The 4K Fuji X-T2 is here

[mercer]

3 hours ago, jonpais said:

@Kisaha I'm just curious: can you produce a shred of evidence that Fuji marketing targets 'die hard Fuji funs [sic], and upper-middle class purists and hipsters'? Concerning your comment about the 'pragmatic dynamics' of the Fuji system, if by that you mean ergonomics, Sony cameras lacking features like touchscreen  and IBIS have been embraced by enthusiasts and professionals alike. In fact, Sony have for a long time now received criticism from even their staunchest supporters, who complain about their convoluted menus, which also falls under the category of ergonomics. Also, whether or not you can 'tweak' the image in post to obtain results similar to the picture profiles in the XT-2 is not the point: the purpose is quick turnaround time, not tinkering around for hours in post. As far as the cost goes - while I'm not a working professional, I really don't consider $1,600 to be outrageous for a refined prosumer flagship camera as good as the XT-2, which some might call a poor man's Leica, though that might be a stretch - I paid more than that for my GH4 almost 3 years ago. Finally, there's the image quality - I haven't been so impressed with the image quality from a mirrorless camera since I don't know when. 

Thank God this camera isn't in stock anywhere... I have a feeling I may have bought one by now. The B&W is simply gorgeous. I haven't used a Fuji camera before, so to test the waters, I just bought the X30. Obviously, I don't expect great video quality but for my fiddling purposes and as a pocket still cam it will be cool to keep in my glove box.

I am really interested to see how a low contrast vintage lens, like an older Tokina or an MC Minolta, fares with the X-T2.

With the XF lenses being so good and the video quality being so much better with this generation of the X-Trans sensor, there doesn't seem to be many tests online with vintage lenses. 

[Kisaha]

No, with "pragmatic dynamics" (pragmatic = relating to matters of fact or practical affairs often to the exclusion of intellectual or artistic matters) I mean, the pragmatic dynamics!

First of all, I used to be a "die hard Fuji fun" buying their film stock fanatically, and buying into their ultra small compacts and bridge cameras, when that was a thing, not so far far away ago. I still kept from that era my latest ones, the http://www.trustedreviews.com/Fujifilm-FinePix-S6500fd-review and http://www.trustedreviews.com/Fujifilm-FinePix-Z5fd-review, that's how much I liked them. 

With "die hard Fuji funs [sic], and upper-middle class purists and hipsters" - I accept the add of "[sic]" by the way, I could have put it there from the beginning(!) - I make an estimation about the bulk of Fuji films sales about the pragmatic (true) situation among my social circle in between a few European and other countries (based of where my extended network of friends live and what cameras do they own in a few continents). I know a few that own a Fuji system  (the less among the people I know, together with the NX system, which I own), there is only one professional who is doing most of his photographic work with a Fuji right now and still his bulk of his equipment is Nikon. The hobbyists (2 persons) are upper middle class with salaries much above the average. Noone of the video people I know even consider a Fuji. The examples above (Panasonic, Sony, Samsung) are of photo/hybrid cameras that can be used, or used to be used, for video people for video productions, and photos, and a A-B set is achievable.

Sony's ergonomics are terrible and menus, probably the worst in the industry (I do not know anything about Olympus cameras though). Just leave it to than, it's for another thread, BUT there are also a very cheap full frame a7, and two of the most exciting full frame cameras right now, a7Rii and a7Sii that push the APS-C sales by a huge margin. This is not a small thing, as the full frame mirrorless market is a very dynamic one, and Sony plays on its own.

Obviously, the jpg machine of Fuji is one of its strongest selling points, I am not going to degrate it, I just expressed the fact that other cameras are producing excellent jpgs as well, with less specific names, but very good as well, even Sony, but mostly Olympus and Samsung, and ofcourse Canon and Nikon cameras.

I am not sure about other countries prices, in my country it starts from 1800 and goes to 2000EUROS body only, plus the battery grip is 300EUROS more , and without it I do not consider it as a viable video option. 

The GH4 3 years ago was the best hybrid camera for video people. Almost a small revolution if I remember correctly.

Bottom line, people with some m4/3 bodies and lenses do not have to go to Fuji, even me with a 2 years old camera (NX1/NX500/NX3000, lenses and accessories) do not have even 1 reason to go to Fuji, Sony people..well, they are Sony people(!), only the ones that care only for APS-C will consider going to Fuji, and Canon people are happy (I wouldn't) with the 80D or M5.

So the target group is a small percentage of people that are not happy with (mainly) the native APS-C lens collection of Sony (and terrible ergonomics), and Nikon people that have no access to native mirrorless system, and mainly, "die hard Fuji funs [sic], and upper-middle class purists and hipsters", probably someone who would consider a Leica, but can't afford it.

That's what I meant.

 

[mechanicalEYE]

Crazy- ness...  I mean some Artist use Windsor and Newton, while some use Kolinsky Sable, they both will work with painting canvas. It's your choice what you use, I find it funny when we fall into the this camera vs that camera nonsense, the purist vs the trendy new guys on the block. Everyone should buy what they choose to.

 

That said, I'm loving the idea of a fuji xt2.

[Inazuma]

On 15/11/2016 at 1:10 AM, kidzrevil said:

whats the highest usable ISO of the fuji in your opinion ? Also do you notice any macroblocking or artifacting ? @Inazuma

At 1080p I would say ISO 3200. 

4K it's ISO 12800 or near that anyway. I do have a higher tolerence to noise than most people though I think.

Here's a clip at 10,000

The good thing about these Fuji files is that unlike some other cameras, it doesn't really kick in noise reduction much at high ISOs and so details remain quite visible. Using noise reduction in post gives great results. 

One somewhat annoying thing regarding ISO I forgot to mention earlier is that you can't change it whilst recording. 

I've yet to see any macroblocking in 1080 or 4k. The bitrate for 1080 seems to be variable, usually between 30 and 100 mbps.  There are no artefacts in 4k either but there is a little bit of moire and aliasing in 1080. You can see that here https://***URL removed***/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr29_0=nikon_d5500&attr29_1=fujifilm_xt2&attr29_2=canon_eos80d&attr29_3=panasonic_dmcg85&attr72_0=1080&attr72_1=1080&attr72_2=1080&attr72_3=1080&normalization=full&widget=378&x=0.03472009788926267&y=-0.5420819490586931

[Inazuma]

Just dropping some more insight after doing more tests..

Don't use the Highlights/Shadows adjustments when shooting faces. It evens out the skin, giving that "waxy" effect. 

Classic Chrome with +4 color is my favourite profile. Provia can be a bit too orange on skin. ProNeg Standard is good too if you want something slightly flatter.

4k jello is real. Close to the Samsung NX1 and Sony A7S. Use with caution. Thankfully the 1080p is sharp; much sharper than my D5500.

AF-C is very usable if you get to know it.

In JPEG stills, the Grain option on Strong actually lifts up the blacks a little bit, giving that VSCO effect, which I quite like.

The 23mm f2 WR is a weird lens. Out of focus areas have a rendering like some vintage lenses I have used. It's nice but not what I expected from a somewhat expensive modern lens. The f1.4 has a more modern rendering but the mechanics act more like an old lens. The below were taken with the f2 WR.

Really want to go out and shoot properly but just don't have the time at the moment. 

[mercer]

27 minutes ago, Inazuma said:

Just dropping some more insight after doing more tests..

Don't use the Highlights/Shadows adjustments when shooting faces. It evens out the skin, giving that "waxy" effect. 

Classic Chrome with +4 color is my favourite profile. Provia can be a bit too orange on skin. ProNeg Standard is good too if you want something slightly flatter.

4k jello is real. Close to the Samsung NX1 and Sony A7S. Use with caution. Thankfully the 1080p is sharp; much sharper than my D5500.

AF-C is very usable if you get to know it.

In JPEG stills, the Grain option on Strong actually lifts up the blacks a little bit, giving that VSCO effect, which I quite like.

The 23mm f2 WR is a weird lens. Out of focus areas have a rendering like some vintage lenses I have used. It's nice but not what I expected from a somewhat expensive modern lens. The f1.4 has a more modern rendering but the mechanics act more like an old lens. The below were taken with the f2 WR.

Really want to go out and shoot properly but just don't have the time at the moment. 

Thanks for the continued review. Are they SOOC jpegs or screengrabs from a video? Is the moiré and aliasing in 1080p as bad as the XT1/XT10?

[Inazuma]

@mercer SOOC jpegs. No the moire/aliasing is nowhere near as bad as the XT1. 

[Django]

FWIW i've always been a bit skeptical of the hype surrounding Fuji X cams.. being a die hard FF DSLR still shooter.. but after playing around with an XT2 today and shooting some 4K footage i'm really impressed! The OOC footage is quite amazing as far as detail, colors etc.. flat out beat D500, 5D4 & A6300 4K imo.. this camera is now on the top of my list for 4K mirrorless. 

Question to users: does XT-2 have Zebras? if not how is the exposure metering? no histogram either right?

@Inazuma that 10,000 ISO night test looks pretty impressive, i wonder how it compares with A7S at similar ISO. Btw, if I get the XT2 it would be with the 23mm F2 WR.. if you have any video footage yet with that combo I'd love to see!

[SuperSet]

Im sure it's already been mentioned but after watching another XT2 video this morning, I couldn't help but notice that the DR seemed to be more limited than my NX1 in Gamma DR mode.   Color looks banging but the highlight roll off is pretty harsh. 

[Taranis]

1 minute ago, SuperSet said:

Im sure it's already been mentioned but after watching another XT2 video this morning, I couldn't help but notice that the DR seemed to be more limited than my NX1 in Gamma DR mode.   Color looks banging but the highlight roll off is pretty harsh. 

May Yuryev compared the X-T2 to the A6300 and found that F-Log has about the same DR as S-Log2. Which is more than what the NX1 provides in Gamma DR. What you see is probably the film emulation modes with unchanged highlight and shadows settings.

[SuperSet]

Has anyone done any tests with highlights turned down and shadows turned up to see if skin tones get funked? 

This was the problem with my Panasonics and Slog. 

[Taranis]

2 minutes ago, SuperSet said:

Has anyone done any tests with highlights turned down and shadows turned up to see if skin tones get funked? 

This was the problem with my Panasonics and Slog. 

Did you check this one yet?

 

[Lothar]

20 hours ago, Django said:

FWIW i've always been a bit skeptical of the hype surrounding Fuji X cams.. being a die hard FF DSLR still shooter.. but after playing around with an XT2 today and shooting some 4K footage i'm really impressed! The OOC footage is quite amazing as far as detail, colors etc.. flat out beat D500, 5D4 & A6300 4K imo.. this camera is now on the top of my list for 4K mirrorless. 

Question to users: does XT-2 have Zebras? if not how is the exposure metering? no histogram either right?

@Inazuma that 10,000 ISO night test looks pretty impressive, i wonder how it compares with A7S at similar ISO. Btw, if I get the XT2 it would be with the 23mm F2 WR.. if you have any video footage yet with that combo I'd love to see!

There is a histogram in photo mode. To get proper exposure you quickly switch to bracketing, adjust your ND or ISO and switch back again. Maybe not great, but I guess, it's just a matter of a firmware fix to offer the histogram in video mode, too. I guess, they could offer zebra aswell, after all they show clipping areas in shot photos.

I was thinking about getting a SmallHD monitor for proper exposure, but I like the idea of a compact and light system.

[Django]

Yeah it looks like the XT2 could do with a nice kaizen update for video..

I think what's impressed me the most aside from the tack sharp 4k image was how good the XT2 nails white balance. The camera store i tested it at has the worse artificial lighting, i don't think a single camera i've tested there has had good results regarding that... except for this XT2.. purest whites SOOC!

speaking of which found this video illustrating just that:

"The room is very low lit and with greenish/yellowish lights. Using the Custom White Balance in the X-T2 nailed the Color Temp. perfectly."

I shoot mainly indoors with often harsh ceiling lights so this camera could be a saviour. very close to pulling trigger now.

 

[bigfried]

This topic seems to have stalled....is anyone actually using this camera? Its been out a while now.

 

[Grégory LEROY]

On 19/09/2016 at 10:12 AM, Inazuma said:

I spent a lot of time with this camera over the weekend, including shooting one small awards event with it. On Saturday I shot some tests and last night I did a load more in a controlled environment, alongside the Nikon D5500

I've uploaded all the raw videos to YouTube. Enjoy https://www.youtube.com/user/sebcastilho/playlists

(Please excuse my voice)

I'll be using this channel now to upload more tests I've done with this camera and others I've had in the past.

Great comparison, I own the d5500 (amazing camera, nice color esay to grade, good slow mo) and I'm thinking to invest in a XT2. There is color shifting when we increase the ISO of the d5500, isn't it? the XT2 colors doesn't seem to shift. have you done some 1080p/60fps comparison? It would be very interesting caus 1080p/60fps is more suitable to shoot some action video (less rolling shutter, movement more pleasing). Are you satisfied by the XT2? is it a big step up the D5500?

[jonpais]

Here's an interesting test of overheating and battery life, with and without grip.

 

[Inazuma]

On 22/11/2016 at 5:42 PM, SuperSet said:

Has anyone done any tests with highlights turned down and shadows turned up to see if skin tones get funked? 

This was the problem with my Panasonics and Slog. 

Yeh turning them to -2 (the max) funks them. -1 is OK.

On 21/11/2016 at 10:30 PM, Django said:

Btw, if I get the XT2 it would be with the 23mm F2 WR.. if you have any video footage yet with that combo I'd love to see!

Nothing of interest yet. Just this short video testing out the bokeh and flaring characteristics. I am returning the WR and keeping the f1.4 btw. The clutch focus is really useful and it has a nicer skin colour rendition imo (less orange). 

On 22/11/2016 at 5:25 PM, SuperSet said:

Im sure it's already been mentioned but after watching another XT2 video this morning, I couldn't help but notice that the DR seemed to be more limited than my NX1 in Gamma DR mode.   Color looks banging but the highlight roll off is pretty harsh. 

You can underexpose and then bring up the shadows.  See my earlier post http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/20213-the-4k-fuji-x-t2-is-here/?do=findComment&comment=161905

 

On 26/11/2016 at 5:24 PM, Grégory LEROY said:

Great comparison, I own the d5500 (amazing camera, nice color esay to grade, good slow mo) and I'm thinking to invest in a XT2. There is color shifting when we increase the ISO of the d5500, isn't it? the XT2 colors doesn't seem to shift. have you done some 1080p/60fps comparison? It would be very interesting caus 1080p/60fps is more suitable to shoot some action video (less rolling shutter, movement more pleasing). Are you satisfied by the XT2? is it a big step up the D5500?

Yeh the XT2 is a big step up from a D5500 in terms of video ergonomics (EVF, focus peaking) and detail (inc. 1080). Colour and tonality is a little more subjective of course. I just did some quick comparisons for you. The image quality in each 1080p mode is the same (24, 25, 29,97, 50, 59.94 fps) and the rolling shutter seems the same too. For me the main thing that lets down the system is the lack of a stabilised f2.8 16-50mm. I have emailed Metabones last week asking if they plan to make an EF adapter, but have not received any reply so far. 

There are also a few minor glitches with the camera here and there. Like sometimes there will appear to be lag on the screen until you half press the shutter. And sometimes when taking a photo, it takes it using the electronic shutter and with a brighter exposure than dialled in. I'm hoping Fuji sees feedback like this and makes a firmware to address these issues. If you are listening Fuji, please get in touch!

 

Edit: Well what dya know... new firmware just came out http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digital_cameras/software/firmware/x/xt2/index.html

Sounds like it address the overexposure issue I just mentioned and also adds a LOCK function!

[BenEricson]

On November 23, 2016 at 5:02 AM, Django said:

Yeah it looks like the XT2 could do with a nice kaizen update for video..

I think what's impressed me the most aside from the tack sharp 4k image was how good the XT2 nails white balance. The camera store i tested it at has the worse artificial lighting, i don't think a single camera i've tested there has had good results regarding that... except for this XT2.. purest whites SOOC!

speaking of which found this video illustrating just that:

"The room is very low lit and with greenish/yellowish lights. Using the Custom White Balance in the X-T2 nailed the Color Temp. perfectly."

I shoot mainly indoors with often harsh ceiling lights so this camera could be a saviour. very close to pulling trigger now.

 

No kidding. That white balance is perfect. What beautiful colors.

[Django]

9 hours ago, Inazuma said:

Nothing of interest yet. Just this short video testing out the bokeh and flaring characteristics. I am returning the WR and keeping the f1.4 btw. The clutch focus is really useful and it has a nicer skin colour rendition imo (less orange). 

you also have the 23mm 1.4? nice. expensive but a lot nicer for sure. can't help but notice in the 23mm f2 test video you linked a lot of shake & jello, which i've also noticed in my test footage at the camera store. lack of IBIS & stabilised lens is really the only thing holding me back at this point (and internal Flog) even though my pro work is always mono/tripod or gimbal assisted.. but these small cams scream handheld and it seems impossible to get decent footage out of them without some kind of stabilisation (hence IBIS upgrade on 6500)