Canon 1Dc $4,999

[Luke Mason]

The reality is, there will be no C-log for 1DX II, period.

Only C-log has true ZERO in-camera sharpening.

Rolling shutter in 4K is 25ms for 1DC, 15ms for 1DX II.

[DBounce]

7 minutes ago, Liam said:

so, better video dynamic range, no in camera sharpening, for lower cost.

How much better is the rolling shutter?

Twice as good!

3 minutes ago, Luke Mason said:

The reality is, there will be no C-log for 1DX II, period.

Only C-log has true ZERO in-camera sharpening.

Rolling shutter in 4K is 25ms for 1DC, 15ms for 1DX II.

You're guessing... fact is you do not know.  But time will tell.  

[mkabi]

DBounce, I think you're kind of over-protective of your purchase decisions.

Nonetheless, enjoy.

BUT.... What are you going to think and/or say when the GH5 shows up with 6K @ 60p?

 

[Dave Maze]

Everything I'm mentioning is what I thought I was told at NAB four years ago. Sorry for my mistake. Show me some of your work. Would love to see how it compares. C Log is more than worth it for me to go with 1DC as I work with other Canon Cine cameras on a daily basis. Fact is, 1DC makes the most beautiful cinema 4K I've ever seen off a Canon Cinema Camera and I've used them all with the exception of C500. 

The Canon Cine lens compatibility I was referring to was addressed in the most recent firmware update: https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/explore/product-showcases/cameras-and-lenses/cinema-eos-firmware/1dc

1DC also has some other advantages over the original 1DX. Obviously doesn't relate to 1DX II fully but is a response to what DBounce has said:

"Compared with 1D X hardware, 1D C has a better heatsink, slightly overclocked DIGIC 5+ chip, a headphone jack instead of flash sync port and a locating pin hole at the bottom. 1D C is approximately 150g heavier than 1D X." http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?304245-Some-interesting-facts-about-Canon-1D-C-you-probably-don-t-know-about

although this article debates the heatsink difference: http://wolfcrow.com/blog/canon-1dc-vs-1dx/

Truth is....this camera is a freaking beast. Im not switching. I love it. You should rent them and see for yourself. I only use manual lenses so the autofocus doesnt matter to me and Canon Log is way too important for me too. Slow motion isnt an issue. I can get slow motion from other tools. This is a sexy image machine.

[DBounce]

On 7/28/2016 at 3:00 PM, DaveAltizer said:

I won't argue that the 1DC is not an awesome tool. But for me at least,  the 1DX Mkii represents a better balance. Choose the tool that is best for helping you capture your story.

9 hours ago, mkabi said:

DBounce, I think you're kind of over-protective of your purchase decisions.

Nonetheless, enjoy.

BUT.... What are you going to think and/or say when the GH5 shows up with 6K @ 60p?

 

What will you say if it doesn't have those specs? In all honesty,  I doubt we will see 6k @60p from the GH5, though honestly I would love to see it. And hope they give us 10 bit, raw option, and lovely motion cadence. But would this not render the Varicam irrelevant?

[IronFilm]

4 hours ago, DBounce said:

But would this not render the Varicam irrelevant?

Nope! The A7s mk2 doesn't make the FS5 irrelevant.

[Jimmy]

That's because it is still 8 bit though, I would say. First hybrid/dslr that gets internal 10 bit and does it right (or even raw) will shake things up again, imho.

[AaronChicago]

4 hours ago, Jimmy said:

That's because it is still 8 bit though, I would say. First hybrid/dslr that gets internal 10 bit and does it right (or even raw) will shake things up again, imho.

And we know it's possible if BM is doing it in a pocket camera.

[DBounce]

3 hours ago, AaronChicago said:

And we know it's possible if BM is doing it in a pocket camera.

The pocket is not 4k, and the battery last 30 minutes. It's not a workhorse by any means. And while I'm sure there are examples of serious commercial work being shot on one,  the same can be said of the iphone also. 

[Dave Maze]

47 minutes ago, DBounce said:

The pocket is not 4k, and the battery last 30 minutes. It's not a workhorse by any means. And while I'm sure there are examples of serious commercial work being shot on one,  the same can be said of the iphone also. 

I shot with pocket as my workhorse for over a year and just sold it a few months ago. Quite a pain to work with but I figured it out in the end. Using UV/ IR filters all the time and the switronix battery mount on top of the camera giving me 5hrs of battery life. Totally workable but nobody cares. Never had one single person hire me because I had a "Blackmagic" except Seth Worley a few times. 

[AaronChicago]

21 hours ago, DBounce said:

The pocket is not 4k, and the battery last 30 minutes. It's not a workhorse by any means. And while I'm sure there are examples of serious commercial work being shot on one,  the same can be said of the iphone also. 

Meh. I hardly ever use 4K on the Ursa Mini. The ProRes 422 HD files are beyond good enough for the kind of stuff I shoot. The battery life does suck on the Pocket, but it's pretty small. They've already improved it with the Micro Cinema camera. They really need to make a chunkier pocket camera with a swivel screen and Canon batteries.

[Dave Maze]

It's August 1st. 1DC is still $5,000. I heard it was only gonna last till July 31. Good news!

[DBounce]

9 minutes ago, DaveAltizer said:

It's August 1st. 1DC is still $5,000. I heard it was only gonna last till July 31. Good news!

I'm betting it's discontinued, so they are clearing them out.  The interesting part is what canon announce after they get rid of their inventory. I still think it's gonna be a firmware update to the 1DX Mkii with C-Log.

[Luke Mason]

1 hour ago, DBounce said:

I'm betting it's discontinued, so they are clearing them out.  The interesting part is what canon announce after they get rid of their inventory. I still think it's gonna be a firmware update to the 1DX Mkii with C-Log.

From Canon:

[Damphousse]

On 7/31/2016 at 0:07 PM, DBounce said:

The pocket is not 4k, and the battery last 30 minutes. It's not a workhorse by any means. And while I'm sure there are examples of serious commercial work being shot on one,  the same can be said of the iphone also. 

Wow.  You win the prize for biggest iphone distortion.  The BMPCC was used on the new X-files series and not as a gimmick.  I get it.  You don't like it.  But let's not lie about it.  The color out of the camera is amazing and it is a sub $1,000 raw shooter.  I of course picked it up for less than $500 new.

 

[DBounce]

5 minutes ago, Damphousse said:

Wow.  You win the prize for biggest iphone distortion.  The BMPCC was used on the new X-files series and not as a gimmick.  I get it.  You don't like it.  But let's not lie about it.  The color out of the camera is amazing and it is a sub $1,000 raw shooter.  I of course picked it up for less than $500 new.

FYI, I use to own the pocket camera, two in fact. So I am quite familiar with it. Also I paid $995 each and though it was a good image for the price. However,  I soon learned that it's  not a great choice for serious work as it is hampered by it's many niggles. Any camera can be used to tell a story. That it has been used on the set for major productions means nothing frankly. I am certain the GoPro has seen much more use in real productions than the BMPCC, so what's your point? Does any of this make the BMPCC 4k@60p and 10 bit/raw? If not, how is it an example of the first small camera with all these attributes as was suggested earlier?

[AaronChicago]

4K at 60p at 10 bit is going to be the challenge for small cameras. The BM Micro Studio shoots ProRes at 4K so we know that's at least possible. If BM could take the components of the Micro Cine, Micro Studio, and BMCC to make a DSLR sized camera it would be a huge hit. Size it in between the pocket and the BMCC to be more hand-held friendly.

[Dave Maze]

1 hour ago, Luke Mason said:

From Canon:

Canon is a very predictable company. They aren't like Sony in that they do things that are unexpected. We won't see a 5d4 or 1dxii ever get canon log. This response from them proves that. Thanks for sharing. Canons cinema line will always be the only place for Canon log.

Canon at cinegear stated that they are a lens company first and a camera company second. The amount of glass they sell is astronomically higher than camera bodies. Always keep that in mind when you think of canon. They are very focused and predictable with their cameras. Unless there is a "C" on the body, don't expect canon log. 

[Tiago Rosa-Rosso]

I suspect there will be a 5d mark IV with 28mp and 5dC with 18mp and this one will have C-log. I don't believe 1dx mark 2 will get C-log in the future, it's a machine built for other purposes. Canon segments the market very well.  

[IronFilm]

8 hours ago, DBounce said:

I soon learned that it's  not a great choice for serious work as it is hampered by it's many niggles.

Every camera (especially with the well under $5K range) has its own little set of niggles. Even the famous and expensive 1D C has ***HEAPS*** of niggles. Even an Arri Alexa has some niggles, that is why they brought out the Amira and then the Alexa Mini. 

But with an external battery pack (or a pocket full of batteries... I've got 13! So I can go with either option, just internal or external as well) you can go for ages and ages. I did this a couple of weekends ago inside at a Motorsport Expo, using the BMPCC as a quick and dirty run and gun camera on a monopod shooting to Rec709 ProRes LT (as there would be a lot of footage, none of which I'd be editing).

This shows you can even happily use a BMPCC for one of its most unconventional uses: run and gun!

If I was doing this outdoors I'd have added a monitor (I've got a Feelworld FW759 now, but hopefully I'll get a nice little 5" or smaller one to add to it instead). 

The total size and weight would still be smaller than what a naked 1D C would be! And more functional. (1D C monitoring features are shit)

8 hours ago, DBounce said:

That it has been used on the set for major productions means nothing frankly. I am certain the GoPro has seen much more use in real productions than the BMPCC, so what's your point?

GoPros have been around for many years longer than a BMPCC, for a long time they were the ONLY option. That is why they were used. 

GoPros would still be used now for their low cost , their widespread availability, waterproofness, extreme small size, and ease of use. 

But for when image quality really matters, productions will always be now reaching for a BMPCC/BMMCC over a GoPro.

8 hours ago, DBounce said:

Does any of this make the BMPCC 4k@60p and 10 bit/raw?

In many many cases 4K is not **NEEDED***. 4K is not needed for nearly all of my work. As AaronChicago just mentioned only a few comments before yours, he is really only using his URSA Mini 4.6K as FHD ProRes HQ and not 4K as that is all that is required for his needs. 

So yes, would be lovely if the BMPCC had 4K! But it absolutely does not have to be a deal breaker requirement for many of us. 

As for 60p....  that is solved, we have the BMMCC if a person must have that.

8 hours ago, AaronChicago said:

The BM Micro Studio shoots ProRes at 4K so we know that's at least possible.

Needs an external recorder however... if BMD had included that inside the design then it would be a lot bigger and no longer Micro, plus the price would leap up. 

This is however something I'd like to see! Could likely be sub $3K? With a URSA Micro (even a bit smaller than URSA Mini! But please please add internal NDs) design with a 1" (or 4/3") sensor doing 4K that gets recorded internal. 

NAB 2017? To ship in 2018! Haha

8 hours ago, DaveAltizer said:

The amount of glass they sell is astronomically higher than camera bodies.

I dunno, they would sell a **SHITLOAD** of Canon Rebel series DSLRs (and 60D/70D DSLRs too, only one step up) to people who never buy anything more than the kit lens it came with. Maaaybe a 50mm f1.8 and/or a walk around superzoom as well.

The people who buy L series glass from Canon are a tiny proportion of that. 

But yes, if you excluded Rebel DSLR buyers from these figures, then I could agree with you.

4 hours ago, Tiago Rosa-Rosso said:

I suspect there will be a 5d mark IV with 28mp and 5dC with 18mp and this one will have C-log. I don't believe 1dx mark 2 will get C-log in the future, it's a machine built for other purposes. Canon segments the market very well.  

5Dmk4 and 5D C having two very different sensors? Doesn't seem like a Canon thing to do! This seems unlikely to me.