The 4K Fuji X-T2 is here

[Kubrickian]

1 hour ago, Phil A said:

Fuji is kinda annoying me a lot. It's the camera I want for photography, I love the usability. Actually thanks to their colors, I could also easily live with 8bit (no need to bend the colors if they are that amazing. The GH5 shows that for most people 10bit won't help if you're not really skilled at grading) but with no stabilized primes and the declaration against IBIS, I just don't see them as an upgrade path. I don't want to be always stuck with gimbal & tripod requirements, I want to be able to at least do nice, stabilized static shots.

My strategy was going to be to grab the 18-55 and 55-200 for IS and general video use and their new f2 weather sealed primes for photography. Even with IBIS I'd still want to use a gimbal for shots with movement. 4k gives you incredible leeway for warp stabilizing in post too. 

[Taranis]

I bought the X-T2 for video, but every now and then I take photos too. I use the 18-55 and I noticed some kind of flaw and I'm not sure if I should send it back for repair. Some of my photos are only sharp at the edges and blurry in the center. I've been told that the OIS is the cause, and I should switch it off when the shutter speed is faster than 1/80. I did not test it yet but I don't really want to focus on turning that thing on and off. Here is an example, check it at full res:

On another topic, I thought the X-Trans sensor was developed to fight moiré, well, this roof is not looking good, again, check it at full res:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nri30p77o3nqnv0/xt2_moire.mov?dl=1

 

 

[Inazuma]

@Taranis That photos looks blurry all round to me :/ Probably a faulty lens then? Sometimes I will get blurry shots with the 18-55 if AF-C is on though.

Yeh I think the X-Trans benefits are a myth or marketing hype. Although I've never seen anything as bad as what you posted. Strange!

[BTM_Pix]

29 minutes ago, Taranis said:

I bought the X-T2 for video, but every now and then I take photos too. I use the 18-55 and I noticed some kind of flaw and I'm not sure if I should send it back for repair. Some of my photos are only sharp at the edges and blurry in the center. I've been told that the OIS is the cause, and I should switch it off when the shutter speed is faster than 1/80. I did not test it yet but I don't really want to focus on turning that thing on and off. Here is an example, check it at full res:

The usual rule of thumb is not to use it unless your shutter speed is below the reciprocal so, yeah, with a crop sensor that would be 1/80 at the long end of the 18-55.

At 640/f8/200 iso that you shot that then you are obviously well above that threshold where OIS would be required and it can certainly have an effect on sharpness.

But its not always the case as it seems to be timing based on where the OIS system is in its measuring cycle when you press the shutter, which is why there seems to be conflicting reports about it. One thing that does seem to have an impact though is if you set the IS mode to 'SHOOTING ONLY' then it will only engage it on a half press or shutter release as opposed to it being continuous. So if you are going to leave it set to ON on the lens then setting the IS mode to 'SHOOTING ONLY' in the 'SHOOTING SETTING' menu should give you a bit more of a chance.

My problem is the other way in round in that I have to remember to switch the OIS to 'ON' on the lenses when I'm doing video as I very rarely use it when shooting stills as its always fast shutter speed stuff.

 

[Taranis]

8 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

The usual rule of thumb is not to use it unless your shutter speed is below the reciprocal so, yeah, with a crop sensor that would be 1/80 at the long end of the 18-55.

At 640/f8/200 iso that you shot that then you are obviously well above that threshold where OIS would be required and it can certainly have an effect on sharpness.

But its not always the case as it seems to be timing based on where the OIS system is in its measuring cycle when you press the shutter, which is why there seems to be conflicting reports about it. One thing that does seem to have an impact though is if you set the IS mode to 'SHOOTING ONLY' then it will only engage it on a half press or shutter release as opposed to it being continuous. So if you are going to leave it set to ON on the lens then setting the IS mode to 'SHOOTING ONLY' in the 'SHOOTING SETTING' menu should give you a bit more of a chance.

My problem is the other way in round in that I have to remember to switch the OIS to 'ON' on the lenses when I'm doing video as I very rarely use it when shooting stills as its always fast shutter speed stuff.

 

Thanks, I'll switch OIS off and try to remember to switch it on then. But do you think this something that should be serviced?

9 hours ago, Inazuma said:

@Taranis That photos looks blurry all round to me :/ Probably a faulty lens then? Sometimes I will get blurry shots with the 18-55 if AF-C is on though.

Yeh I think the X-Trans benefits are a myth or marketing hype. Although I've never seen anything as bad as what you posted. Strange!

Yeah it's not the sharpest in general but this one shows what my problem is. The edges are clearly sharper.
About moiré: If you never seen anything this bad, then you are lucky. This is not my first rooftop that makes a footage unusable. For me it's been black or white so far, either I don't see any moiré, or I see it to this extent.

[BTM_Pix]

2 hours ago, Taranis said:

Thanks, I'll switch OIS off and try to remember to switch it on then. But do you think this something that should be serviced?

 

Its difficult to say one way or another but of its constant then that would suggest a problem but when you do have OIS on for low shutter speed do you see the same problem?

The only way to be sure is to put it on a tripod and use a shutter release cable (or the app or self timer) to take away that variable and shoot a page of text that fills the frame. Repeat that at shutter speeds from below, above and way above the reciprocal (use ND to keep aperture and ISO constant) with OIS on and off at each speed and also using both OIS modes.

That way, you should end up with 9 samples and at 35mm for example I would go with the following 

1-3 - 1/15th with OIS Off, On continuous and On Shooting only

4-6 - As above using 1/125th 

7-9 - As above using 1/800th 

Because of the suspected cause of the issue perhaps being the timing of where the OIS is in terms of its measurement cycle when you press the shutter, I would say that you should probably run multiple passes of 8 and 9 as these are the most likely to fail.

If you test it in this way then it should eliminate the lens itself having an issue as you will be running it in perfect conditions off a tripod and with a remote release. 

It will also aid your case in getting a straight replacement if there is a fault as you can demonstrate it easily.

If there is no fault when running the test then for your own piece of mind, I'd remove it off the tripod and try the same test handheld as if doing that brings the fault back then you should be able to see the point at which it's happening.

My guess is that that point will be test 8... 

[Taranis]

55 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Its difficult to say one way or another but of its constant then that would suggest a problem but when you do have OIS on for low shutter speed do you see the same problem?

The only way to be sure is to put it on a tripod and use a shutter release cable (or the app or self timer) to take away that variable and shoot a page of text that fills the frame. Repeat that at shutter speeds from below, above and way above the reciprocal (use ND to keep aperture and ISO constant) with OIS on and off at each speed and also using both OIS modes.

That way, you should end up with 9 samples and at 35mm for example I would go with the following 

1-3 - 1/15th with OIS Off, On continuous and On Shooting only

4-6 - As above using 1/125th 

7-9 - As above using 1/800th 

Because of the suspected cause of the issue perhaps being the timing of where the OIS is in terms of its measurement cycle when you press the shutter, I would say that you should probably run multiple passes of 8 and 9 as these are the most likely to fail.

If you test it in this way then it should eliminate the lens itself having an issue as you will be running it in perfect conditions off a tripod and with a remote release. 

It will also aid your case in getting a straight replacement if there is a fault as you can demonstrate it easily.

If there is no fault when running the test then for your own piece of mind, I'd remove it off the tripod and try the same test handheld as if doing that brings the fault back then you should be able to see the point at which it's happening.

My guess is that that point will be test 8... 

Thanks a lot, I'll test this out as soon as I can!

[Luke Mason]

17 hours ago, Taranis said:

 

On another topic, I thought the X-Trans sensor was developed to fight moiré, well, this roof is not looking good, again, check it at full res:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nri30p77o3nqnv0/xt2_moire.mov?dl=1

 

 

Judging from the clip It's not the common type of moire which should be mostly chromatic (jumping with colour), was the sharpness setting turned all the way down? It might be also due to the in-camera debayer algorithm for video, considering the camera is debayering from 5K area of the sensor, downsampling to 4K and compressing it in real-time, the debayer quality could be different from what you get from RAW stills in Capture One or Lightroom.

[Taranis]

6 minutes ago, Luke Mason said:

Judging from the clip It's not the common type of moire which should be mostly chromatic (jumping with colour), was the sharpness setting turned all the way down? It might be also due to the in-camera debayer algorithm for video, considering the camera is debayering from 5K area of the sensor, downsampling to 4K and compressing it in real-time, the debayer quality could be different from what you get from RAW stills in Capture One or Lightroom.

The sharpness was at -3. I used to have it at -4, but then I read somewhere that at -4 some extra blur is applied. I did not test this at all, just used -3 from that point on. Does anyone have info about this? I can't test it for a while.

[Luke Mason]

10 minutes ago, Taranis said:

The sharpness was at -3. I used to have it at -4, but then I read somewhere that at -4 some extra blur is applied. I did not test this at all, just used -3 from that point on. Does anyone have info about this? I can't test it for a while.

Try all the way down if -4 is the lowest you can go, I don't own XT-2 but the clip you posted has a bit too much digital sharpening.

[Taranis]

Just now, Luke Mason said:

Try all the way down if -4 is the lowest you can go, I don't own XT-2 but the clip you posted has a bit too much digital sharpening.

Check this roof in 4K, I shot it with -4 sharpness. It doesn't really help.

 

[jonpais]

15 minutes ago, Taranis said:

The sharpness was at -3. I used to have it at -4, but then I read somewhere that at -4 some extra blur is applied. I did not test this at all, just used -3 from that point on. Does anyone have info about this? I can't test it for a while.

Everyone seems to repeat this anonymous source about -4 adding blur, it's ridiculous. Just about every video I've posted here in the forums shot with the X-T2 and a half dozen or so Fuji lenses was shot at -4 and they are incredibly sharp. And I've never run into moire or aliasing issues, at least nothing that popped out at me. Though I don't own it, the 18-55mm is a spectacular lens by the way.

3 minutes ago, Taranis said:

Check this roof in 4K, I shot it with -4 sharpness. It doesn't really help.

 

These images are all soft, they look like they were shot through a filter with vaseline. Something's not kosher here.

[Taranis]

13 minutes ago, jonpais said:

These images are all soft, they look like they were shot through a filter with vaseline. Something's not kosher here.

Are you sure you are not talking about the D5200 footage? The X-T2 footage is fine, but from 0:33 you see the moiré at -4 sharpness.

[jonpais]

1 minute ago, Taranis said:

Are you sure you are not talking about the D5200 footage? The X-T2 footage is fine, but from 0:33 you see the moiré at -4 sharpness.

Moire is going to crop up from time to time with any camera, and I find the X-T2 does a fine job, even with patterned fabric. Your footage looks soft and underexposed to me. It doesn't have any sparkle in the highlights, and the shadows are muddy. 

[Taranis]

1 minute ago, jonpais said:

Moire is going to crop up from time to time with any camera, and I find the X-T2 does a fine job, even with patterned fabric. Your footage looks soft and underexposed to me. It doesn't have any sparkle in the highlights, and the shadows are muddy. 

Yes it was one of my first, it's mostly underexposed, I only posted it to show moiré. You might remember this one, is this sharp to you? This is with the same lens, but with -3 sharpness. If this is sharp to you, then -4 might be too low for this lens after all:

 

[jonpais]

1 minute ago, Taranis said:

Yes it was one of my first, it's mostly underexposed, I only posted it to show moiré. You might remember this one, is this sharp to you? This is with the same lens, but with -3 sharpness. If this is sharp to you, then -4 might be too low for this lens after all:

May I ask if you are shooting with the lens closed down to f/22 or something? Because the X-T2 is capable of so much more detail than what I'm seeing here.

[Taranis]

Just now, jonpais said:

May I ask if you are shooting with the lens closed down to f/22 or something? Because the X-T2 is capable of so much more detail than what I'm seeing here.

No, I rarely use smaller than f/11. It would be nice if another 18-55 user could comment on the sharpness of this lens. Should I be worried?

[jonpais]

These were all shot with the X-T2, screen grabs from 4K footage, they're not examples of perfection or anything, but there should be more brilliant highlights and crispness than what I'm seeing.

[Taranis]

8 minutes ago, jonpais said:

These were all shot with the X-T2, screen grabs from 4K footage, they're not examples of perfection or anything, but there should be more brilliant highlights and crispness than what I'm seeing.

 

Yes I see the difference, but I don't know how sharp those scenes would look with the 18-55.

[jonpais]

4 minutes ago, Taranis said:

Yes I see the difference, but I don't know how sharp those scenes would look with the 18-55.

I believe this was shot with the 18-55mm, but there's no documentation of that.

Edit: There is documentation - over at Vimeo.