I have $6k. Need a camera this week. Help me decide.

[Dave Maze]

I'm shooting a music video next week. Then one day later a 2 week documentary in Mexico City. Then after that finishing up a feature doc that will go to theaters in the fall. We shot most of the feature doc on the c300. 

I'm on the fence with:

used C300.

C100 mkii (I still think I'd rather do c300 tho).

FS5.

a7S II with Atomos and XLR adapter. 

Help me decide 

[omar]

I'd say a used C300 or a c100 mk II with external recorder. C300 with autofocus upgrade would be best but I think either one would be fine. There are both work horse cameras that will never let you down. Plus you can't beat that canon look. 

[User]

C100 MkII.
Sigma 18-35mm
Canon 24-105mm
No external recorder required. It makes little difference anyway. Lean and incredibly mean.

[Michael Coffee]

Rent an Alexa:)

[Amro Othman]

If I was doing a music video I would definitely get anything BUT the C300. 50/ 60fps in important to me. If 25p is all you need for sure then okay but even basic slo-mo can be quite useful especially for music videos.

I would take the FS5 but if you had to go Canon then I would go for the C100 mk2.

[AaronChicago]

21 hours ago, User said:

C100 MkII.
Sigma 18-35mm
Canon 24-105mm
No external recorder required. It makes little difference anyway. Lean and incredibly mean.

Hands down.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

C100 II. DPAF, 60p, and significantly improved low light performance make it pretty boss for doc work.

[IronFilm]

On Saturday, July 02, 2016 at 9:53 PM, Amro Othman said:

If I was doing a music video I would definitely get anything BUT the C300. 50/ 60fps in important to me. If 25p is all you need for sure then okay but even basic slo-mo can be quite useful especially for music videos.

I would take the FS5 but if you had to go Canon then I would go for the C100 mk2.

This. Slow motion is so critical for music videos and many docs.

Plus having 4K is handy, useful future proofing too.

Electronic variable ND filter can be a killer feature for run and gun docs.

I'd get the Sony FS5.

Plus Sony 18-105mm f4 + Sony 35mm f1.8 OS + Sony 50mm f1.8 OS + Sony 70-200mm f2.8 (or the f4 version if you want to save money and/or weight) + Tokina 11-20mm f2.8 (in Nikon F mount).

[jax_rox]

FS5, unless you're desperately stuck with Canon. Will say, the C(x)00 series is a pretty good doco machine, but the FS5 will give you plenty more options including slowmo and 10-bit HD.

[Chris Jason]

I recommend the Canon EOS 1DX  Mark II, the world's fastest DSLR, shooting at 14 frames per second (FPS) with full tracking autofocus and auto exposure for each and every frame. The price just fits your budget. It is $5,999. 

[mercer]

Have you considered the Ursa Mini 4.6k? Otherwise, I think a C100 mkii might give you the most mileage. 

[j.f.r.]

On July 1, 2016 at 8:20 AM, DaveAltizer said:

I'm shooting a music video next week. Then one day later a 2 week documentary in Mexico City. Then after that finishing up a feature doc that will go to theaters in the fall. We shot most of the feature doc on the c300. 

I'm on the fence with:

used C300.

C100 mkii (I still think I'd rather do c300 tho).

FS5.

a7S II with Atomos and XLR adapter. 

Help me decide 

 

I'm really big on 4k, but truth is C100 Mark II has a 4k sensor that simply downsizes to 1080p in camera and has beautiful quality. C100 Mark II recently dropped as most people are aware and I think it's as of today one of the better options http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=c100+mark+II&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=

[Dave Maze]

ive recently even considered the 1DC aftermarket as well. I've used it before and loved the IQ. Also the super 35 mode on it is very similar to the c100 so I can shoot in that mode for run and gun stuff 

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

First of all. You've shot on Canon C300/system for sometime and your new camera is going to real pro work next week, so switching to a whole other brand/system is not really a good decision! Whole new menus, buttons, image quality, picture settings, grading, ergonomics, etc.


-Cx00 cameras are hand down the best and most used documentary/run and gun type camera that you're going to do. So it's an obvious first choice. And it's a very unique system in that you can get it and shoot next week confident of all the little bits of the camera system. 



Between the C300 Mark One and the C100 MKII, 


C300 MKI has the following:

-50mbps 4:2:2 MPEG-2 codec (not much image difference but UK broadcasters require it. Can be obtained from C100 with recorder) 

-CF cards vs SD Cards. (bigger and harder to lose?)

-HD-SDI output and Genlock (C100 has HDMI only) 

-ND filters are electronically operated (C100 with a wheel, not a button)


C100 MKII has the following:

-Newer better design/ergonomics (tilty screen, lighter, more assignable buttons, better placement of settings)

-A newer, more sophisticated downsampling algorithm from the sensor, resulting in better high ISO performance and better colours. It's a subtle but good difference side by side.

(PS: for techis: C300/C100 original take the sensor pixels and downsamples directly from 4K resolution into HD. R,G,B with two G pixels they call "Super Greens", a good direct method. C100 MKII with a beefier processor, splits the 4K sensor readout into 3 different 4K streams, R and G and B, then downsamples those three 4K streams into HD, basically a higher performance downsampling method they created to up image quality a bit)

-60p at 1080p (vs 720p only on C300)

-More advanced DPAF (has face detection using the great STM lenses) 

-2000-3000$ less. 


So if you want one of these, choose which features you require. I'd say for your situation the C100 MKII is best especially for the sharp slowmotion option. But if you REQUIRE an SDI output for an example then the C300 is a must. Both have the same sensor, same EVF, same body metal and same sealing, etc. It's ONLY those aforementioned differences. 




About the 1DC.

It's a DSLR. That's the key point here. A DSLR like the 5D you used once for sure. Can you shoot ahead with that? 

It's my favorite camera of all time and I spend a lot, and I mean A LOT to get one for my company, triple the price of a new unit (country customs) reproaching epic/F55 territory in price. But I like this more, because it's a DSLR that shoots the most beautiful motion I've seen/shot.

Is it for you? 

I don't think so.

My work is hardly documentary, and for documentary, a 1DC is not a practical camera.

-It doesn't have the lovely tilty EVF and tilty LCD of the C100 containing zebras/peaking/waveform (major benefits when shooting doc. style).

-It doesn't have the extremely high end sound recording system of the C100 with two XLR inputs and a high quality 3.5mm input and physical knobs so most likely the 1DC will require an external audio recorder unless audio is not critical to your audience/work.

-It doesn't have the immediate ND filteration you can put with a touch, you have to sit down and screw on a variable ND on the lens which does affect colour slightly unless very high end ones.

-It doesn't have the big beefy batteries that last 4 hours, but 45min-ish ones and you'll carry spares, and switch off liveview between shots. 

-If you'll shoot in 4K, the media cost and size is through the roof. And I mean, through the ROOF. You'll pay as much as the camera for a documentary shoot. Not kidding. But you have a lovely s35 option similar to C100 with CLog (I use it a lot, more than 4K, but it's tempting and makes you shoot 4K and buy more media!).

-One major factor to have in mind is that the 1DC can go into rain and dust and shoot anywhere while the Cx00 will die with rain drops (happened).

-1DC slowmotion is very bad compared to the C100 MKII 60p which is one of the best 60p images out there. Very soft 60p.  


Choose your poison!

[aldolega]

7 hours ago, mercer said:

Have you considered the Ursa Mini 4.6k?

That would be the absolute worst camera in this price range for the stated needs... no NDs, super high media and power costs, heavy, and he wouldn't even be able to get it up and running for less than $6K anyways.

It sounds like the C100II would be the best option, maybe with a recorder for slower shoots. C300 doesn't seem at all worth it with the C100II still being cheaper.

FS5 being a close second, or even first pick, depending on how important super slo-mo and 4K is to you. Or how useful the variable ND would be on your docs (I imagine in bright sunny Mexico, seamlessly moving from inside to outside without skipping a beat or going super-deep-DOF, would be pretty useful).

[mercer]

1 hour ago, aldolega said:

That would be the absolute worst camera in this price range for the stated needs... no NDs, super high media and power costs, heavy, and he wouldn't even be able to get it up and running for less than $6K anyways.

It sounds like the C100II would be the best option, maybe with a recorder for slower shoots. C300 doesn't seem at all worth it with the C100II still being cheaper.

FS5 being a close second, or even first pick, depending on how important super slo-mo and 4K is to you. Or how useful the variable ND would be on your docs (I imagine in bright sunny Mexico, seamlessly moving from inside to outside without skipping a beat or going super-deep-DOF, would be pretty useful).

I was looking at the price of the 4K... So good call. But the weight and cards aren't really an issue since he's considering a used C300. And I really don't see how turning some external ND filters could possibly be a deal breaker, but I do agree that the C100 mkii is the best choice.

[Dave Maze]

I'm getting a 1DC AND a C100 mkii. Yay!!! Haha. Thanks guys for your help. I'm super pumped. 

1 hour ago, aldolega said:

That would be the absolute worst camera in this price range for the stated needs... no NDs, super high media and power costs, heavy, and he wouldn't even be able to get it up and running for less than $6K anyways.

It sounds like the C100II would be the best option, maybe with a recorder for slower shoots. C300 doesn't seem at all worth it with the C100II still being cheaper.

FS5 being a close second, or even first pick, depending on how important super slo-mo and 4K is to you. Or how useful the variable ND would be on your docs (I imagine in bright sunny Mexico, seamlessly moving from inside to outside without skipping a beat or going super-deep-DOF, would be pretty useful).

I didn't know this about the c100 mk2. A much better camera than the c300 for sure. SDI is an important thing and honestly you forgot to mention three other things that I love about it:

1. the backlit LCD on the back that shows audio levels and all your important info. 

2. The control dials that are everyone on it. 

3. The headphone control on the side of the body (although I may map the two function buttons on the c100 m2 to be that.)

I think by having both the c100 m2 and a 1dc I'll have everything I need for the next year at least. 1dc for gimbal work and 4K for narrative content. C100 m2 for doc stuff and interviews where we need internal audio. Plus 1dc for Timelapse and professional stills! 

[aldolega]

15 hours ago, mercer said:

But the weight and cards aren't really an issue since he's considering a used C300. And I really don't see how turning some external ND filters could possibly be a deal breaker, but I do agree that the C100 mkii is the best choice.

The C300 is 6lbs with everything- side grip, top handle, screen, cards, battery. The UM4.6K is 5lbs before adding a viewfinder, top handle, big ol' V-lock battery (and mounting plate!), or cards.

The C300 takes regular CF cards- much cheaper than CFast- and at 50mbps, versus even whatever the lightest ProRes the Mini will do (~200mbps?), they'll go a lot farther.

This isn't even getting into low-light, battery run-time, or reliability issues, where the Canons will easily trump the BlackMagic.

"Just turning an ND filter" sounds great until you need no ND at all, and can't stop your shot because you're filming something that won't wait for you.

[mercer]

18 minutes ago, aldolega said:

The C300 is 6lbs with everything- side grip, top handle, screen, cards, battery. The UM4.6K is 5lbs before adding a viewfinder, top handle, big ol' V-lock battery (and mounting plate!), or cards.

The C300 takes regular CF cards- much cheaper than CFast- and at 50mbps, versus even whatever the lightest ProRes the Mini will do (~200mbps?), they'll go a lot farther.

This isn't even getting into low-light, battery run-time, or reliability issues, where the Canons will easily trump the BlackMagic.

"Just turning an ND filter" sounds great until you need no ND at all, and can't stop your shot because you're filming something that won't wait for you.

I'm just saying if I had the choice between the C300 or the Ursa Mini, I would consider the Ursa Mini... An extra pound or two and some extra media costs wouldn't change that. Of course, I have never shot a professional documentary... So what the hell do I know. But I am glad we both agree that the C100 mkii was the best choice. 

[bzpop]

don't buy C100, i mean it's OK camera  if there is no budget for any better, from your list i would probably go with C300,

take a look at 1DXmkII, it was made for one man crew, not as good as A7S in low light but ISO6400 is clean, autofocus is a snap, and 4K files look amazing, i'm gonna do side by side with epic, they are very close. The only thing cfast2 is kinda pricey,