mercer Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 38 minutes ago, joema said: My group has a G30 and XA25. I will be shooting some instructional material with the G30 tomorrow, just because it's easy. We usually use larger-sensor cameras but cameras like these are very nice for certain things. They are straightforward to use, relatively inexpensive, and have superb stabilization. Battery life is good, they don't have a 29 min. recording limit and they don't overheat. An experienced operator can get good looking content. When you consider how much material has been shot with the AG-DVX100 tape-based DV camcorder (including Oscar-nominated documentaries) and how superior modern HD camcorders like the G40 are, you might think why would anyone want anything else. The answer is despite the advantages it doesn't have that lush cinematic look of a higher-end large sensor camera, and doesn't do well in low light. Unlike a decade ago when DV was a common doc format, today even a well-operated entry-level DSLR can produce cinematic-looking material. Viewers come to expect that, whether they can verbalize it or not. Very good points and I totally agree with you. The images out of even entry level DSLRs offer the shallow depth of field that is associated with modern cinema. Of course, you can get a little bit of shallow depth with a small sensor camera, if you compose your shots accordingly... always keeping something in the foreground. But also lighting can be used to add that depth if needed. But, by no means am I advocating for people to sell their dslrs and cinema cams for camcorders, I am just excited... surprised to see how far they have come and with their current feature sets could be an amazing tool for the run and gun filmmaker that just wants to tell a story and is not a cinematographer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat33 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 2 hours ago, joema said: My group has a G30 and XA25. I will be shooting some instructional material with the G30 tomorrow, just because it's easy. We usually use larger-sensor cameras but cameras like these are very nice for certain things. They are straightforward to use, relatively inexpensive, and have superb stabilization. Battery life is good, they don't have a 29 min. recording limit and they don't overheat. An experienced operator can get good looking content. When you consider how much material has been shot with the AG-DVX100 tape-based DV camcorder (including Oscar-nominated documentaries) and how superior modern HD camcorders like the G40 are, you might think why would anyone want anything else. The answer is despite the advantages it doesn't have that lush cinematic look of a higher-end large sensor camera, and doesn't do well in low light. Unlike a decade ago when DV was a common doc format, today even a well-operated entry-level DSLR can produce cinematic-looking material. Viewers come to expect that, whether they can verbalize it or not. Yeah agree that there is a big big place for larger sensors and DOF control/lowlight ability. I have shot a few travel vids and with a larger sensor camera, I had a nice cinematic image but also had to carry a lot of gear, deal with ND filters, and missed some quick shots by not nailing focus or exposure before the shot was gone. I think something like the XC10 which had a great image and easy colours, would be a good option -just one camera in the bag and a videomic pro and you're all good. mercer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Coffee Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 xc10 seems nice - like a mini c100 - a power zoom would be the icing on the cake! mercer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 12 hours ago, Michael Coffee said: xc10 seems nice - like a mini c100 - a power zoom would be the icing on the cake! Took her out this morning and the manual zoom is so nice, you don't really miss the power zoom. With a quick flick of the wrist, you can go from 24-70mm. The focus ring is better than I thought it would be after hearing all the horror stories about it. It's decent on the long end to get some shallow depth. Apparently, it also function in auto mode, where you slightly turn the focus ring and then it automatically finishes the rack for you. Haven't tested it yet but it looked great on the videos I've seen. Michael Coffee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat33 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 1 hour ago, mercer said: Took her out this morning and the manual zoom is so nice, you don't really miss the power zoom. With a quick flick of the wrist, you can go from 24-70mm. The focus ring is better than I thought it would be after hearing all the horror stories about it. It's decent on the long end to get some shallow depth. Apparently, it also function in auto mode, where you slightly turn the focus ring and then it automatically finishes the rack for you. Haven't tested it yet but it looked great on the videos I've seen. Sounds great, how are you finding the build quality and general ease of use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 1 hour ago, mat33 said: Sounds great, how are you finding the build quality and general ease of use? Build quality is superb. As Mattias has said a couple times, everything's in the menus but everything is right at your fingertips, so it's pretty simple. The twisting hand grip makes it really comfortable on the wrist, but my index finger naturally wants to sit right at the record button so I accidentally hit it a couple times. Am also not used to exposing c-log. I thought you were supposed to ETTR with c-log but with zebras set to 100, when I ETTRd I found it easily overexposed and I wasn't able to pull it back down in post. A few of the shots, I ettc and they looked great with a decent amount of latitude to open or close the image in post without any noise. The 1080p c-log is gorgeous, traditional canon colors with way more DR. The lens' sweet spot is around 5.6, like most lenses, and the aperture closes down to 3.7 by 35mm, at 50mm it's at f4. The built in ND is good but on a real sunny day you need a little more. I will probably look into getting one of them xume adapters so I can just put a fader nd on it quickly when necessary. The ibis is awesome. I was able to get in so many places and positions and it held tripod steady. With slight movements you can get some pans, tilts and if real careful you can walk a little but any type of normal stride and it becomes Jell-O shots... And not the good kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 Plus I must admit, I did miss the option for some shallow depth at 50mm, but I was able to go to the long end and get some. The bokeh is a little haphazard, yet creamy... Kinda strange but not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mat33 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 23 minutes ago, mercer said: Build quality is superb. As Mattias has said a couple times, everything's in the menus but everything is right at your fingertips, so it's pretty simple. The twisting hand grip makes it really comfortable on the wrist, but my index finger naturally wants to sit right at the record button so I accidentally hit it a couple times. Am also not used to exposing c-log. I thought you were supposed to ETTR with c-log but with zebras set to 100, when I ETTRd I found it easily overexposed and I wasn't able to pull it back down in post. A few of the shots, I ettc and they looked great with a decent amount of latitude to open or close the image in post without any noise. The 1080p c-log is gorgeous, traditional canon colors with way more DR. The lens' sweet spot is around 5.6, like most lenses, and the aperture closes down to 3.7 by 35mm, at 50mm it's at f4. The built in ND is good but on a real sunny day you need a little more. I will probably look into getting one of them xume adapters so I can just put a fader nd on it quickly when necessary. The ibis is awesome. I was able to get in so many places and positions and it held tripod steady. With slight movements you can get some pans, tilts and if real careful you can walk a little but any type of normal stride and it becomes Jell-O shots... And not the good kind. Sounds great. The Xume adapters are definitely a good idea. I think I saw somewhere that the zoom was par focal so you can do s16 style crash zooms -does it seem that way to you? I wonder what the IBIS is like compared to Olympus's system... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 18 minutes ago, mat33 said: Sounds great. The Xume adapters are definitely a good idea. I think I saw somewhere that the zoom was par focal so you can do s16 style crash zooms -does it seem that way to you? I wonder what the IBIS is like compared to Olympus's system... Yeah, it's definitely parfocal, so a crash zoom should work great. If you keep it at 5.6 and then attach a follow focus lever to the zoom ring, you can probably get some smooth zoom pulls. As far as IBIS, I have really shaky hands... I smoke too much and drink too much coffee, so my hands are all over the place and it was completely steady. I never used an Olympus, so I couldn't say for sure. One of the reasons why I wanted the XC10, is because I briefly had the Panny FZ300 and prior to the XC10, it was the funnest camera I ever owned, but unfortunately the IQ wasn't that great. Well that had the 5-Axis ibis in 1080p and the xc10 is just as good. I assume the 5-Axis in the fz300 1080p is the same as the 5-Axis in the GX85 4K, and from reading that thread, it seems they're comparable. I am going back out on Monday, so I will probably post some screen grabs or a small video by mid week. mat33 and Michael Coffee 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Kieley Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 On 7/23/2016 at 6:09 PM, mercer said: Of course, you can get a little bit of shallow depth with a small sensor camera, if you compose your shots accordingly... always keeping something in the foreground. I used to get a shallow DOF with the DVX all the time, never needed a 35mm adapter: https://vimeo.com/63615369 Sometimes I miss using camcorders and "just getting it done", but I think what I really miss is being 19 and making random movies on the weekends with friends, wanting to be a filmmaker, but not worrying about being professional. I would invite friends over with no idea, then we'd just whip something up, sometimes even staying up all night making multiple films. But most of those are terrible. I made maybe two that I think are still kind of funny and entertaining now. I put out far less work now, but I think it's much better than what I did a decade ago. I hope the new generations are just getting it done and not worrying too much about the best lenses and how many stops of DR they have. Michael Coffee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 21 minutes ago, Matt Kieley said: I used to get a shallow DOF with the DVX all the time, never needed a 35mm adapter: https://vimeo.com/63615369 Sometimes I miss using camcorders and "just getting it done", but I think what I really miss is being 19 and making random movies on the weekends with friends, wanting to be a filmmaker, but not worrying about being professional. I would invite friends over with no idea, then we'd just whip something up, sometimes even staying up all night making multiple films. But most of those are terrible. I made maybe two that I think are still kind of funny and entertaining now. I put out far less work now, but I think it's much better than what I did a decade ago. I hope the new generations are just getting it done and not worrying too much about the best lenses and how many stops of DR they have. Yup, that's why I bought the XC10. I almost went with G40, just to go real old school, but the bigger sensor, 4K and c-log is worth the extra $700. We did the same kind of stuff. My buddy is just finishing editing an epic he shot on an old Sony miniDV and an HV20. He started shooting it over a decade ago and then life happened, and production slowed up. But the point is all of the footage I've seen from it looks fantastic. Point being in the end, a filmmaker can tell a story with any camera and it is very cool to see so many options around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Kieley Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 34 minutes ago, mercer said: Point being in the end, a filmmaker can tell a story with any camera and it is very cool to see so many options around. That's why I just bought a T2i and Nikkors. I'd thought about it since Andrew wrote abut Kendy Ty a couple of years ago, and upon rewatching his stuff, decided to get one. Also, I just like to experiment and try different cameras and lenses. I've never owned a Canon DSLR or Nikon lenses, so it's new and kind of exciting. Liam and mercer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 That's awesome. My newest quest for my perfect camera was born from watching some Kendy Ty videos and seeing what he does with so little. My first camera was a t2i, so had already been there and wanted to try something new. My original plan was to get a D5500 and use basically only my 28mm f2 Nikkor... One of my favorite lenses of all time. My real motivation was a simple 1080p set up that shot clean 24p and 60p. When I was about ready to buy it, I started seeing videos from the micro and thought... Well for only a little more I can get a micro and shoot raw. As I have said before... It's a great camera but not for me. So here I am, I may still pick up that D5500 because I need a camera to fulfil my lens obsession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 28 minutes ago, mercer said: My original plan was to get a D5500 and use basically only my 28mm f2 Nikkor... One of my favorite lenses of all time. I thought you sold that lens. I still have to get one to replace the 28 1.4 but I don't want to pay more than 100€ (although in sweden you can probably buy it for 10€ at some secret special place that is neither secret nor special) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 2 hours ago, Matt Kieley said: I used to get a shallow DOF with the DVX all the time, never needed a 35mm adapter: https://vimeo.com/63615369 Sometimes I miss using camcorders and "just getting it done", but I think what I really miss is being 19 and making random movies on the weekends with friends, wanting to be a filmmaker, but not worrying about being professional. I would invite friends over with no idea, then we'd just whip something up, sometimes even staying up all night making multiple films. But most of those are terrible. I made maybe two that I think are still kind of funny and entertaining now. I put out far less work now, but I think it's much better than what I did a decade ago. I hope the new generations are just getting it done and not worrying too much about the best lenses and how many stops of DR they have. Btw, that video link doesn't work. 17 minutes ago, Nikkor said: I thought you sold that lens. I still have to get one to replace the 28 1.4 but I don't want to pay more than 100€ (although in sweden you can probably buy it for 10€ at some secret special place that is neither secret nor special) Yeah, I did. But I am gonna buy another one. 100 euro will be tight for that lens, but you can probably find one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Kieley Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 28 minutes ago, mercer said: Btw, that video link doesn't work. Forgot it was set to private. It's public now. 1 hour ago, mercer said: That's awesome. My newest quest for my perfect camera was born from watching some Kendy Ty videos and seeing what he does with so little. He really is a huge inspiration. Watching his films always make me make one. But the camera and lenses that I ordered are exciting too. I'm 9 pages into a feature film script now, Liam 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 10 minutes ago, Matt Kieley said: Forgot it was set to private. It's public now. He really is a huge inspiration. Watching his films always make me make one. But the camera and lenses that I ordered are exciting too. I'm 9 pages into a feature film script now, Good on you. I am a writer first but I hate sitting down to write. I watched the extended tease to your Carte Blanche film a few weeks ago. It looks good, reminds me of something from the mumblecore movement... Not to pigeonhole it, it just felt reminiscent of that. Btw, If you really like Kendy Ty's video look, he sells the picture profile he developed for his t2i on his website. Oh yeah, what camera did you shoot Carte Blanche with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 10:43 AM, mercer said: I hear you, all this talk of camcorders makes me want the G40... of course i just watched a few videos from the AF100... so I kinda want one of them too... especially since they can be had for less than $800 used. I think even at $800 an AF100 is overpriced. I've seen it go for less. Hold out for a $500 special to make it worthwhile. Otherwise might as well get FS100 / F3 / FS700 for not really that much more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer Posted July 25, 2016 Author Share Posted July 25, 2016 15 minutes ago, IronFilm said: I think even at $800 an AF100 is overpriced. I've seen it go for less. Hold out for a $500 special to make it worthwhile. Otherwise might as well get FS100 / F3 / FS700 for not really that much more That's a whole lotta camera for $800 though. I know there are some mixed reactions for the AF100 on this site, but I have seen some beautiful videos made with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Kieley Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 2 hours ago, mercer said: Good on you. I am a writer first but I hate sitting down to write. I watched the extended tease to your Carte Blanche film a few weeks ago. It looks good, reminds me of something from the mumblecore movement... Not to pigeonhole it, it just felt reminiscent of that. Btw, If you really like Kendy Ty's video look, he sells the picture profile he developed for his t2i on his website. Oh yeah, what camera did you shoot Carte Blanche with? Thanks. I was definitely taking in mumblecore films at the time I made it (2009) but I was more influenced by Wes Anderson, Noah Baumbach and Jim Jarmusch. It was shot on a Panasonic DVX100 (original model, not a or b). I may have to buy that pic profile. I'll probably give Magic Lantern Cinestyle a shot first, and if I'm not satisfied I'll buy Kendy's. Michael Coffee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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