cameras you already own. (LX100 has great video) and just sync. 

Rather than look for a new camera, look for something to make syncing audio easier. Like software as Plural Eyes or FCP or something. Others will help you as I have no experience with those, I sync manually on the timeline., 

[xenogears]

My opinion:

-A Sony FS100(used), nice image and audio support this give you a great 1080p image in a relative small package.

-A GH4 with a YAGH interface.

But if the LX100 image is enough for you then just get a external audio recorder as the Tascam DR70D or DR60MKII the form factor is very helpfull for small cameras and sync in post always use a clamp sound between takes for easy sync.

[fuzzynormal]

I record audio directly onto my EM5II files. 

The preamps are not great in the EM5II, but I find that the human voice while using my sennheiser e100, I get recordings that are perfectly acceptable.  The key is to turn down the input level of the EM5II so the floor is as low as possible, and then send the fattest line-in source audio into the camera it can handle.  I even let it drift ever so slightly into the red.

Also, with this setup you can headset monitor whatever is going into the camera.  Certainly helpful.

You'll need the EM5II grip accessory to monitor the input.  I was bummed about the need to buy this art first, but the camera feels so much better with the battery grip.  Plus, you get hot swap power.

[Michael Coffee]

10 hours ago, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

I also suggest you bite it and go with the syncing route. I say this because you're a musician and Audio is more vital than anything else. No camera will provide good enough audio for professional music, unless you pay for a large camcorder like a C100. 

I suggest: simply a Zoom H4n/H6 with XLRs to record audio. Use your cameras you already own. (LX100 has great video) and just sync. 

Rather than look for a new camera, look for something to make syncing audio easier. Like software as Plural Eyes or FCP or something. Others will help you as I have no experience with those, I sync manually on the timeline., 

Ugh.. syncing is a pain. I suggest using something like a zoom, and then line out to the camera.. my next setup will be a gx85 and a zoom both going into an external recorder - better codec for the panny and synced audio.. what a dream! Almost the perfect setup, apart from global shutter, higher DR and a7s lowlight:) (and better autofocus).. saving my pennies right now:)

 

 

[fuzzynormal]

1 hour ago, Michael Coffee said:

 I suggest using something like a zoom, and then line out to the camera.. my next setup will be a gx85 and a zoom

The GX85/GX80/GX7II doesn't have audio input.  Not sure what you're getting at...

[John Matthews]

I really don't see the big deal in syncing...

During the shoot, I would spend about the same amount of time setting up an external recorder versus a wired or wireless option.

Throw the files on the computer. Ok... this takes the most time. Depending on the file size, it could take as long at 1 minute for a big 24-bit audio file.

Syncing in FCPX: Select both files. Right-click and select: "Synchronize clips"... 15 seconds later... voilà... works like magic.

In the timeline: Expand audio. Select audio from camera and press "v" to disable audio. Adjust your levels and you're done. 10 seconds.

So, what we're really talking about is 2 minutes (maximum) of extra time, but you get a fantastic audio file and it costs much less. If your time is worth that much, I'll argue that you wouldn't have asked the question on this forum. If fact, the only "hard" part of this whole thing is keeping track of which audio file goes with which video file. The only real negative that I can think of to this method is during the recording. You can't adjust and monitor an external recorder (placed next to your subject on-set) if the sound becomes too loud... audio ruined. So care needs to taken when setting the levels.

[DevonChris]

6 hours ago, Michael Coffee said:

Ugh.. syncing is a pain. I suggest using something like a zoom, and then line out to the camera.. my next setup will be a gx85 and a zoom both going into an external recorder - better codec for the panny and synced audio.. what a dream! Almost the perfect setup, apart from global shutter, higher DR and a7s lowlight:) (and better autofocus).. saving my pennies right now:)

I use an Atomos Ninja Star with my GX8 and the sound quality from the internal mic is actually quite good (but I still only use it for synching purposes).

I think these cameras apply horrendous amounts of compresion to the audio, which is why the internally recorded audio is so bad.

You can connect a zoom straight into the Ninja Star which gives excellent synched audio and video quality, at least with the GX8. Maybe this is the dream setup for your GX85 that you mentioned

[Michael Coffee]

6 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

The GX85/GX80/GX7II doesn't have audio input.  Not sure what you're getting at...

Yeah, the audio out of the zoom goes into the external recorder..  I'm saying to go from a zoom/preamps to the camera rather than sync later, for camera's with an input that is.

4 hours ago, John Matthews said:

I really don't see the big deal in syncing...

During the shoot, I would spend about the same amount of time setting up an external recorder versus a wired or wireless option.

Throw the files on the computer. Ok... this takes the most time. Depending on the file size, it could take as long at 1 minute for a big 24-bit audio file.

Syncing in FCPX: Select both files. Right-click and select: "Synchronize clips"... 15 seconds later... voilà... works like magic.

In the timeline: Expand audio. Select audio from camera and press "v" to disable audio. Adjust your levels and you're done. 10 seconds.

So, what we're really talking about is 2 minutes (maximum) of extra time, but you get a fantastic audio file and it costs much less. If your time is worth that much, I'll argue that you wouldn't have asked the question on this forum. If fact, the only "hard" part of this whole thing is keeping track of which audio file goes with which video file. The only real negative that I can think of to this method is during the recording. You can't adjust and monitor an external recorder (placed next to your subject on-set) if the sound becomes too loud... audio ruined. So care needs to taken when setting the levels.

It's not so quick if you're dealing with 100 clips or so:)

2 hours ago, DevonChris said:

I use an Atomos Ninja Star with my GX8 and the sound quality from the internal mic is actually quite good (but I still only use it for synching purposes).

I think these cameras apply horrendous amounts of compresion to the audio, which is why the internally recorded audio is so bad.

You can connect a zoom straight into the Ninja Star which gives excellent synched audio and video quality, at least with the GX8. Maybe this is the dream setup for your GX85 that you mentioned

Yeah, this is what I meant - perhaps I wasn't clear enough

[paulreso1]

7 hours ago, Michael Coffee said:

Yeah, the audio out of the zoom goes into the external recorder..  I'm saying to go from a zoom/preamps to the camera rather than sync later, for camera's with an input that is.

It's not so quick if you're dealing with 100 clips or so:)

Yeah, this is what I meant - perhaps I wasn't clear enough

This sounds like a good option to me....I can live with the audio quality of zoom preamps (especially the later recorders).....

[M Carter]

I've often found my synch audio on Nikon bodies and the NX1 to be useable in the final edit. 

My chain is (insert really really nice hyper mic here - I use the AT4053) to a Tascam DR60d, which records the audio track and a safety track at minus-6 DB; camera-out to the camera's mic input. And then I really take care to dial in the gains staging - maximum safe gain on the Tascam, set the DSLR input at around 70-80%, and use the camera-out gain on the recorder to get a proper but strong level to the camera.

11 hours ago, DevonChris said:

I think these cameras apply horrendous amounts of compresion to the audio, which is why the internally recorded audio is so bad.

It's not just compression (and there are two kinds of compression, audio limiting and compression of the digital file, such as MP3), it's minimum-circuit to do the job as far as preamps go; and cramming a tiny preamp into a mess of other circuitry isn't optimal. And throw in so-so 1/8" connectors and cables and an unbalanced signal path. But most camera's audio compression (limiting or auto-gain) is horrendous (but can usually be turned off). Digital compression is generally very good.

As I said, if I'm very careful with my synch audio, I can sometimes use it in the edit, but this also depends on the camera. The NX1 can sound punchy and crisp with a good preamp and optimal levels (and a great mic). But once I'm rolling, I can't mess with anything but the input level on the recorder. As interview subjects get comfortable or you get to the meat of the story, they can get louder. So often it's the DR track, with sometimes bits of the safety track cut in.

Synching is a non-issue these days, with FCPX or PluralEyes. And I can manually synch even long multi-cut interviews in a couple minutes, it's not really an issue for many projects. But if you don't want to buy a pro recorder, at least get a pro preamp. And probably the most full-featured value/budget preamp is the one in the DR60D, so you might as well just get a recorder (mine shipped with PluralEyes for free, too). I'm not crazy about the zooms that I've seen, but there may be good ones out there. DR60D's can be found really cheap used, too.