5DIV full spec and full image leak

[forofilms]

27 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Where have I heard all this before....?

Oh that's right, after every single camera Canon has released. Same complaints. And all the prior times cameras that where so so hated like the 5Dmkiii, C300, C100, 1DC and XC10 all ended up being loved in the end.

Why is that, what was it that made all the hate go away....?

Oh that's right, people actually used it instead of looking at numbers and charts.

No I'm not a fanboy, don't own a canon and won't buy the 5Div. But I know the story.

Same thing with the XC10. It was almost only the fact that it got so much hate that interested me enough to buy it. I was the first to give it a positive review, since I had actually used it. And man did I had to sit through pissed of comments.

The reason I think history will repeat itself is that its Canon. People always glance at a spec paper and think they automatically have the whole picture. They think a huge company and market leader like Canon would just put something together and not think it through very very very very very veeeery thoroughly. 

My money is on they knowing exactly what they are doing. And I don't think we are going to see thread after thread about bad color, fpn, over heating, etc.

Personally I might get an mkiii again when they drop.

I prepared a bit by buying an even older member of their top prosumer line. So yes, by tomorrow I own a Canon and therefore by forum law I will be a Fanboy-sheep-idiot-uneducated-noob. Basically anything accept someone who likes the camera, because the specs makes that impossible...

Here we go. Canon rep to the rescue...

"Not a fanboy, don't own a Canon" and then, "Bought the xc10, was the first to give it a positive review". Somehow those two don't jive for me. 

[swithdrawn]

20 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

The reason I think history will repeat itself is that its Canon. People always glance at a spec paper and think they automatically have the whole picture. 

You're right, people aren't seeing the whole picture. They're seeing an extremely cropped picture. It's fine if you like the XC10 and if you like the 5DIV and they fulfill your needs. But seriously it's 2016 and yes I need the ability to change lenses and yes I need at least APS-C and yes it's reasonable to expect this in a $3500 dollar camera body. The fact that Canon are performing acrobatics to protect their cinema line while the competition leaves them in the dust is infuriating to everyone with huge Canon glass investment. Canon bodies have their strengths with color and reliability, but it doesn't matter how great this camera ends up being in the real world, the crop is simply a deal breaker. 

[IronFilm]

30 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

I prepared a bit by buying an even older member of their top prosumer line. So yes, by tomorrow I own a Canon and therefore by forum law I will be a Fanboy-sheep-idiot-uneducated-noob. Basically anything accept someone who likes the camera, because the specs makes that impossible...

 

Don't worry, even I (self proclaimed "King of Canon Haters") own a Canon DSLR as well

A Canon 50D! :-o Which I picked up for NZ$50 (which is about US$35 ish).

[forofilms]

5 minutes ago, swithdrawn said:

You're right, people aren't seeing the whole picture. They're seeing an extremely cropped picture. It's fine if you like the XC10 and if you like the 5DIV and they fulfill your needs. But seriously it's 2016 and yes I need the ability to change lenses and yes I need at least APS-C and yes it's reasonable to expect this in a $3500 dollar camera body. The fact that Canon are performing acrobatics to protect their cinema line while the competition leaves them in the dust is infuriating to everyone with huge Canon glass investment. Canon bodies have their strengths with color and reliability, but it doesn't matter how great this camera ends up being in the real world, the crop is simply a deal breaker. 

The most insulting thing they're doing is purposefully handicapping their cameras to protect overpriced, video-only segments. And most of it is just a few lines of code. That's what's most upsetting. 

[Oliver Daniel]

22 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Where have I heard all this before....?

Oh that's right, after every single camera Canon has released. Same complaints. And all the prior times cameras that where so so hated like the 5Dmkiii, C300, C100, 1DC and XC10 all ended up being loved in the end.

Why is that, what was it that made all the hate go away....?

Oh that's right, people actually used it instead of looking at numbers and charts.

No I'm not a fanboy, don't own a canon and won't buy the 5Div. But I know the story.

Same thing with the XC10. It was almost only the fact that it got so much hate that interested me enough to buy it. I was the first to give it a positive review, since I had actually used it. And man did I had to sit through pissed of comments.

The reason I think history will repeat itself is that its Canon. People always glance at a spec paper and think they automatically have the whole picture. They think a huge company and market leader like Canon would just put something together and not think it through very very very very very veeeery thoroughly. 

My money is on they knowing exactly what they are doing. And I don't think we are going to see thread after thread about bad color, fpn, over heating, etc.

Personally I might get an mkiii again when they drop.

I prepared a bit by buying an even older member of their top prosumer line. So yes, by tomorrow I own a Canon and therefore by forum law I will be a Fanboy-sheep-idiot-uneducated-noob. Basically anything accept someone who likes the camera, because the specs makes that impossible...

 

I'm with you on this, in the way Canon make very solid and reliable cameras with a very pleasing image. After using them, they are very hard NOT to like. They work very well at what they do with zero issues. 

I'm also with you on the "specs don't matter" bit too. I bought the RX10 II based on the specs and after 2 shoots I hated it. I found it awful for video work. The images seemed vastly inferior to my "elderly" GH3. 

Specs DO matter though when you're running a business, and you need certain features and performance. I had a Canon 60d with terrible 60p in 720, the clients wanted it so I replaced it with a 1080 60p GH3. Other clients wanted slower, so I rented the FS700 a million times. getting a Canon in for the job never entered my mind. 

Recently, I've rented the C300 for event interviews - just based on the skin tones and reliability. Worked great. 

I think Canon get in the neck with the internet because everyone loves their product (for what it is) and the image. So for those of us who require more flashy features for clients (like good slo-mo), we can't have a Canon, but we desire it. I do. 

Something like a 5DC with more video features would be absolutely fantastic. They could take over the small video body market area if they wanted to. But they don't because, they have all these financial plans and market segmentation and such. 

The upcoming C100 will probably only have 4k as an update, and the XC15 a better lens and DPAF. 

So all of us guys who require slo-mo, 10bit, IBIS, LOG and all that jazz have to stick with other brands. But we want Canon really. Because, yeah, the image.

I think that explains it really. 

[Nikkor]

WIth 1.4x crop this camera would have been acceptable even without ibis nor 10bit. I mean, 1.74crop, lol really.

[forofilms]

5 minutes ago, Nikkor said:

WIth 1.4x crop this camera would have been acceptable even without ibis nor 10bit. I mean, 1.74crop, lol really.

I can't decide which is worse, the 1.74 crop or the fact they left log, peaking and an updated codec out. 

[mercer]

Idk, part of the whole DSLR movement was using cameras that weren't perfect but the benefits outweighed the minuses. With Canon colors and reliability you are getting that. This idea that Canon or Sony or whoever should manufacture a camera that meets every specific need of a relatively small niche market is ludicrous. It doesn't matter anyway, in a month when user videos start compiling and AR decides to buy one anyway and gives it a glowing review, the crickets from the regular Canon detractors will start sounding and everyone will be reminded why Canon is on top. Their color science is the best and their products work. 

The End. 

[forofilms]

3 minutes ago, mercer said:

Idk, part of the whole DSLR movement was using cameras that weren't perfect but the benefits outweighed the minuses. With Canon colors and reliability you are getting that. This idea that Canon or Sony or whoever should manufacture a camera that meets every specific need of a relatively small niche market is ludicrous. It doesn't matter anyway, in a month when user videos start compiling and AR decides to buy one anyway and gives it a glowing review, the crickets from the regular Canon detractors will start sounding and everyone will be reminded why Canon is on top. Their color science is the best and their products work. 

The End. 

I doubt that AR will give it a positive review when it's handicapped to start and has a $3,500 price tag. Ergonomics and color science simply cannot overcome the crop and antiquated codec. 

[mercer]

2 minutes ago, forofilms said:

I doubt that AR will give it a positive review when it's handicapped to start and has a $3,500 price tag. Ergonomics and color science simply cannot overcome the crop and antiquated codec. 

Nobody in their right mind expected FF 4K, so the crop was always going to be a factor. I assumed it was going to be Super 35mm and it pretty much is. And personally, who gives a shit about the codec? The 1Dc and 1dxii samples I have seen look gorgeous. Never once when looking at any sample from either of those cameras have I ever thought... That would look so much nicer if it wasn't recorded in mjpeg. 

[swithdrawn]

Just now, mercer said:

Nobody in their right mind expected FF 4K, so the crop was always going to be a factor.

Samsung managed to figure out 4k FF years ago. I already see amateurs and casual pros with a lack of technical knowledge expecting to utilize the 4k frame grab feature or to shoot some video for clients. They are going to be pretty annoyed when they discover their new investment turns their 24mm into a 41mm lens. Keep in mind Canon does not even mention this anywhere...

Just now, mercer said:

I assumed it was going to be Super 35mm and it pretty much is. 

No it isn't. 

I agree the codec is not a big deal. I would have even took pixel binned FF 4k but man, the crop...

[forofilms]

9 minutes ago, mercer said:

Nobody in their right mind expected FF 4K, so the crop was always going to be a factor. I assumed it was going to be Super 35mm and it pretty much is. And personally, who gives a shit about the codec? The 1Dc and 1dxii samples I have seen look gorgeous. Never once when looking at any sample from either of those cameras have I ever thought... That would look so much nicer if it wasn't recorded in mjpeg. 

The output of the codec is not the problem - it's the data size and file management issues that are. It's an outdated leviathan. 

[mercer]

10 minutes ago, swithdrawn said:

Samsung managed to figure out 4k FF years ago. I already see amateurs and casual pros with a lack of technical knowledge expecting to utilize the 4k frame grab feature or to shoot some video for clients. They are going to be pretty annoyed when they discover their new investment turns their 24mm into a 41mm lens. Keep in mind Canon does not even mention this anywhere...

No it isn't. 

I agree the codec is not a big deal. I would have even took pixel binned FF 4k but man, the crop...

Which Samsung camera has FF 4K? APS-C is commonly referred to as a Super 35mm sized sensor. The crop of aps-c, is 1.6, so the 5d mk iv will be a little over... Basically super 35mm. 

[David Bowgett]

15 minutes ago, swithdrawn said:

Samsung managed to figure out 4k FF years ago.

They managed to figure out APS-C 4K, yeah, but full-frame? IIRC they had a prototype full-frame sensor and camera that was near to production when they pulled the plug on their line, but there's never been any word on how it would have performed.

As to the age-old "Samsung figured 4K out, why can't the rest?" question, bear in mind that Samsung aren't just a consumer electronics manufacturer, they're widely regarded as being second-only to the behemoth that is Intel when it comes to manufacturing semiconductor chips. I don't think it's just a coincidence that Samsung managed to get 4K APS-C right with only some minor problems, while Canon and Nikon have resorted to crops, Panasonic smaller sensors and Sony either horrible rolling shutter and overheating problems (A6300, and A7Rii to a lesser extent) or a low megapixel count in stills (A7S and A7Sii).

[Andrew Reid]

Didn't Samsung put their Super 35mm CMOS from the NX1 on the open market? Why did Nikon or Canon not buy this, back it up with more Samsung chips as is common in the wider semiconductors industry and build their own camera around it?

There are no excuses for Canon and Nikon not to push things to the limit....

I am tired of the lame excuses for products and their wide margins at the expense of innovation

Frankly it is embarrassing.

How much more evolution can you do with a 1970's SLR?

[Sam232]

[swithdrawn]

4 hours ago, David Bowgett said:

They managed to figure out APS-C 4K, yeah, but full-frame? IIRC they had a prototype full-frame sensor and camera that was near to production when they pulled the plug on their line, but there's never been any word on how it would have performed.

As to the age-old "Samsung figured 4K out, why can't the rest?" question, bear in mind that Samsung aren't just a consumer electronics manufacturer, they're widely regarded as being second-only to the behemoth that is Intel when it comes to manufacturing semiconductor chips. I don't think it's just a coincidence that Samsung managed to get 4K APS-C right with only some minor problems, while Canon and Nikon have resorted to crops, Panasonic smaller sensors and Sony either horrible rolling shutter and overheating problems (A6300, and A7Rii to a lesser extent) or a low megapixel count in stills (A7S and A7Sii).

Yeah, my bad. I meant they figured out how to oversample from a larger sensor to produce a 4k image that was taken from the entire sensor, and not from a cropped portion of it. Good points about Samsung's strengths in chip manufacturing... wish Canon would get it sorted out. 

[Andrew Reid]

Sony have a 42MP sensor and at least they gave us a choice -

Full frame sensor readout using pixel binning for 4K without crop
Super 35mm crop from 5K sensor area

With Canon they have a 30MP sensor and they are doing in 4K mode -

A 1.74 crop only

And a lack of Canon LOG is silly.

This is a camera with a 5 year shelf life and it leaves them seriously exposed to competitors in that time frame to come...

All that the others need to sort out is their own Dual Pixel AF as well implemented and as user friendly as on the 5D Mark IV.

[jpfilmz]

 

[David Bowgett]

16 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Didn't Samsung put their Super 35mm CMOS from the NX1 on the open market? Why did Nikon or Canon not buy this, back it up with more Samsung chips as is common in the wider semiconductors industry and build their own camera around it?

I was actually hoping that there'd be something to the rumours about Nikon buying up Samsung's photography business, but it looks like that was a load of hot air, unless Nikon are just taking their sweet time incorporating the technology into their range.