I have $6k. Need a camera this week. Help me decide.

[independent]

It really depends on your needs. A documentary could mean dodging bullets or establishing shots and interviews. A music video and narrative, the same. 

The content should dictate what kind of camera you use. 

Then consider the production costs and needs. Your crew, lighting and sound. Different cameras have different needs. 

Lastly, post production costs and delivery matters. 

All of these should factor into your decision. 

But honestly, your demands are broad enough to NOT buy. There is no magical camera that rules them all. All of them involve compromises. 

It's not a sexy answer, but put your money into talent and crew. A lot of camera ops and sound mixers/boom ops are also available as wet hires. They bring their own gear, and they're skilled at using them. Many of them market themselves with their gear, so you can also vet them based on what cameras they have and use. 

It'll be a lot better than throwing a new camera at some guy and telling him to figure it out, because you read that it was the bees knees on an Internet forum. 

Think about the quirks of all these cameras. Ergonomically, menu-wise, and some things that you have to know only if you understand the full process of capturing and delivering that image. That only comes from experience, so put your money towards experience and skill, and the only thing more important than that is letting the content dictate everything. It'll make you a better storyteller and filmmaker. 

 

 

 

[jax_rox]

2 hours ago, independent said:

It really depends on your needs. A documentary could mean dodging bullets or establishing shots and interviews. A music video and narrative, the same.

100% this. Many people tend to equate documentary with running around and grabbing what you can as it happens, but in reality there are plenty of documentaries that consist of lit, staged interviews, staged shots or re-enactments, establishing shots, slow-mo and B-roll that you can get a few shots at.

A music video could be a few shots of the band performing, or it could be a high-production value narrative-style video that's fully lit and with a large amount of support gear.

As always.... it depends  

[Dave Maze]

I was about to pull the trigger on a 1dc and a c100 mkii...but then it really hit me...these are both old cameras. Old tech. The MJPEG is an annoyance in field. I remember using one in Haiti and how much time it took to convert to ProRes. So annoying. Im really thinking of just renting a C300 mk2 now and calling it a day and pocketing the cash for later...

The doc in Mexico will be with a pretty high profile musician and we have crew and will be lighting things so I am really leaning towards having the best possible image due to our content. The C300 mk2 price drop is really appealing to me....I leave Monday....Ill let you know what I decide. Gotta buy or rent probably tomorrow! 

[jax_rox]

11 minutes ago, DaveAltizer said:

I was about to pull the trigger on a 1dc and a c100 mkii...but then it really hit me...these are both old cameras. Old tech. The MJPEG is an annoyance in field. I remember using one in Haiti and how much time it took to convert to ProRes. So annoying. Im really thinking of just renting a C300 mk2 now and calling it a day and pocketing the cash for later...

The doc in Mexico will be with a pretty high profile musician and we have crew and will be lighting things so I am really leaning towards having the best possible image due to our content. The C300 mk2 price drop is really appealing to me....I leave Monday....Ill let you know what I decide. Gotta buy or rent probably tomorrow! 

Sounds like renting's probably your best option, and will likely serve you better anyway. You'll be able to customise the things you need a lot better and easier than having to cobble together parts on a limited budget (and can potentially shoot on a better camera/lens combo to boot!)

[mercer]

9 hours ago, DaveAltizer said:

I was about to pull the trigger on a 1dc and a c100 mkii...but then it really hit me...these are both old cameras. Old tech. The MJPEG is an annoyance in field. I remember using one in Haiti and how much time it took to convert to ProRes. So annoying. Im really thinking of just renting a C300 mk2 now and calling it a day and pocketing the cash for later...

The doc in Mexico will be with a pretty high profile musician and we have crew and will be lighting things so I am really leaning towards having the best possible image due to our content. The C300 mk2 price drop is really appealing to me....I leave Monday....Ill let you know what I decide. Gotta buy or rent probably tomorrow! 

Since it is with a high profile musician, why not rent the C300 ii and buy the C100 mkii for B-roll or in case something happens with the C300. But I don't know if the rental cost and purchase cost exceeds your budget? If you can swing it, the C100 mkii, at the current price is just a money maker... Or maybe even an XC10. You can do a lot with that little guy.

[ricardo_sousa11]

If I had that cash, def I'd pick the Fs5, its an absolut beast from what I hear, and very very versatile.

[Kurtisso]

I just saw a c500 on ebay for $5700 this week... 

[neosushi]

 

On 06/07/2016 at 5:03 PM, ricardo_sousa11 said:

If I had that cash, def I'd pick the Fs5, its an absolut beast from what I hear, and very very versatile.

But beware of the internal codec :/ Played with it for a day and found the slog3 very noisy too... But the form factor is really great - not so great when you add a shogun on top :'( 

[Geoff CB]

16 hours ago, neosushi said:

 

But beware of the internal codec :/ Played with it for a day and found the slog3 very noisy too... But the form factor is really great - not so great when you add a shogun on top :'( 

I never understand this.

Just because you shoot on Sony does not mean you have to shoot in S-LOG. Do people shooting the C100 always shoot in C-log? No they shoot in Wide DR or other modes as well. It's for if your using a colorist in post. Just shoot in Cine 1 and get a good look out of camera with some flexibility in post.

[neosushi]

18 minutes ago, Geoff CB said:

I never understand this.

Just because you shoot on Sony does not mean you have to shoot in S-LOG. Do people shooting the C100 always shoot in C-log? No they shoot in Wide DR or other modes as well. It's for if your using a colorist in post. Just shoot in Cine 1 and get a good look out of camera with some flexibility in post.

 

Isn't the SLog designed to get the most DR out of your camera ? 

[Geoff CB]

11 hours ago, neosushi said:

 

Isn't the SLog designed to get the most DR out of your camera ? 

Yes but that does not mean you have to shoot in that mode in every situation. You can get great stuff out of S-LOG, but if you want a quick look for interviews or other things with a quick turn around shoot in one of the other modes.

[neosushi]

4 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

Yes but that does not mean you have to shoot in that mode in every situation. You can get great stuff out of S-LOG, but if you want a quick look for interviews or other things with a quick turn around shoot in one of the other modes.

I wasnt looking for a quick look - on the contrary. I just didnt find the slog very clean after grading. Maybe I didnt ETTR enough, but i protected the highlights on my actress face. Turned out the whole image had noise in dark areas after grading. Id be interested if someone had a better experience with it.

[Ed_David]

On 7/5/2016 at 9:14 PM, Ebrahim Saadawi said:

First of all. You've shot on Canon C300/system for sometime and your new camera is going to real pro work next week, so switching to a whole other brand/system is not really a good decision! Whole new menus, buttons, image quality, picture settings, grading, ergonomics, etc.


-Cx00 cameras are hand down the best and most used documentary/run and gun type camera that you're going to do. So it's an obvious first choice. And it's a very unique system in that you can get it and shoot next week confident of all the little bits of the camera system. 



Between the C300 Mark One and the C100 MKII, 


C300 MKI has the following:

-50mbps 4:2:2 MPEG-2 codec (not much image difference but UK broadcasters require it. Can be obtained from C100 with recorder) 

-CF cards vs SD Cards. (bigger and harder to lose?)

-HD-SDI output and Genlock (C100 has HDMI only) 

-ND filters are electronically operated (C100 with a wheel, not a button)


C100 MKII has the following:

-Newer better design/ergonomics (tilty screen, lighter, more assignable buttons, better placement of settings)

-A newer, more sophisticated downsampling algorithm from the sensor, resulting in better high ISO performance and better colours. It's a subtle but good difference side by side.

(PS: for techis: C300/C100 original take the sensor pixels and downsamples directly from 4K resolution into HD. R,G,B with two G pixels they call "Super Greens", a good direct method. C100 MKII with a beefier processor, splits the 4K sensor readout into 3 different 4K streams, R and G and B, then downsamples those three 4K streams into HD, basically a higher performance downsampling method they created to up image quality a bit)

-60p at 1080p (vs 720p only on C300)

-More advanced DPAF (has face detection using the great STM lenses) 

-2000-3000$ less. 


So if you want one of these, choose which features you require. I'd say for your situation the C100 MKII is best especially for the sharp slowmotion option. But if you REQUIRE an SDI output for an example then the C300 is a must. Both have the same sensor, same EVF, same body metal and same sealing, etc. It's ONLY those aforementioned differences. 




About the 1DC.

It's a DSLR. That's the key point here. A DSLR like the 5D you used once for sure. Can you shoot ahead with that? 

It's my favorite camera of all time and I spend a lot, and I mean A LOT to get one for my company, triple the price of a new unit (country customs) reproaching epic/F55 territory in price. But I like this more, because it's a DSLR that shoots the most beautiful motion I've seen/shot.

Is it for you? 

I don't think so.

My work is hardly documentary, and for documentary, a 1DC is not a practical camera.

-It doesn't have the lovely tilty EVF and tilty LCD of the C100 containing zebras/peaking/waveform (major benefits when shooting doc. style).

-It doesn't have the extremely high end sound recording system of the C100 with two XLR inputs and a high quality 3.5mm input and physical knobs so most likely the 1DC will require an external audio recorder unless audio is not critical to your audience/work.

-It doesn't have the immediate ND filteration you can put with a touch, you have to sit down and screw on a variable ND on the lens which does affect colour slightly unless very high end ones.

-It doesn't have the big beefy batteries that last 4 hours, but 45min-ish ones and you'll carry spares, and switch off liveview between shots. 

-If you'll shoot in 4K, the media cost and size is through the roof. And I mean, through the ROOF. You'll pay as much as the camera for a documentary shoot. Not kidding. But you have a lovely s35 option similar to C100 with CLog (I use it a lot, more than 4K, but it's tempting and makes you shoot 4K and buy more media!).

-One major factor to have in mind is that the 1DC can go into rain and dust and shoot anywhere while the Cx00 will die with rain drops (happened).

-1DC slowmotion is very bad compared to the C100 MKII 60p which is one of the best 60p images out there. Very soft 60p.  


Choose your poison!

First off...your countrys customs are at 4 percent which is standard.

 

Pixels do not downstream from 4k to hd. that makes zero sense.  Pixels are pixels.  There is debayering and how the sebsor processes these pixels. How it gets its read out.

 

I think.

But what you are saying makes no sense.