Super Members BTM_Pix Posted April 19, 2017 Super Members Share Posted April 19, 2017 Short comp of the other 3 clips including the wide dynamic range restaurant one. 4K ProRes 422LT as per the originals. https://mega.nz/#!57Q3RAIZ!XJ6vaaX6FizxjPlbn8lJhhYgtP8pg0o1fbCBql-2N5g Taranis and Inazuma 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inazuma Posted April 19, 2017 Share Posted April 19, 2017 @BTM_Pix Thanks, just had a little play around with that footage. I think you would benefit from exposing to 90 or 95 IRE rather than 100. I am not able to retrieve much colour information in the brightest parts of the image. Also can you just clarify whether or not this post has the images ordered as FLOG then ProNeg or FLOG then FLOG graded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted April 19, 2017 Super Members Share Posted April 19, 2017 47 minutes ago, Inazuma said: @BTM_Pix Thanks, just had a little play around with that footage. I think you would benefit from exposing to 90 or 95 IRE rather than 100. I am not able to retrieve much colour information in the brightest parts of the image. Also can you just clarify whether or not this post has the images ordered as FLOG then ProNeg or FLOG then FLOG graded? I absolutely agree. I exposed it as that purely to get it up that high so people wouldn't say "but..but...you didn't use the whole range" But also as a test to check that if I was going to go that high that the meters on the Ninja Inferno had a basis in reality when the footage was brought into FCPX. Incidentally, I wish it had a different name as I have to type 'Ninja Inferno' very slowly and deliberately as it just morphs into Disco Inferno in my head! As for the original post, yes, its FLOG then ProNegStd (-2,-2) so people could compare FLOG against a vanilla OOC look. And to see if they could then make it look better obviously. Spoiler alert, I could make it look the same and different but not sure if 'better' would describe it necessarily. Inazuma 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 13 hours ago, Inazuma said: @BTM_Pix Thanks, just had a little play around with that footage. I think you would benefit from exposing to 90 or 95 IRE rather than 100. I am not able to retrieve much colour information in the brightest parts of the image. Also can you just clarify whether or not this post has the images ordered as FLOG then ProNeg or FLOG then FLOG graded? Can this be the reason of what I see here? I applied a curve to the ProNeg Std JPG posted earlier, to see what's in the highlights. The sky is not pretty but this is a compressed JPG. And I tried to grade the F-Log footage to something similar, and the sky is ugly with lots of artifacts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted April 20, 2017 Super Members Share Posted April 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Taranis said: Can this be the reason of what I see here? I applied a curve to the ProNeg Std JPG posted earlier, to see what's in the highlights. The sky is not pretty but this is a compressed JPG. And I tried to grade the F-Log footage to something similar, and the sky is ugly with lots of artifacts. Yes, it will be. As I said earlier, it was exposed to 100 deliberately to see what could be done with that in mind. Did you use the Fuji LUT in combination with any of your corrections ? I found that using that and reducing the saturation in the highlights was slightly more effective but it is an awful lot of work - for me at least - to get back to where you could have started already by just using the in built profiles. For what I'm going to be doing with it where I'll need quick turnaround (and because I always end up down a rabbit hole with colouring) having ProNegStd (-2,-2) ready to go in ProRes is the more useful function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Yes, I tried both Fuji LUTs. I played many hours with the F-Log footage posted so far. I really wanted to see how it compares to ProNeg Std as I was about to purchase a Ninja Inferno. Now I'm in doubt. I could get decent results with F-Log and I liked what I saw but when I compared it to ProNeg Std, it was not better at all, just a bit different. I just don't see anything with F-Log that can't be done with ProNeg Std, unless you really need those extra stops. I'd still like to see some F-Log footage exposed to 90-95 IRE, but I doubt it would be different. Above middle gray the F-Log curve is almost a straight line so you won't have more code values between stops in the highlights. So a Ninja Inferno would be good for two things. First, for monitoring, but there are cheaper (and smaller) options for that. Second, for ProRes 4:2:2 recording, but I'm yet to see a comparison between ProNeg Std -2,-2 4:2:0 internal and 4:2:2 external. I wonder if there is any noticable benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted April 20, 2017 Super Members Share Posted April 20, 2017 7 minutes ago, Taranis said: Yes, I tried both Fuji LUTs. I played many hours with the F-Log footage posted so far. I really wanted to see how it compares to ProNeg Std as I was about to purchase a Ninja Inferno. Now I'm in doubt. I could get decent results with F-Log and I liked what I saw but when I compared it to ProNeg Std, it was not better at all, just a bit different. I just don't see anything with F-Log that can't be done with ProNeg Std, unless you really need those extra stops. I'd still like to see some F-Log footage exposed to 90-95 IRE, but I doubt it would be different. Above middle gray the F-Log curve is almost a straight line so you won't have more code values between stops in the highlights. So a Ninja Inferno would be good for two things. First, for monitoring, but there are cheaper (and smaller) options for that. Second, for ProRes 4:2:2 recording, but I'm yet to see a comparison between ProNeg Std -2,-2 4:2:0 internal and 4:2:2 external. I wonder if there is any noticable benefit. The ProRes advantage for me isn't necessarily quality based (I suspect that it will be small) but to just be able to connect the SSD and get on editing without transcoding. Thats another advantage in terms of throughput to using the ProNegStd -2/-2 if I'm not having to add the same number of corrections. I was baulking at the price in comparison to the BM Video Assist 4K as its not far off double when you hustle for a deal on the BM but the 4K60p was a differentiator (I'm not just using it for the X-T2 and you never know with Fuji they may add that with firmware!) as was the much more comprehensive metering and the brighter screen. If I was just using it for the X-T2 then, yes, I would much prefer a 5 inch screen but the PIX-E5 is almost 50% more again and doesn't have the 4K60p capability. If I get a chance I'll do an internal/external comparison with ProNegStd -2/-2 at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said: If I get a chance I'll do an internal/external comparison with ProNegStd -2/-2 at some point. Thanks, that would be nice! I was considering the BM Video Assist 4K too, but I read too many reviews about it being unstable. And yeah, if you can get a 4K60p capable recorder for a little more money, it's reasonable to save up for that one, as a recorder can easily outlive a camera body. BTM_Pix 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted April 20, 2017 Super Members Share Posted April 20, 2017 For completeness, here is a (very) short compilation extract of a couple of the shots as they were recorded to the Ninja Assassin using the ProNegStd -2/-2 profile in 4K ProRes 422LT https://mega.nz/#!dj5AWagD!_TgG79KA4Z21eJHTMoUPj3cYBQ2HNb60oLRE6m79dxU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 32 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said: For completeness, here is a (very) short compilation extract of a couple of the shots as they were recorded to the Ninja Assassin using the ProNegStd -2/-2 profile in 4K ProRes 422LT https://mega.nz/#!dj5AWagD!_TgG79KA4Z21eJHTMoUPj3cYBQ2HNb60oLRE6m79dxU Thanks. For the boat scene I prefer the ProNeg Std version, the restaurant scene was the only one where I found F-log to be useful: This is F-Log (not a proper grade, just pushed DR for comparison): And this is ProNeg Std, if you try to achieve the same: Lots of noise. However, in situations like this you can let the background blow out a bit, or light the scene if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokhee Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 not too shabby! the video was shot with the X-T2. looks pretty damn good to me. Kubrickian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitaCam Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 For anyone wondering whether the VA 7in 4K is a tad unwieldy on the X-T2... jonpais, Trek of Joy, Rodolfo Fernandes and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taranis Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Uh, that's massive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trek of Joy Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 19 minutes ago, KitaCam said: For anyone wondering whether the VA 7in 4K is a tad unwieldy on the X-T2... That poor little gorillapod... jonpais and Kubrickian 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitaCam Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 That's a big Gorillapod! Some more shots of the SmallRig cage.... Kubrickian and Trek of Joy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubrickian Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Can I ask about focus lock on/off in video mode? Does the X-T2 let you push the AF-Lock button to toggle this? So you can kind of do an electronic focus pull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 20 hours ago, tokhee said: not too shabby! the video was shot with the X-T2. looks pretty damn good to me. Not surprising. The X-T2 is one of the best APS-C cameras out there. @Trek of Joy Catch this clip at 3:01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KitaCam Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 36 minutes ago, Kubrickian said: Can I ask about focus lock on/off in video mode? Does the X-T2 let you push the AF-Lock button to toggle this? So you can kind of do an electronic focus pull. Correct me if i'm misinterpreting (or if there's a setting I've not found), though in (M) manual mode (via MCS switch on front), it seems you can only use the AF-L button before pressing record. So pressing AF-L during record has no effect. However, when selecting the (S) single focus mode (via MCS switch again), then you can press the shutter/record button (whilst recording) to do the focus pull once you've moved the green focus point/square (using the toggle) to the new area you want to focus upon. 2 hours ago, Trek of Joy said: That poor little gorillapod... Another couple of comments about this image are that the mic location is clearly not sensible as it is. Really placed there to give an idea of scale also. For one it's too cramped, but also as the VA has a rear fan, i imagine it's best to keep the mic as far from this as possible when recording in 4K (thinking the fan will run more heavily then?). I'm yet to test 4K because of the fun and games surrounding the need to source expensive, fast and tested as compatible (by BM) SD cards.. Kubrickian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil A Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 16 minutes ago, jonpais said: Not surprising. The X-T2 is one of the best APS-C cameras out there. Fuji is kinda annoying me a lot. It's the camera I want for photography, I love the usability. Actually thanks to their colors, I could also easily live with 8bit (no need to bend the colors if they are that amazing. The GH5 shows that for most people 10bit won't help if you're not really skilled at grading) but with no stabilized primes and the declaration against IBIS, I just don't see them as an upgrade path. I don't want to be always stuck with gimbal & tripod requirements, I want to be able to at least do nice, stabilized static shots. jonpais and tokhee 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonpais Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 43 minutes ago, Phil A said: Fuji is kinda annoying me a lot. It's the camera I want for photography, I love the usability. Actually thanks to their colors, I could also easily live with 8bit (no need to bend the colors if they are that amazing. The GH5 shows that for most people 10bit won't help if you're not really skilled at grading) but with no stabilized primes and the declaration against IBIS, I just don't see them as an upgrade path. I don't want to be always stuck with gimbal & tripod requirements, I want to be able to at least do nice, stabilized static shots. That's probably the main reason my X-T2 sits at home while I take the G85 out to play every day. No stabilizer is a downer. Flip screen and zebras would be nice too. But if I ever do a narrative short before I die, I think the X-T2 will be the one I use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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