Another one of those threads...

[ricardo_sousa11]

I know I might be getting annoying with these, but I get more and more confused the more I think about it. Im in need of a second body, however this is such a struggle since every camera has its strenghts and weaknesses.

Unlike photography, where the choice for a "professional" piece of gear, is usually easier to make, relying more on lens selection and sensor size, buying a Nikon D800 or Canon 5DM3 will provide incredible results, in video, the choise is much more specific. Codec, resolution, low light, global shutter, color, framerates and so on are all choices we need to make and sacrifice some stuff in return of other.

As some of you may know I've been "dating" a second body, to join my NX1 for quite a while now, and now my choice is between 2 cameras, the A7RII/A7SII (can someone tell me which is best for video?) and the URSA mini 4k.

The a7 has amazing lowlight, full frame aesthetic, less rolling shutter than my NX1 and the incredible IBIS, the URSA has global shutter, incredibly filmic look with 10bit 422 prores which would be amazing. Both cameras are incredibly different, and they both would fit my needs, I believe the URSA mini would allow me to take higher end jobs, however, for the low end jobs, such as event coverage, weddings and simple stuff, the A7SII would be a better choice.

So I reall need someone that has tried both, to give me some insight, I've watched countless reviews, opinions but I get more and more confused everytime.

Of course an FS5/C300II would be incredible but way out of my budget which is around 2500€.

*Renting is out of choice, I live in a small island which doesnt have any store renting video/photo gear, if I had, I'd pick the a7s and rent an ursa when necessary.

[mercer]

I don't have either of those cameras, but I did recently purchase a BMMCC. With that being said, 10bit ProRes and 12bit Raw is simply amazing and I'm unsure if I can ever go back to 8bit color and anything less than 12 stops of DR.

With that being said, I think the two couldn't be more different. I do not think you will be able to go into a dark reception hall with the Ursa Mini and get good results without additional lighting. But for music videos, commercials and narrative work, I don't think you can do better than the 4.6k at that price point.

But as I have said, I have zero practical experience with either of those cameras and my opinion is solely based upon online videos, reviews and forums. 

[Justin Bacle]

Both the A7SII and Ursa Mini are good choices and very different. I think the URSA mini 4K is out of your budget though. it's 3k$ + 1.5k$ for the viewfinder.

Have you considered the JVC LS300 (4:2:2 in HD + XLR audio and ND filters in a small package) ? A GH4 + Speedbooster can be great too for events and higher end.

[Michael Coffee]

c100.. great low light, rock solid - mark 2 has the incredible dual pixel autofocus.. better video than 5d's, so can be very filmic.. great detail and colour.. low rolling shutter - better all around camera.. that said I would love an a7s to film at night with!

 

[pablogrollan]

Is 4K a must? I noticed you listed the a7S II and URSA mini 4K, two cameras as opposite as they can be except for the 4K recording...

I'd never get a Blackmagic for any "event jobs" -anything but a very safe and controlled environment-. If you don't really need 4K, as Michael Coffee said a C100 would be a great choice: can't see in the dark but it is quite good in low light, much better than URSA. Batteries last forever, having proper xlr audio and ND filters is priceless and it feels better than rigging any dslr. It's only 8 bit 4-2-0, but still really nice and gradeable, plus AVCHD means you can record hours in a cheap 64GB card and you can edit it easily in a mid-range laptop or old workstation (Sony's XAVC and Canon's new MXF 4K oriented codecs require a beefier computer to handle).

[Mattias Burling]

If the b-cam is 70% to get additional features an only 30% to get a two camera setup, I would go for a BMPCC, 5DRaw or what have you.

But if its 70% to get a second angle over time, I would make it easy and cheap with a second NX1.

[ricardo_sousa11]

Heres my way of thinking, and why theres this dilemma.

Im aware the A7sII and Ursa are completely different cameras, for completely different purposes. This year, I've got 3 music video scheduled as well as a couple advertisement (apart from small gigs such as events/weddings). So, if I got the URSA, It could help improve the jobs I have control on, like the music videos and advertisement, however, if I got the A7sII it would still be great, but not as good, but I could use it as a Bcam for all other stuff.

Why not an NX1 ? Well, as much as I love my camera, it is a dead system, and wouldnt make sense to keep investing in it, so the A7sII is the next best choice, not only it would complement my gear, it would improve my lowlight shots, as well as have the choice for a full frame aesthetic or S35.

The BMPC4k is also a good choice, its cheaper and has 10 bit prores, however having only 3 ISO choices, lack of slow-mo, and other quirks threw me off a bit. 

The 5DMk2 is a great choice, which i've been also dating for a while..

[Liam]

Well you have slow mo covered pretty well with the nx1 if you'll always be using both your cameras and aren't just looking to move on. The nx1 being dead just means when it craps out you move on.. like any other camera.. and you'd still have the option to buy another nx1. You aren't even using native glass, right? Maybe if your workflow is crazy specific to it, but you're planning on keeping it around, so idk, I don't see that discontinuation as a real problem. Sounds like there might be some secret requirements or you're just a little stubborn which is fine, I am too. C100 could still help you get work, maybe more so than the um4k, and has awesome low light, but sounds like you want 4k. Ls300 sounds a lot like an nx1 with better lowlight and better lens mount and log and no crazy sharpening problem, but maybe that camera still has a bit of a bad reputation. It's a real pity the a6300 overheats.. maybe get an lx100 to tie you over for a while - pretty fantastic 4k b camera for the price. Maybe an nx500, so when it dies it stings less. 

[ricardo_sousa11]

17 hours ago, Liam said:

Well you have slow mo covered pretty well with the nx1 if you'll always be using both your cameras and aren't just looking to move on. The nx1 being dead just means when it craps out you move on.. like any other camera.. and you'd still have the option to buy another nx1. You aren't even using native glass, right? Maybe if your workflow is crazy specific to it, but you're planning on keeping it around, so idk, I don't see that discontinuation as a real problem. Sounds like there might be some secret requirements or you're just a little stubborn which is fine, I am too. C100 could still help you get work, maybe more so than the um4k, and has awesome low light, but sounds like you want 4k. Ls300 sounds a lot like an nx1 with better lowlight and better lens mount and log and no crazy sharpening problem, but maybe that camera still has a bit of a bad reputation. It's a real pity the a6300 overheats.. maybe get an lx100 to tie you over for a while - pretty fantastic 4k b camera for the price. Maybe an nx500, so when it dies it stings less. 

I want to keep the NX1, Im in fact thinking about getting the 16-50S model, I found one NEW for 459€ in a local store (should I get it?) of course being a dead system means nothing, because IMO the NX1 has excelent performance, its a great camera and I intend on keeping it around for most small end jobs.

However, getting a second body, I want one that would enable me to do more, and just be there as a second perspective. Thats why I want a different camera than the NX1/500, I want more features, on top of that list is the 10bit, followed by global shutter, low light and so on, "small" big improvements, that can help me accept jobs that would be harder to do otherwise. Hence the 2 completely different options.

[mercer]

If 10bit is on the top of your list, then it seems like the Ursa or the BMCC are the options in your price range... Or a D16... Which has a beautiful image also. 

[Liam]

Yeah, that 16-50s is pretty hot.. I don't wanna pretend to be an expert on whether you can still sell it later at a reasonable price etc, but I'd have thought samsung gear would have dropped in value a lot quicker. That does seem like a good deal to me, and the stabilization and sharpness make it really appealing.

xc10? Gh4 with recorder and speedbooster? If you haven't considered those.

Personally, the um4k is intimidating to use properly, and the a7sii doesn't sound like an amazing leap for the price. Though the low light is crazy.

[ricardo_sousa11]

53 minutes ago, Liam said:

Yeah, that 16-50s is pretty hot.. I don't wanna pretend to be an expert on whether you can still sell it later at a reasonable price etc, but I'd have thought samsung gear would have dropped in value a lot quicker. That does seem like a good deal to me, and the stabilization and sharpness make it really appealing.

xc10? Gh4 with recorder and speedbooster? If you haven't considered those.

Personally, the um4k is intimidating to use properly, and the a7sii doesn't sound like an amazing leap for the price. Though the low light is crazy.

I've been checking them on ebay theyre going new for 1000€, second hand auction, 3 days from over, is at 600€ with over 30 bidders, so there seems to be interest. I might jump in and "risk" it, but then i'd have to sell my sigma 18-35mm f1.8. The stabilization is what I want the most of course.

I dont like fixed lens cameras, and getting a GH4 at this point is a waste IMO. 

As for the A7sII I think exacly that, is it an amazing jump from the NX1? No, and actually a step back on some stuff, but the lowlight is stunning.

I will need to make a decision in the upcoming month however, and Im as confused as I can be...All cameras have very specific targets, or too costly for an overall camera (such as the FS5).

[Liam]

Can you borrow a friend's camera or get something super cheap just to buy you time? 

[mercer]

11 hours ago, ricardo_sousa11 said:

I've been checking them on ebay theyre going new for 1000€, second hand auction, 3 days from over, is at 600€ with over 30 bidders, so there seems to be interest. I might jump in and "risk" it, but then i'd have to sell my sigma 18-35mm f1.8. The stabilization is what I want the most of course.

I dont like fixed lens cameras, and getting a GH4 at this point is a waste IMO. 

As for the A7sII I think exacly that, is it an amazing jump from the NX1? No, and actually a step back on some stuff, but the lowlight is stunning.

I will need to make a decision in the upcoming month however, and Im as confused as I can be...All cameras have very specific targets, or too costly for an overall camera (such as the FS5).

I don't know... I would never sell the Sigma 18-35mm for that Samsung. Just my opinion of course. 

[ricardo_sousa11]

14 hours ago, mercer said:

I don't know... I would never sell the Sigma 18-35mm for that Samsung. Just my opinion of course. 

Ill keep them both for a while and pick the best one out, will be getting the samsung today.

Unfortunately, all my friends are photography freaks, so the best I could get is an 5DMk2 Raw, which I might give a try and see if I can postpone this decision further..

[August McCue]

If you're fine without 4k and RAW the c100 is a great camera. Shot my first feature film on the mark ii and l freaking loved it. I think it's one of the only cameras that can cross over between the 2 different kind of shooting you do in that range. Still getting a professional camera that can output good color externally. I'm in the same boat man thats what I'v been leaning toward myself recently. 

[DevonChris]

1 hour ago, August McCue said:

If you're fine without 4k and RAW the c100 is a great camera. Shot my first feature film on the mark ii and l freaking loved it. I think it's one of the only cameras that can cross over between the 2 different kind of shooting you do in that range. Still getting a professional camera that can output good color externally. I'm in the same boat man thats what I'v been leaning toward myself recently. 

Have you tried using a C100ii with an external recorder? I imagine that Prores HQ and that camera sensor would create fantastic images.

[August McCue]

11 hours ago, DevonChris said:

Have you tried using a C100ii with an external recorder? I imagine that Prores HQ and that camera sensor would create fantastic images.

Yeah man, I was really loving the the dailies that I was seeing. Can't wait to get into grading them. I wish the mark ii was cheaper but having a NX1 for slow mo I think I could be fine with a C100.