The 4K Fuji X-T2 is here

[Taranis]

6 minutes ago, Django said:

 

Indeed, and you'd think reviewers or even Fuji would mention this rather major issue with it's kit lens.. i didn't even know lenses had FW updates tbh.. speaking of which i found the following page rather cryptic (only a .DAT file and zero instructions?):

http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/software/firmware/lens/xf18-55mm/download.html

 

 

It's here: http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/software/firmware/lens/xf18-55mm/

[jonpais]

11 minutes ago, Django said:

 

Indeed, and you'd think reviewers or even Fuji would mention this rather major issue with it's kit lens.. i didn't even know lenses had FW updates tbh.. speaking of which i found the following page rather cryptic (only a .DAT file and zero instructions?):

http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/software/firmware/lens/xf18-55mm/download.html

 

 

Here's the page explaining the update procedure.  First, hold the DISP down while turning the camera on. The screen will show the latest firmware for both body and lens.

[Inazuma]

Yes it is interesting nobody mentioned the lack of exposure aids. I suppose a lot of people (myself included) only rely on the the LCD and exposure meter. 

There are a lot of quirks with this camera but I'm forgiving it all for the image.  It's just stellar. With Provia and -1 highlights/shadows, the colour is just so pleasing. One thing people should be aware of btw is that depending on your video player and settings, the video may seem a lot more contrasty than it's supposed to be. It looks fine when imported into Premiere or Resolve tho.

Regarding switching between movies and video. I think if  you intend to do that a lot you may want to consider switching between bracket ans video, which is just one click instead of the multiple ones to get to Single shot.

[Trek of Joy]

Doing some traveling with the XT2, here's a screencap, shot from the bridge in Sydney Harbor. This is Classic Chome SOOC 4k/30p. Wish there were more clouds and a little less haze. Good color is so effortless with the XT2. Love.

 

[TheRenaissanceMan]

13 hours ago, Django said:

 

Indeed, and you'd think reviewers or even Fuji would mention this rather major issue with it's kit lens.. i didn't even know lenses had FW updates tbh.. speaking of which i found the following page rather cryptic (only a .DAT file and zero instructions?):

http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/software/firmware/lens/xf18-55mm/download.html

 

 

Both Fuji and a video review of the X-T2 mentioned it. Maybe a little more research might be in order?

[Taranis]

Could someone with German knowledge explain what this comparison is?

https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Tips/Wissenswertes-zu-FUJIFILM-F-Log---F-Log-in-der-Praxis.html#F_Log

 

[jonpais]

51 minutes ago, Taranis said:

Could someone with German knowledge explain what this comparison is?

https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Tips/Wissenswertes-zu-FUJIFILM-F-Log---F-Log-in-der-Praxis.html#F_Log

 

This is from Google Translate:

F-Log in practice

In this external log mode, the camera can practically no longer be adjusted in the picture characteristic (and probably not only) in our sense. Only the sharpness can still be changed, but we recommend that you adjust it to the desired cinematic look. In F-Log, the minimum ISO starts with ISO800, which should probably represent the base ISO of the FUJIFILM X-T2 in log mode.

After our first test recordings, we were disappointed: the shadows in each shot flashed enormously, but this was not explained by the lighting or the exposure. After our sharpness test measurements were also significantly worse than in the internal recording, we became skeptical. In fact, although a 4K data stream s. HDMI output is, if the camera is internally set to 4K, however, this is filled by the FUJI X-T2 only with a kind of highly scaled fullHD. That made us baffled.

Only by chance did we encounter the following behavior: Although the camera can not record to the internal map, if the camera is set to 4K-F-Log. However, the HDMI output still outputs the signal in "filled" 4K, if one at the camera the recording triggers, which in turn is possible, even if a card is in the camera. In this case, the camera signals an internal 4K recording, but does not land any files on the card. At the same time, the camera (if activated in the menu) can also start and stop the external Atomos recorder, which is why one should get used to this procedure urgently, in order not to erroneously record the "worse" 4K signal, which consists only of high-scaled HD resolution.

But not only the resolution differs in the two modes, the color quantization also increases significantly (which ultimately also brought us to the 10-bit thoughts). Here is a picture of the 4K-HDMI-Log signal with and without triggered "internal" recording.

On the right you can see the "dirty" signal, if the camera has not triggered the flame recording and left the clean signal. By the way, in the "dirty" output also still some digital audio disturbances can be recorded. So if you listen to the recording crack in the audio channel, rather check again, whether the camera also an internal 4K recording is indicated.

ONV, who shared F-log sample footage last week on Vimeo, has this to say:

I didn't really put the X-T2 through any rigorous stress-tests but I found it curious that you only get a proper signal from it over HDMI when you hit the record (shutter) button of the camera body. Only then a proper full-resolution picture is being send to the recorder (if you don't start "recording" on the camera body you only get a mushy looking lo-res preview image). So I imagine that it doesn't really matter wether you are recording to the SD card or sending the signal through the HDMI out since the X-T2 seems to be doing the very same thing in both cases (short of recording anything to the SD card when in HDMI mode, that is). So the limits are most likely the same as with in-camera recording (10 min w/o grip and 30 min with it IIRC). But that is just conjecture. Maybe I can get around to testing that next week. cheers!

So, it looks as though F-Log is limited to 8-bit, the user must be careful that he is actually recording F-Log, maybe some recorders don't behave the same way with the output, shadows are noisy (as usual)... and buy some strong ND filters, because you'll be shooting at ISO 800.

 

[Django]

9 hours ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

Both Fuji and a video review of the X-T2 mentioned it. Maybe a little more research might be in order?

believe me i did some pretty extensive research including my own testing of the product.. except not with the kit lens. i simply couldn't fathom this type of issue with the kit lens. anyways thanks to those that helped, the FW update seems to have taken care of the issue, which was driving me crazy..

looks like F-log has got it's own set of quirks. basically a lot of issues related to video seem to need fixing which isn't all that surprising considering how recent Fuji's video development has been. so it feels a bit like early adopter beta testing using an XT2 for serious video, which has me a little bit nervous i'll admit.. then again you'd have told me just a year ago i'd be buying a Fuji for video i would have called you insane!

all that being said, i don't wanna sound like i'm bashing it. who knows i might even keep it. build quality is definitely ace. lens line up is solid. color science & auto white balance are tops. film simulations + highlight/shadow settings are really fun to play around with. the 4k codec seems efficient and easy to work with. i'd just like a nice update with internal F-log, zebras/histogram and perhaps a little smoother AF tracking so this camera could be on par with the competition.

 

[jonpais]

I didn't buy the kit lens, but I have watched a ton of videos and read bunches of reviews, and I don't recall a single one mentioning a problem with it either. Glad to hear the lens is working for you now.

[jasonmillard81]

Just pulled the trigger and got my A-Cam for Photography (now paired with a c100 mark II for video) I am a happy camper.  I've yet to get a chance to shoot more than 5 minutes with it but already the codec and video's intrinsic characteristics are way more appealing than my GH4 and to be honest the SOOC colors are better than what I'm able to do with my C100 II.  That being said, I'm very amateur in my knowledge and experience and have seen phenomenal C100 II color, I just need to learn how to use it.  

I went with the 18-55 lens and will use that until I decide what focal lengths and speed I desire most.  I was very attracted to the 15-140 (2.8).  Again this will be probably used more than the C100 II (which will be relegated to more projects/mini docs).

Any good forums for photography and fuji cameras?

[jonpais]

1 hour ago, Django said:

believe me i did some pretty extensive research including my own testing of the product.. except not with the kit lens. i simply couldn't fathom this type of issue with the kit lens. anyways thanks to those that helped, the FW update seems to have taken care of the issue, which was driving me crazy..

looks like F-log has got it's own set of quirks. basically a lot of issues related to video seem to need fixing which isn't all that surprising considering how recent Fuji's video development has been. so it feels a bit like early adopter beta testing using an XT2 for serious video, which has me a little bit nervous i'll admit.. then again you'd have told me just a year ago i'd be buying a Fuji for video i would have called you insane!

all that being said, i don't wanna sound like i'm bashing it. who knows i might even keep it. build quality is definitely ace. lens line up is solid. color science & auto white balance are tops. film simulations + highlight/shadow settings are really fun to play around with. the 4k codec seems efficient and easy to work with. i'd just like a nice update with internal F-log, zebras/histogram and perhaps a little smoother AF tracking so this camera could be on par with the competition.

 

I never paid much attention to Fuji since my main interest is in video, but I knew they were awesome when it came to updates (from reading Imaging Resource). So I wouldn't be surprised if they added a bunch of goodies for us. I just finished watching this video from a couple months ago about a firmware update for the X Pro 2, and it makes me very hopeful.

[Django]

2 hours ago, jonpais said:

I never paid much attention to Fuji since my main interest is in video, but I knew they were awesome when it came to updates (from reading Imaging Resource). So I wouldn't be surprised if they added a bunch of goodies for us. I just finished watching this video from a couple months ago about a firmware update for the X Pro 2, and it makes me very hopeful.

that does give hope,  i'm also aware of their good update reputation ("kaizen" approach) but it's more a question of when then if. first firmware release couple days ago is pretty underwhelming aside from bug fixes..

also this video around XT2 release seem to indicate Fuji is serious about video development:

 

2 hours ago, jasonmillard81 said:

Just pulled the trigger and got my A-Cam for Photography (now paired with a c100 mark II for video) I am a happy camper.  I've yet to get a chance to shoot more than 5 minutes with it but already the codec and video's intrinsic characteristics are way more appealing than my GH4 and to be honest the SOOC colors are better than what I'm able to do with my C100 II.  That being said, I'm very amateur in my knowledge and experience and have seen phenomenal C100 II color, I just need to learn how to use it.  

I'm also a C100 user and have done a couple A/B tests this weekend. the color science is different, just as it is also with Nikon and other brands. 

Preference is subjective, but what you shoot may also have an impact. I still think Canon rule for skin tones, but I also like the more neutral Nikon/Fuji look for landscape etc..

But once I engage the various Log and Wide DR profiles on the C100, the Fuji can't compete. The Fuji sims are all quite baked in, almost as if a LUT was applied.

 

[TheRenaissanceMan]

6 hours ago, jonpais said:

I didn't buy the kit lens, but I have watched a ton of videos and read bunches of reviews, and I don't recall a single one mentioning a problem with it either. Glad to hear the lens is working for you now.

Most popular review of the X-T2's video functions. 12:42. And the manufacturer's website.

I guess I'm just confused. Do people not update their firmware when they buy new gear?

[jonpais]

[jonpais]

First impressions (cross-posted at my blog)

After my rant last night about the lack of meaningful exposure aids on the Fuji X-T2, I've settled down a little, and had my first opportunity to actually go out and grab a few clips with it, along with the Fujinon 16-55mm f/2.8 lens. It's been drizzling all day, so I couldn't do much shooting. Where should I begin? Let's start with the body - while other manufacturers boast of a magnesium alloy body, some of them are housed in shoddy plastic that makes them feel like Fisher Price toys made in China. Because the knobs and buttons aren't engraved metal, the lettering wears away with time. Buttons feel mushy and don't give reassuring feedback when pressed. The X-T2, on the other hand, looks and feels as though it was sculpted out of one solid block of metal. The buttons are all 'clicky' and will probably give years of dependable service. While I seldom use one since most of what I shoot is video, the sound of the mechanical shutter and the sensation of the shutter button when depressed is positively thrilling compared to the rather pedestrian implementation on my GH4. The LCD screen is supremely clear and bright, and with magnification enabled, those with better eyesight than mine may feel peaking while manually focusing is altogether unnecessary.

Still, some filmmakers will deplore the retro physical controls on the Fuji because their sound will be picked up by the microphone. And touchscreen is not an option. The new lock on the latch to the SD compartment might be more secure, but it is more cumbersome to use than that of the GH4, which only requires a slight pressure and sliding movement of the forefinger. Regrettably, the metering and drive dials, as well as the focus mode selector are very awkwardly placed; and the camera settings displayed in the viewfinder are absurdly small and difficult to read comfortably without eyestrain: not at all unlike going to the optometrist and being asked to read the very first row of letters. That goes for the EV meter as well, though I found it to be quite reliable: in fact, I have so much confidence in it, that I find I'm no longer bracketing every shot like I typically do with the Lumix. But I still entertain the hope that Fuji will release a firmware update enabling the histogram in movie mode.

For my first lens, I decided to go with the closest equivalent to a full frame 24-70mm with constant f/2.8 aperture (which every manufacturer has in their catalogue, and none of them are dogs) because I really can't tolerate variable aperture kit lenses. Shooting 4K video (which crops the image a further 1.17x), the zoom range is more like 27-94mm, meaning it will be good for everything from street photography to portraiture. One thing I find peculiar is that some of the very same people in video forums who are always complaining about low light sensitivity are perfectly willing to settle for a kit lens whose widest aperture at the long end is f/4. Like the camera body, the lens is made of metal and weather sealed, and it even has an aperture ring (!), something which many other manufacturers have bewilderingly concluded photographers no longer need. Edge-to-edge sharpness is far better than I'd expected from just reading the benchmarks, in fact, it's f*** incredible. At the same time, the lens does not have OIS, so filmmakers will either have to have nerves of steel or use a monopod. And the lens is monstrous, so you many need to purchase an L bracket just in order to mount it to your tripod.

All the clips were shot using AWB, which I've never trusted the Lumix to get right, but which the Fuji handles superbly. And while the Fuji sensor has no AA filter, aliasing and moire are very well controlled. If you look closely at the power lines in the shots below, you'll see traces of aliasing. The final shot in my room was taken at ISO 1,600, which would be utter folly to attempt with my GH4. It must be said, however, that the actual measured ISOs of both the Panasonic and Fuji cameras are considerably lower than their settings would indicate. Unlike the micro four thirds system, which practically necessitates fast glass or focal reducers to shoot in low light, the Fuji can easily get by with higher ISOs and f/2 or f/2.8 lenses. Anyhow, the whole process seemed so effortless, from focusing to white balance to exposure to editing - in fact, I didn't do any color correction at all - that my impression of the camera is overwhelmingly positive. Touch screen and IBIS be damned!

[Taranis]

I'm not sure if it was mentioned earlier, but face detection only seems to work in 1080p. See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xm0EMQB9ws

 

[Django]

13 hours ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

I guess I'm just confused. Do people not update their firmware when they buy new gear?

Maybe I've been spoiled by Canon/Nikon, but no I've never had to update firmware out of the box for basic operational usability (although that seems to unfortunately become the norm with everything electronic these days).

Furthermore, again I wasn't even aware lenses had or could be FW updated! Then again most of my glass is vintage Nikkor and my Canon stabilized lenses always worked fine right of the box. 

Maybe I've been lucky? Or maybe Fuji dropped the ball on this one. The 18-55 OIS kit lens isn't even new, it's the same then on XT1. So I'm sorry but I feel the blame is on them for not testing and not the user for not having searched every second of every review video..

Anyways let's bury that subject since issue has been resolved.

@jonpais Speaking of the kit lens, I was actually positively surprised by it (above issue withstanding) yes it isn't constant aperture which I also despise but it does have OIS which seems kinda invaluable for handheld work, especially in 4K where micro shakes are increased. It's also really well built (as most Fuji lenses) with aperture wheel which can be set to automatic or manual. It feels fly by wire so it's really smooth which is great for video. Optically it's also quite excellent. For only 300 extra it's kind of a no-brainer although if I keep the camera I will of course purchase primes which is what I favor shooting with. Nice review btw, and glad you're getting along with the camera!

Could be Honeymoon phase but there is definitely something different and unique about the Fuji experience.. it doesn't feel like just a tool like Sony's for example..

[Lars Steenhoff]

one thing i dont like is the zoom image preview with the click wheel, i wish this could be moved to another button.

[jonpais]

6 hours ago, Taranis said:

I'm not sure if it was mentioned earlier, but face detection only seems to work in 1080p. See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xm0EMQB9ws

 

Correct. 

I got the vertical power booster today and some other accessories. And to my surprise, I like it! From the billions of reviews I read, I expected to absolutely hate the piece of plastic that fits over the camera body's grip. I don't think it's at all necessary, but so far, it appears to fit and feels just fine. That is, until you start carrying it - with the 16-55mm f/2.8 and power booster, the camera is starting to weigh a ton. One thing's for sure though, the GH4 has some magic when it comes to battery life. Now, I'm going to check and see if I'm supposed to update the firmware or something...

[Inazuma]

Does anyone else have the 18-55 + one other lens? I swear with AF-C in video this lens carries on hunting after locking focus a lot more than my 23 and 35.