Kessler Crane Second Shooter

[andrgl]

Anyone versed in motion control products?

I've been using an Edelkrone system (Target. SliderPlus and Action) but want something infinitely more programmable. I've considered building my own rig, but Kessler has a 5-axis system for roughly USD$4000. It doesn't have roll, which totally kills me, but it beats having to code my own interface.

I'd be really happy to hear from anyone that's used the Second Shooter system. Did you rent it or buy it? What type of shooting did you use it for? How well did it work?

Anyway, I've decided to partially pull the trigger and am buying a brain and two lens motors. Will update this thread with my verdict.

[HelsinkiZim]

I cannot tell you what you need, but I invested in the iFootage motion system. I first watched this video

It is like a gimbal, it appears in your portfolio when you are getting paid. Then, it is a godsend for making your life easier to get really interesting shots. But for the rest of the year it will sit in your cupboard.

so are you charging or having fun?

i cannot answer that.

Edit: you didn't ask for my opinion on systems in general so apologies for, er.. generalising.

But yes, you should invest more in automation, but no, not with anyone else but iFootage for now.

[Hans Punk]

I recently ordered a full spec Dynamic Perception 3 axis rig...did a lot of research into Kessler/ Edelkrone and found the Dynamic Perception setup to be way more friendly for customising (open source) and a much better fit for my needs. I've built my own focus motor, which i can easily patch into the system (yet will have to loose 1 axis when using it - as current NMX controller only supports 3 channel). Apparently in the near future, they will allow multiple NMX boxes to be daisy chained, allowing theoretically unlimited motor channels to be controlled via app software, or when tethered to tablet/pc running the more featured Graffik software.

[HelsinkiZim]

I think if we... think outside of the box, the OP is really asking about automation and how much do we rely on it in real world production. I would almost say in cerainty that most DOP's and Directors would not give up so much control to a bot. But I think automation is a serious part of what one-man-band producers do.

Investing in an automated system really makes sense, unless you are intent on the me-and-my-girfriend/cat look... which I love. But, movement is always the difference between homemade and paid. Nowadays, it's a combo of slider, jib, drone, and a bit of shoulder rig, that maketh a promo. Soon even that will not be enough.

And yes, the documentary style establishment promos are over. Don't let anyone tell you that story is the key to success anymore.

Or that you need and FS7.

[OliKMIA]

For what it's worth, I wrote a review for timelapse network about the Dynamic Perception system. Unfortunately I have very little experience about the Second shooter but it generally has a good reputation.

http://timelapsenetwork.com/products/sliders-moco-dollies-and-cranes/dynamic-perception-stage-one-stage-r-review-oliver-kmia/

[andrgl]

2 hours ago, Hans Punk said:

I recently ordered a full spec Dynamic Perception 3 axis rig...did a lot of research into Kessler/ Edelkrone and found the Dynamic Perception setup to be way more friendly for customising (open source) and a much better fit for my needs. I've built my own focus motor, which i can easily patch into the system (yet will have to loose 1 axis when using it - as current NMX controller only supports 3 channel). Apparently in the near future, they will allow multiple NMX boxes to be daisy chained, allowing theoretically unlimited motor channels to be controlled via app software, or when tethered to tablet/pc running the more featured Graffik software.

Edit: Thanks for pointing this system out. Totally forgot they existed. Dynamic Perception is awesome for photographers, but the stepper motor ratings are too low, 1A isn't enough to drive beefy NEMA 17 and 23 steppers, which makes it not so awesome for video.

 

I am crazy jealous of the Graphik software. Way more keyframes than what's available for kOS.

[HelsinkiZim]

2 hours ago, HelsinkiZim said:

I think if we... think outside of the box, the OP is really asking about automation and how much do we rely on it in real world production. I would almost say in cerainty that most DOP's and Directors would not give up so much control to a bot. But I think automation is a serious part of what one-man-band producers do.

Investing in an automated system really makes sense, unless you are intent on the me-and-my-girfriend/cat look... which I love. But, movement is always the difference between homemade and paid. Nowadays, it's a combo of slider, jib, drone, and a bit of shoulder rig, that maketh a promo. Soon even that will not be enough.

And yes, the documentary style establishment promos are over. Don't let anyone tell you that story is the key to success anymore.

Or that you need an FS7.

Grrr, how do you delete a post!!??!!

I guess, think before posting, no.

We less fortunate must accept our fates.

[andrgl]

4 minutes ago, HelsinkiZim said:

Grrr, how do you delete a post!!??!!

I guess, think before posting, no.

We less fortunate must accept our fates.

Haha, don't worry! Your original post was great. During my research I did come across the iFootage solutions. This thread might help others looking for an economical and simple moco system.

That said, the reason I didn't go with the iFootage, aside from the lack of keyframes and PC control, is resale value. What I've come to realize is that, paying for a more expensive product from a brand name company, allows you to resell it later for much less money lost and hassle.

[Hans Punk]

1 hour ago, andrgl said:

Edit: Thanks for pointing this system out. Totally forgot they existed. Dynamic Perception is awesome for photographers, but the stepper motor ratings are too low, 1A isn't enough to drive beefy NEMA 17 and 23 steppers, which makes it not so awesome for video.

 

I am crazy jealous of the Graphik software. Way more keyframes than what's available for kOS.

I'm fortunate that it only needs to shift around an Alexa mini or DSLR...so those steppers are fine. The maximum recommended payload is 5-6kg, which is more than I'll ever need. Most people seem to use dynamic perception gear for time lapse use, but the possibilities for video use are very competent, providing the camera payload is relatively modest. Yep, the Graffik software and the ability to patch into dragonframe for stop motion work is a massive plus.

[Mondo]

We carry the Second Shooter where I work and I've used it a handful of times. It's very easy to set your points and adjust your speeds based on what you need. It's a very strong system and the menus are very straight forward. It's solid.

Granted I haven't used it extensively, but this is from testing and slight use in the field.

[Flynn]

There is, or at least was, an alternative to the second shooter that I remember seeing a vid of a couple years ago and am drawing a blank on who made it. It wasn't Zacuto but someone well known like that made it. It looked super easy to set up and was on a curved track. Anyone know what I'm thinking of? Remember thinking it would be great for interviews. 

[andrgl]

1 hour ago, Flynn said:

There is, or at least was, an alternative to the second shooter that I remember seeing a vid of a couple years ago and am drawing a blank on who made it. It wasn't Zacuto but someone well known like that made it. It looked super easy to set up and was on a curved track. Anyone know what I'm thinking of? Remember thinking it would be great for interviews. 

Redrock Micro One Man Crew.

[Flynn]

That's it! Thanks. It doesn't interest you?

[andrgl]

On 8/4/2016 at 0:33 PM, Flynn said:

That's it! Thanks. It doesn't interest you?

I need something more than a curved slider, looking to entirely replace myself or another as the camera operator.

 

FYI: to anyone that's interested, Kessler has a 15% off everything sale this weekend. I've placed a full order. (And also lamenting to them in an email over my prior, 3-days too early for the sale, purchase. Pwease give me credit. lol)

[HelsinkiZim]

On 05/08/2016 at 2:56 AM, andrgl said:

I need something more than a curved slider, looking to entirely replace myself or another as the camera operator.

 

FYI: to anyone that's interested, Kessler has a 15% off everything sale this weekend. I've placed a full order. (And also lamenting to them in an email over my prior, 3-days too early for the sale, purchase. Pwease give me credit. lol)

Go iFootage S1A3. Best slider on the market and a powerful motion head. Bollocks remote menu system, but as an adult that should not be a problem, the rest is basically the best you can get right now.

Like Beyonce told you, with iFootage, you are replaceable. It's another you in a minute.

You must not know 'bout me...

 

[andrgl]

Okay I'm totally in love with my second shooter system.

I went almost all out: slider, zoom + focus, pan and tilt.

Posting this to see how happy I'm with it in 6 months. Negatives so far: cost and the lens motor rail mounts were total shit so I machined my own.