A7SII or A7RII ?

[ricardo_sousa11]

Just found a new A7RII for 2,100€, which is around 500-700€ lower than usual, I think its due to the low £ price. My question is, for video, I remember seeing that the A7RII was pretty good in low light, and with a much higher MPx count, but I dont know which is best, if the R or the S versions...Are there many differences between them?

This is almost an impulse buy, because the price seems quite low..

[Parker]

I don't have any experience with the A7RII but I use the A7SII almost daily at work; as far as I understand, the here are the main differences between the two:

Pros of A7SII: Great full-frame look video, best in low-light, S-Log3 and other color gamut settings not available on a7rii

Cons: Crappy/unusable video autofocus, (and if you're interested in stills as well, no phase-detect autofocus for stills, and of course 12mp is waaay less detailed than the a7rii's 42 mp)

A7RII: Really good in low-light, really good video autofocus (the 'eye' autofocus looks very cool) but supposedly much better in cropped Super 35 mode than FF, so some people actually use a speedbooster on the a7rii in order to still get the FF look but with the benefit of the sharper image and better low-light performance of S35. Kind of crazy.

So really, the bottom line deciding between the two, it comes down to this: Do you want really good full-frame video (a7sII) or really good S35 video (a7rii), and then whether or not you're interested in stills as well (a7rii all the way, in that case.) Good luck!

[Bill Sepaniak]

Depends upon your primary use. If it video with an occasional still or 2, then get the A7SII and don't look back. My current use is about 60/40 video to stills, so I got the A7RII. I shoot video in Super 35 mode with a SpeedBooster Ulta and manual focus full frame Contax/Zeiss lenses that have been "Leitaxed" with Canon mounts. Basically, I get full frame and gain a stop on all my lenses. I don't have much use for the Sony internal XVAC-S codec, so I use a Shogun and record to either ProRes or DNxHD/HR. Has worked quite well for me.

[maxmizer]

I have the A7RII, with S35 film lenses, and I feel good.

I could not take the A7S just because some of my lenses do not cover all the FF sensor, but only S35.

 

[Michael Coffee]

I would have to say the a7s 2, just in case you want to do a film in the dark! Truly ground breaking camera for me.. I am intrigued by the a7r 2's incredibly low rolling shutter in 1080p aspc though.. 7ms!

[Geoff CB]

FF mode on the a7R II is very underrated. Under 3200 ISO I prefer it over S35 mode because it has far better rolling shutter performance.

FF A7s 2 RS = 30 ms

FF A7R 2 RS = 20 ms

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?303559-Measuring-rolling-shutter-put-a-number-on-this-issue!

It's just a bit soft, more like 3K than 4K. Video AF on the A7R 2 is vastly superior to the a7s 2.

I honestly think people should go for the a7r 2 unless you need the S-LOG monitoring features of the A7s 2.

Also for people that want to film in the dark, use a speed booster and use the S35 mode. 

I would grab it at that price.

[Xavier Plagaro Mussard]

On 8 July 2016 at 0:28 PM, ricardo_sousa11 said:

This is almost an impulse buy, because the price seems quite low..

Maybe too low, in Amazon Italy it costs 3300€

[aldolega]

It's a mixed basket either way, but I agree that most people, assuming they don't reaaallly need the ultra-low-light capabilities of the SII, should go for the RII. But, to be fair, I do prioritize rolling-shutter performance more than some, and I am only ever finishing/exporting at 1080p, so for instance the FF mode on the RII being slightly less than 4K is perfectly fine with me, because it has much better RS performance than the s35 mode.

[Chris Jason]

I think it depends on what you use the camera to do. The famous reviewer Matt Granger made some video review on the two cameras. A7SII may be the primary choice for videography because of its 4k video shooting and the A7RII is the best choice for photography. the main difference is that the A7SII is optimized for full frame lenses while the A7RII is optimized for super 35 lenses. 

[Geoff CB]

6 hours ago, Chris Jason said:

I think it depends on what you use the camera to do. The famous reviewer Matt Granger made some video review on the two cameras. A7SII may be the primary choice for videography because of its 4k video shooting and the A7RII is the best choice for photography. the main difference is that the A7SII is optimized for full frame lenses while the A7RII is optimized for super 35 lenses. 

Every discussion between the two cameras have people falsely stating the a7 R 2 is unusable in full frame, when it really is not. It makes people reading threads think that they shooting full frame on the a7r 2 is not even an option.

 

[spencer6891]

The a6300 actually seems to combine some of the best of both cameras into a slightly smaller, and MUCH cheaper package. It has incredible autofocus using native lenses (better than both a7Rii and a7Sii). Low light is comparable to Rii, not as good as Sii. It is 24 megapixels, so it's somewhere between the Rii and Sii. Definitely enough MPs for great stills. It downsamples 6k to 4k so the footage is extremely sharp. Has a lot of the video features of the Sii. The only thing you'd be losing would be IBIS but you can always use stabilized lenses or a gimbal. The major drawbacks of the 6300 are also present in the Rii and Sii, such as the poor battery life, potential for overheating, and lack of touch screen - which makes the a6300 a better value.     

[IronFilm]

Good take on it spencer6891! Would like to get an A6300 one day as a B cam to my Sony PMW-F3 (but in no rush, will wait wait and see what the A5300 offers. If it does s-log 4K ok then I reckon the A5300 will be an even better value option, just like the A5100 vs A600 was)

 

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr2-first-a5xxx-spec-rumors/

[ricardo_sousa11]

I am looking to shoot sull frame only, I have the NX1which, in my opinion, is one amazing S35 camera and I intend on keeping it. The a7 I want to get will be used only for lowlight and full frame of course, the A6300 isnt even a choice, since its not fullframe, and theres terrible rolling shutter.

Anyway, the price is gone now, so I guess ill just wait for a next time, but its nice to see the differences between them arent that huge, but present.

[IronFilm]

Don't get the A7.... only go for one of A7s mk1 / A7r mk2 / A7s mk2

[Curtis Ross]

I've never had a problem with the auto-focus on the A7sII especially using the 55mm. And currently I am working on a project with a buddy filming BTS of his photo shoots. Which DONT have great light. Not a lot of fast motion. But I think the auto-focus complaints are greatly exaggerated.

[Geoff CB]

3 hours ago, Curtis Ross said:

I've never had a problem with the auto-focus on the A7sII especially using the 55mm. And currently I am working on a project with a buddy filming BTS of his photo shoots. Which DONT have great light. Not a lot of fast motion. But I think the auto-focus complaints are greatly exaggerated.

You're right. I did say that it's much better but for video use it is actually as you said is not that much worse. Photo wise it is a significant difference.

[maxmizer]

I think that focus is not a problem, you should use manual lenses, and follow focus maneuvered by operator ...

[The Chris]

On July 11, 2016 at 10:49 PM, spencer6891 said:

The major drawbacks of the 6300 are also present in the Rii and Sii, such as the poor battery life, potential for overheating, and lack of touch screen - which makes the a6300 a better value.     

Wrong, with the runtime hack, the A7rII records until the battery dies or the card fills up. Overheating was solved long ago with a FW update, you can easily hit the 30 minute limit over and over till you run out of batteries or card space. That's something the a6300 will never be able to do. The a6300 will never have IBIS or DR of a larger sensor. Rolling shutter is much worse as well. 

On July 11, 2016 at 5:32 AM, ricardo_sousa11 said:

I am looking to shoot sull frame only, I have the NX1which, in my opinion, is one amazing S35 camera and I intend on keeping it. The a7 I want to get will be used only for lowlight and full frame of course, the A6300 isnt even a choice, since its not fullframe, and theres terrible rolling shutter.

Anyway, the price is gone now, so I guess ill just wait for a next time, but its nice to see the differences between them arent that huge, but present.

If you're looking to go FF only, the A7sII is definitely the better choice. As mentioned the upper limit of FF on the RII is about 3200 before IQ degrades. The A7sII is clean a few stops beyond that.

On July 11, 2016 at 9:42 AM, Curtis Ross said:

I've never had a problem with the auto-focus on the A7sII especially using the 55mm. And currently I am working on a project with a buddy filming BTS of his photo shoots. Which DONT have great light. Not a lot of fast motion. But I think the auto-focus complaints are greatly exaggerated.

While its competent, the A7rII's AF is vastly superior, face detection can easily lock onto a subject and track their movement while the camera moves. The A7sII lacks PADF and can't track in the same manner. If you're primarily using AF lenses, the A7rII is a much better choice. I've shot them side-by-side when I was debating to go A7sII or my current setup with the A7rII & A7s, until you get into the -2 or -3 EV range, the A7rII AF is faster and more accurate. I shoot walk and talk stuff for a corporate client, where someone is moving around a building addressing the camera, I can lock a gimbal mounted A7rII onto a face and it stays locked so well, I rarely have to shoot more than one take because of focus issues. Once you get into really dark situations, the A7s hunts a lot less, but its slow. It is remarkably accurate though.

[Shield3]

On 7/11/2016 at 10:49 PM, spencer6891 said:

The a6300 actually seems to combine some of the best of both cameras into a slightly smaller, and MUCH cheaper package. It has incredible autofocus using native lenses (better than both a7Rii and a7Sii). Low light is comparable to Rii, not as good as Sii. It is 24 megapixels, so it's somewhere between the Rii and Sii. Definitely enough MPs for great stills. It downsamples 6k to 4k so the footage is extremely sharp. Has a lot of the video features of the Sii. The only thing you'd be losing would be IBIS but you can always use stabilized lenses or a gimbal. The major drawbacks of the 6300 are also present in the Rii and Sii, such as the poor battery life, potential for overheating, and lack of touch screen - which makes the a6300 a better value.     

This is one reason I sold my a7r2 (plus the unreliability factor).  The a6300 does 1080p120 and the a7r2 only 720p120; I found the slow-mo much better on the a6300.  This little a6300 has S-LOG3 and is damn good in low light, and has less of an overall crop in 120p mode than even the a7s2!  (I think, or it's close).

To the poster than says the a7r2 can be used in FF mode for video - I agree, but I'd put my cutoff @ ISO1600.  Image goes way downhill after that, but it's pretty damn nice footage at low ISOs.

[spencer6891]

8 hours ago, The Chris said:

Quote

Wrong, with the runtime hack, the A7rII records until the battery dies or the card fills up. Overheating was solved long ago with a FW update, you can easily hit the 30 minute limit over and over till you run out of batteries or card space. That's something the a6300 will never be able to do. 

There are also work arounds for the a6300, but how do you know a similar FW update will never be released for it? 

Quote

The a6300 will never have IBIS or DR of a larger sensor. Rolling shutter is much worse as well.

...yes, and the a6300 costs $2,000 less.  I mentioned the lack of IBIS, which isn't a big deal if you use stabilized lenses or a gimbal, or both. I haven't seen a side-by-side comparison of DR between the a6300 and A7Rii, but I'm willing to bet the difference is negligible. Rolling shutter may be slightly worse on the a6300, but is it enough to warrant spending $2,000 more for either of the other two cameras? Depends on what you shoot and how much you have to spend.