Best focusing method when shooting with stabilizer

[jonpais]

I've been going crazy moving my camera around since getting the Zhiyun Crane, but I've got a question about the best focusing method to use. I'm shooting with a GH4 and Panasonic zoom lenses. I've been using AFS with continuous focus disabled in the menu, which seems to work fine with tracking and follow shots where I try to maintain the same distance from the subject, and it even works when panning and slowly tracking-in. But when I try circling around the subject, the camera completely loses focus (not sure if it was ever even in focus in the first place though~~). This evening, I tried setting the camera on manual focus and using the AF 'button' on the touch screen to set focus and move around, but that didn't turn out so well either. But I should say I was shooting in rather dim lighting at the time. I've been shooting at focal lengths from 12-35mm with the aperture anywhere from f/3.5-7.1 or so for most of my clips. Any suggestions?

[bunk]

Did you try the app. If memory serves me right you can focus with screen of your ipad/phone as well.

[mercer]

Wide angle lens set to infinity. As wide as you can get. 

[Inazuma]

Have another man with a wireless field monitor use an electronic wireless follow focus module :D

[M Carter]

The classic, pre-wireless-AF-way - wide lens, f5.6 to f11. Focus in the range your subject will be in (I dunno about the "infinity focus" comment, unless your subject is on the horizon. Why would you set initial focus miles away from your subject?) The wider the lens, the deeper your DOF, and the more you stop down (within bounds of reason - avoid diffraction) the more DOF.  Before you even get the camera on the rig, find out just how much focus range you have (use the EVF, use peaking, move in and out, rehearse the move without the rig) and stay within that range. Getting someone to grab your belt and walk with you (like guiding a blind man) lets your brain stop worrying about tripping, and that person can help keep you in the DOF zone as well, esp. if they're part of the shot rehearsal.

I've had great results with the NX1 and kit lens on AF for doc-style work - but you have to keep the subject in the focus box. And if the subject has dark clothes on, the AF may hunt.

Review every shot before you move on. Something like a 20" HDTV or HDMI computer monitor is a big help here (for playback focus checking). If the monitor doesn't play nice with the camera, try a powered (active) splitter, that will sometimes get the signal through. Keep in mind that if you use a production monitor with peaking - peaking works on playback as well as recording, so you can also use that to check shots (if the peaking is useable).

[mercer]

52 minutes ago, M Carter said:

The classic, pre-wireless-AF-way - wide lens, f5.6 to f11. Focus in the range your subject will be in (I dunno about the "infinity focus" comment, unless your subject is on the horizon. Why would you set initial focus miles away from your subject?) The wider the lens, the deeper your DOF, and the more you stop down (within bounds of reason - avoid diffraction) the more DOF.  Before you even get the camera on the rig, find out just how much focus range you have (use the EVF, use peaking, move in and out, rehearse the move without the rig) and stay within that range. Getting someone to grab your belt and walk with you (like guiding a blind man) lets your brain stop worrying about tripping, and that person can help keep you in the DOF zone as well, esp. if they're part of the shot rehearsal.

I've had great results with the NX1 and kit lens on AF for doc-style work - but you have to keep the subject in the focus box. And if the subject has dark clothes on, the AF may hunt.

Review every shot before you move on. Something like a 20" HDTV or HDMI computer monitor is a big help here (for playback focus checking). If the monitor doesn't play nice with the camera, try a powered (active) splitter, that will sometimes get the signal through. Keep in mind that if you use a production monitor with peaking - peaking works on playback as well as recording, so you can also use that to check shots (if the peaking is useable).

The RMC Tokina 17mm hits infinity at about 15 feet. If he wants to nail his focus with a steadicam and a manual lens, I would use 20mm lens or less. He should hit infinity at 20' or less with a lot of ultra wide lenses. Or at least the ones, I've owned. 

Sorry, read it quickly, I thought he was using a manual lens for some reason... Hot summer brain I guess. 

[jax_rox]

If you can't go wireless, you sometimes have to just compromise to get something close to what you want. Whether that means using a wider lens, stopping down for deeper DOF (and inherently needing more light/higher ISO - which could lead to noise problems) or not getting as close with the stabiliser/not doing the circle moves you want.

I don't know what stabiliser you're using, but there are accessories these days that can put a focus thumb wheel at your fingertips - it's not the most elegant solution, but it can be better than trying to do the focal length vs f-stop vs ISO dance.

[andy lee]

All my wide moving shots on the Pandora movie I just shot I did with the Panasonic 14mm at f2.5 or the Olympus 17mm at 2.8 I don't do moving shots on longer lenses as the focus can be a nightmare

All those steady cam shots on Birdman were done on 14mm and 18mm lenses

[JazzBox]

I shot the MCU with the Olympus 12-40 at 25mm f/2.8 on a gimbal: more then that, if you precede or follow the actor you loose the sense of movement and the parallax effect, while it is great if you follow him/her on the side. 
 

 

After that video I made other shot with the gimbal and the sweet spot was between 12mm and 18mm.
I made this part at 14mm f/2.8 and I think it is more dynamic then at 25mm. 

Of course no focus pulling during the shot, I just had to remain at the same distance from the subjects.

Hope that helps  

 

[jonpais]

10 hours ago, mercer said:

Wide angle lens set to infinity. As wide as you can get. 

The Panny zooms don't have DOF scales and focus ring has no stop

12 hours ago, bunk said:

Did you try the app. If memory serves me right you can focus with screen of your ipad/phone as well.

Would focusing on my iPod be easier than using the touch screen on the GH4?

10 hours ago, Inazuma said:

Have another man with a wireless field monitor use an electronic wireless follow focus module :D

I thought about a follow focus, but I'm a one-man band

8 hours ago, M Carter said:

Review every shot before you move on. Something like a 20" HDTV or HDMI computer monitor is a big help here (for playback focus checking). If the monitor doesn't play nice with the camera, try a powered (active) splitter, that will sometimes get the signal through. Keep in mind that if you use a production monitor with peaking - peaking works on playback as well as recording, so you can also use that to check shots (if the peaking is useable).

I've been thinking about getting a 7" Aputure monitor for that very purpose.

5 hours ago, andy lee said:

All my wide moving shots on the Pandora movie I just shot I did with the Panasonic 14mm at f2.5 or the Olympus 17mm at 2.8 I don't do moving shots on longer lenses as the focus can be a nightmare

All those steady cam shots on Birdman were done on 14mm and 18mm lenses

Then I'll try to keep my zoom at 12mm... I also really like tracking shots with shallow DOF. I try not to stop any of my lenses down beyond f/8 because of diffraction issues. Loved Birdman!

[spencer6891]

Sounds like something like this would be useful:

http://www.24shots.com/silencer-pro-trigger-controlled-camera-follow-focus/

[JazzBox]

3 hours ago, jonpais said:

Then I'll try to keep my zoom at 12mm... I also really like tracking shots with shallow DOF. I try not to stop any of my lenses down beyond f/8 because of diffraction issues. Loved Birdman!

As long as you track by the side you have no problems, it's easy to remain at the same distance from the subject. 

[jonpais]

8 hours ago, JazzBox said:

I shot the MCU with the Olympus 12-40 at 25mm f/2.8 on a gimbal: more then that, if you precede or follow the actor you loose the sense of movement and the parallax effect, while it is great if you follow him/her on the side. 

 

Great work, i really enjoyed both videos! It may be true that you lose the parallax effect when following or preceding the subject, but you can add interest if the quality of light changes as they walk. 

[JazzBox]

1 hour ago, jonpais said:

Great work, i really enjoyed both videos! It may be true that you lose the parallax effect when following or preceding the subject, but you can add interest if the quality of light changes as they walk. 

Thank you!
You're right about lights!! 

[mercer]

Depending on the framing of your shot, you could always tie a thin rope between you and you actor/subject... Attach it to your belt and his... Hit your focus before you start moving and as long as you keep the rope taut as you track him, you will stay in focus.

[bunk]

7 hours ago, jonpais said:

Would focusing on my iPod be easier than using the touch screen on the GH4?

Well you wrote " This evening, I tried setting the camera on manual focus and using the AF 'button' on the touch screen to set focus and move around, but that didn't turn out so well either."

I was under the impression the reason that didn't turn out too well, was that you challenged the gimbals extra by unbalancing the camera when touching the screen. The Ipod can be attached to the handle with a clamp so no extra load on the gimbals.

But apparently it had an other reason.

[jonpais]

3 hours ago, bunk said:

Well you wrote " This evening, I tried setting the camera on manual focus and using the AF 'button' on the touch screen to set focus and move around, but that didn't turn out so well either."

I was under the impression the reason that didn't turn out too well, was that you challenged the gimbals extra by unbalancing the camera when touching the screen. The Ipod can be attached to the handle with a clamp so no extra load on the gimbals.

But apparently it had an other reason.

Gotcha now. I'm using the Zhiyun Crane and it doesn't really shake at all if you touch the camera lightly.

Having another operator sitting in front of a monitor pulling focus would be ideal, but I'm just one person doing this for pure fun.

So, are most of you using manual focus or AF when tracking with a stabilizer? And if you are shooting AF with a Panasonic camera, could you share your autofocus settings?

[jonpais]

On July 28, 2016 at 2:45 AM, M Carter said:

The classic, pre-wireless-AF-way - wide lens, f5.6 to f11. Focus in the range your subject will be in (I dunno about the "infinity focus" comment, unless your subject is on the horizon. Why would you set initial focus miles away from your subject?) The wider the lens, the deeper your DOF, and the more you stop down (within bounds of reason - avoid diffraction) the more DOF.  Before you even get the camera on the rig, find out just how much focus range you have (use the EVF, use peaking, move in and out, rehearse the move without the rig) and stay within that range. Getting someone to grab your belt and walk with you (like guiding a blind man) lets your brain stop worrying about tripping, and that person can help keep you in the DOF zone as well, esp. if they're part of the shot rehearsal.

I've had great results with the NX1 and kit lens on AF for doc-style work - but you have to keep the subject in the focus box. And if the subject has dark clothes on, the AF may hunt.

Review every shot before you move on. Something like a 20" HDTV or HDMI computer monitor is a big help here (for playback focus checking). If the monitor doesn't play nice with the camera, try a powered (active) splitter, that will sometimes get the signal through. Keep in mind that if you use a production monitor with peaking - peaking works on playback as well as recording, so you can also use that to check shots (if the peaking is useable).

It would be so awesome if peaking worked in playback in-camera! Too much to expect, though...

[Axel]

On 28. Juli 2016 at 7:40 PM, mercer said:

Wide angle lens set to infinity. As wide as you can get. 

Better the hyperfocal distance. 

With most wide lenses and small apertures, the focus setting wouldn't be infinity but, amazingly, between 3 and 6 feet. According to an online DoF calculator, with a 12mm @f7 on a GH2 it would be 4,4 feet.

[jonpais]

I think I figured it out: just enable face detection and continuous focus! It's been so long since I used AF, I'd forgotten how to change the settings in the camera. I did some tests this morning, but haven't had a chance to look at them on the computer. 

[edit] I just looked at the files on the computer and was reminded of why I hate the GH4's autofocus. All my shots kept drifting in and out of focus. I'm going to give it one more try, this time, with face detection and AFS. I hope the GH5 has better auto focus.