Canon 1Dc $4,999

[Shield3]

6 hours ago, Damphousse said:

That's legit.  I just price match rather than return.  I've done that with B&H.  I don't know how Adorama is about price matching.

It's BS for a retailer to expect you to take a $3000/month depreciation.

Yeah.  With no C badge you can kiss log goodbye.  Lord knows what other crippling will go on.

Well let's see - had he bought a NEW one I certainly could see that - but he bought a used one for $5k a month ago.

It's not a $3k hit by any stretch, and B&H (and Adorama) both show their used 1dc's as "unreturnable".  Unless there are $2k used 1dc's out there, I highly doubt he took a 3k hit.  But, clearly none of you work on the business sales side of things - what did Adorama do wrong here?  They sold him a product; he used it for professionally and mentioned several times how much he loved it.  We all make gambles buying used gear as far as price.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.  But, we all have our own set of principles.  Carry on...

6 hours ago, Andrew Oliver said:

I decided to signup and become a member just so i can personally combat this silliness.  You're actually suggesting that he feel bad because he bought a camera, saw it go down by 3k, and decided to take advantage of a return policy that a huge company has in place in order to make the most money for themsevles?  Do you think Adorama has that return policy because they're a bunch of sweethearts, or because it ultimately improves their bottom line and gets more people to impulse buy?  

Now that i've got that out of the way, i just bought the 1dc.  Anyone have any thoughts on C-Log vs no C-Log shooting?  To my eye, i think i agree with Abraham Joffe, that not using C-Log and just dialing down the contrast achieves the best look.   Admittedly, i'm a novice shooter.  

So it's ok because they're a huge company?  You sound like a typical Democrat.

To reiterate - they didn't see any usage because he only took video, which doesn't register on the shutter count.

B.  No $5k hit; he bought used.

C.  Adorama sold him a good working camera that he took out of the country twice and got paid to use for free.

If this is fine by you to "stick it to the man" then that's fine.  I just don't do things like this, big company or small.

[Dave Maze]

1 hour ago, Shield3 said:

Well let's see - had he bought a NEW one I certainly could see that - but he bought a used one for $5k a month ago.

It's not a $3k hit by any stretch, and B&H (and Adorama) both show their used 1dc's as "unreturnable".  Unless there are $2k used 1dc's out there, I highly doubt he took a 3k hit.  But, clearly none of you work on the business sales side of things - what did Adorama do wrong here?  They sold him a product; he used it for professionally and mentioned several times how much he loved it.  We all make gambles buying used gear as far as price.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.  But, we all have our own set of principles.  Carry on...

So it's ok because they're a huge company?  You sound like a typical Democrat.

To reiterate - they didn't see any usage because he only took video, which doesn't register on the shutter count.

B.  No $5k hit; he bought used.

C.  Adorama sold him a good working camera that he took out of the country twice and got paid to use for free.

If this is fine by you to "stick it to the man" then that's fine.  I just don't do things like this, big company or small.

Actually...If I bought it new then it would be non refundable. Used doesn't state that its non refundable...

For the record....I love to stick it to the man. But I haven't done that here. I followed every rule and did literally nothing wrong here. According to their own return policy, by me simply being dissatisfied (price drop) is all that is needed for a valid refund. That is all. I didn't loose $3000. More like $1,000 in the used market. Thats still pretty sucky! Hence my dissatisfaction. 

[AaronChicago]

I think if you buy it again at the 5K price from Adorama then it's totally fine. I kinda see both sides of this. If everyone just bought a camera and returned it after a shoot, there'd be businesses closing, companies not innovating due to lack of resources, and no rental houses.

[iamoui]

@Shield3 I see nothing wrong with what @DaveAltizer did. Adorama has a return policy. He used that return policy. He wasn't being deceptive or trying to "stick it to the man". Just because you feel guilty returning a camera after 75 clicks doesn't mean everyone else would. And what's with the "typical democrat" comment? There's nothing I can't stand more than ignorant political polarization. There's this thing called "nuance". I don't think @Andrew Oliver was saying it's ok because they are a huge company, rather a huge company has a return policy that obviously works for them otherwise they either wouldn't be a huge company anymore (if people were taking advantage of their return policy and they were losing money) or they wouldn't have that return policy. This is the free market at work. I thought you "typical Republicans" love free market capitalism.

[Snowfun]

Big companies could promote one-off "as used by Ebrahim Saadawi" versions...

[DBounce]

12 hours ago, Damphousse said:

You said "iPhone".  Now you are moving the goal posts.  The BMPCC, an iphone, and a Gopro are all very different tools used for very different purposes.  A BMPCC and a GoPro have very defined use cases on a professional movie set.  I have never seen a use case for an iphone on a movie set where it excels or even equals a BMPCC or a GoPro.  I've seen it used as a gimmick but in every scenario I've seen there was a better and at times cheaper option.  So, no, a BMPCC is not an iphone.

http://www.businessinsider.com/tangerine-shot-on-iphone-2015-7

If I buy something and don't like it, I'll return it.  And I only do business with retailers that give me this option. If the price goes down, I get a price match. Why does no one here get mad with Sony,  who release new models even couple months? At least you get a few years out of a Canon before it's replaced. To be fair, the 1DC model is almost 5 years old now.

[Cinegain]

1 hour ago, Snowfun said:

Big companies could promote one-off "as used by Ebrahim Saadawi" versions...

Maybe his 1DC didn't get stolen. Maybe he only just now returned it!

[Dave Maze]

15 minutes ago, Cinegain said:

Maybe his 1DC didn't get stolen. Maybe he only just now returned it!

I'm loving where this thread is going. Lol

[Shield3]

9 hours ago, DaveAltizer said:

Actually...If I bought it new then it would be non refundable. Used doesn't state that its non refundable...

For the record....I love to stick it to the man. But I haven't done that here. I followed every rule and did literally nothing wrong here. According to their own return policy, by me simply being dissatisfied (price drop) is all that is needed for a valid refund. That is all. I didn't loose $3000. More like $1,000 in the used market. Thats still pretty sucky! Hence my dissatisfaction. 

Actually this shows SPECIFICALLY your "hit" - $550 bucks.  Used was $5k a month ago, now $4450.  Once you factor in the $50 or so shipping, it was a $500 "hit" - could you rent one for a month and take out of the country for $500?  No.  Did you make more than $500 using it for the month?

I have said my piece.

4 hours ago, iamoui said:

@Shield3 I see nothing wrong with what @DaveAltizer did. Adorama has a return policy. He used that return policy. He wasn't being deceptive or trying to "stick it to the man". Just because you feel guilty returning a camera after 75 clicks doesn't mean everyone else would. And what's with the "typical democrat" comment? There's nothing I can't stand more than ignorant political polarization. There's this thing called "nuance". I don't think @Andrew Oliver was saying it's ok because they are a huge company, rather a huge company has a return policy that obviously works for them otherwise they either wouldn't be a huge company anymore (if people were taking advantage of their return policy and they were losing money) or they wouldn't have that return policy. This is the free market at work. I thought you "typical Republicans" love free market capitalism.

Part of his argument on why it was ok was the fact that Adorama is a "huge company".  That should have 0 bearing and you know it.

[Dave Maze]

44 minutes ago, Shield3 said:

Actually this shows SPECIFICALLY your "hit" - $550 bucks.  Used was $5k a month ago, now $4450.  Once you factor in the $50 or so shipping, it was a $500 "hit" - could you rent one for a month and take out of the country for $500?  No.  Did you make more than $500 using it for the month?

I have said my piece.

Part of his argument on why it was ok was the fact that Adorama is a "huge company".  That should have 0 bearing and you know it.

The one I had was a totally different rating. I'm seeing the same quality of 1dc going for $3999 now online on B&H and eBay. 

 

And yes. You are right. I came out on top with what a rental vs return would have been. But how is that wrong again? I am baffled that this argument is still going on? I followed all the rules of purchase and return. How does a rental fee have anything to do with it? I wasn't satisfied with my purchase. If the price drop didn't happen within my 30 day window I wouldn't have returned it. 

[mercer]

Yeah, you had every right to return it. And I would argue you had a responsibility to. Most likely Adorama was full aware the price drop was going to occur and they hope people won't go to the trouble to return it or, if it were new, not ask for a price match.

The point is that I am pretty sure you probably would have ponied up the extra grand if they were selling new at $5000.

The used 1dC would have to be less than 3 grand for me to buy a used one as opposed to a new one for 5000.

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, Cinegain said:

Maybe his 1DC didn't get stolen. Maybe he only just now returned it!

Best new theory I've heard! Ever.

 

lol

[Andrew Oliver]

On August 12, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Shield3 said:

Actually this shows SPECIFICALLY your "hit" - $550 bucks.  Used was $5k a month ago, now $4450.  Once you factor in the $50 or so shipping, it was a $500 "hit" - could you rent one for a month and take out of the country for $500?  No.  Did you make more than $500 using it for the month?

I have said my piece.

Part of his argument on why it was ok was the fact that Adorama is a "huge company".  That should have 0 bearing and you know it.

It being a big company has all sorts of bearing on it because you're not screwing anyone over, and therefore shouldn't feel bad about it.  Do you not understand that this situation is highly unusual, and unworthy of your puritanical rants on what you think is right? A camera had a GIANT price reduction during his 30 day grace period - that a big company benefits from.  Adorama, or any other big company, MAKES MONEY on their 30 return policy via customer satisfaction and impulse buying.  The situations like Dave's are rare, but this is a situation where the customer gets the benefit of that policy.  

This has no bearing on the separate issue of people buying cameras only to use them and return them, that's a totally different situation where there is an INTENT to take advantage, there was no intent here.  It's a 30 day CUSTOMER SATISFACTION POLICY.  Dave wasn't satisfied with it's value within 30 days, it doesn't matter why.  

[Dave Maze]

I just re purchased a 1DC and pumped to have it back. Was able to buy the Zacuto Gratical as well with some of the money I saved by re buying it. 

ALSO....if you live in the New York area....take this offer up!!! $2199!!! Insane. http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/pho/5735235400.html

[tokhee]

@DaveAltizer i received some more pics of the listing. the camera is a bit banged up. still a great deal. i'm too chicken s%#t to make the purchase...

[Luke Mason]

14 hours ago, DaveAltizer said:

I just re purchased a 1DC and pumped to have it back. Was able to buy the Zacuto Gratical as well with some of the money I saved by re buying it. 

ALSO....if you live in the New York area....take this offer up!!! $2199!!! Insane. http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/pho/5735235400.html

Be aware that the HDMI out on 1DC has a ~200ms lag

[tweak]

Are people in this thread for real or just trolling? And some wonder how the world has failed...

[Dave Maze]

6 hours ago, tweak said:

Are people in this thread for real or just trolling? And some wonder how the world has failed...

huh?

6 hours ago, Luke Mason said:

Be aware that the HDMI out on 1DC has a ~200ms lag

Ya I noticed with my monitors and old Zacuto EVF. The Gratical will be future proof though and will be used on other productions with other cameras. 

[Andrew Oliver]

3 hours ago, DaveAltizer said:

huh?

Ya I noticed with my monitors and old Zacuto EVF. The Gratical will be future proof though and will be used on other productions with other cameras. 

Dave, i'm going down basically the same road you are.. just got the 1dc, about to get the gratical -- and probably the Zeiss Otus lenses which i tried and are awesome.  Wanted to ask you a few dumb questions if you don't mind.  Some context, i like Abraham Joffe's look, and will probably follow in his footsteps in terms of the look and style he's gotten from the 1dc.  Specifically, he doesn't use Clog, dials down the contrast, etc.  So my questions are:

- Have you tried shooting without Clog, and do you have opinions? Joffe feels Clog is too flat, even after color correction.

- What shutter speed do you shoot at for 4k, and do you have opinions on shooting at different rates? 1/50 vs 1/100, etc.  -- I don't care about grabbing still frames, just want the best video look. 

- Any other settings advice, and/or exporting/downscaling/conversion programs advice?

Thanks! i've enjoyed your takes on the 1dc.  

 

[tweak]

4 hours ago, DaveAltizer said:

huh?

Just trying to understand how people can think that this guy is somehow taking advantage of Adorama by using one of this companies main selling points to his advantage (a company that is only big because they offer such services, a company that pushes the smaller retailers out of business because they offer such services)...