Canon XC15

[gatopardo]

XC15 (new XC10) is a possibility! : http://www.canonwatch.com/canon-xc15-camcorder-coming-soon-xc15-mention-support-page-suggests-cw4/

 

[Flynn]

If Canon is able to put a 24-100mm equivalent f1.8-2.8 in the G7x  which is tiny compared to the XC10, surely they can provide an even better lens with a similar focal length for the XC15. I know the slow lens tended to be the first thing most people complained about.

[mercer]

The XC15 moniker suggests it may be a small upgrade. If I had to guess, perhaps a constant f2.8 lens with a better focus ring or maybe 5-Axis in 4K. Of course, those are my only issues with the camera, so they would be a major upgrade in my mind. Otherwise maybe some higher frame rates in 4K and maybe some higher bitrates in 1080p. 

If they do announce soon, I hope they do it on the August 25th announcement date, because I can still return my XC10 I bought a little over 3 weeks ago, if the upgrades are big. 

[KrisAK]

Dual-pixel focus would be the only thing (at the moment, anyway) that that would make me consider an upgrade.

[The Chris]

DPAF and the pimpy touch focus pulls along with 5-axis. A faster lens with less reach would be welcome - something like a 24-105 f/1.8-2.8, or even something a wider like the Nikon DL's 18-50.

XC15 instead of XC10mkII makes me think its a second XC camera to sell alongside the XC10, not a replacement.

[Jimmy]

Could be very interesting... really like the former factor... just disliked the lens

[mat33]

Well looking at the differences between the XA30 and XA35, which are part of the XC10's camcorder group, I wouldn't be surprised if the XC15 only adds HD/SDI output for news broadcasters and maybe some type of XLR input or add-on pack. You would think if it was a new lens, dual pixel focus (which would imply a new sensor?) then it would be an XC20 based on the XA ranges naming history.

[tugela]

On ‎8‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 7:42 AM, KrisAK said:

Dual-pixel focus would be the only thing (at the moment, anyway) that that would make me consider an upgrade.

Unlikely. That would require a new sensor and probably significant rejiggering of the electronics. That would be more along the lines of a significant upgrade and probably it would be called an XC20 in that case.

It is more likely to be more refined build quality and a firmware update. The "5" designation usually (in Canon's case) means the same internal parts, but with a few added external features, such as connection ports and such. Maybe extra buttons or something like that.

[mercer]

18 minutes ago, tugela said:

Unlikely. That would require a new sensor and probably significant rejiggering of the electronics. That would be more along the lines of a significant upgrade and probably it would be called an XC20 in that case.

It is more likely to be more refined build quality and a firmware update. The "5" designation usually (in Canon's case) means the same internal parts, but with a few added external features, such as connection ports and such. Maybe extra buttons or something like that.

Idk, they did a mid line upgrade adding DPAF to the c100, so I could totally see the XC15 adding DPAF and as you said a few added buttons. I doubt it will be a heftier body because the body already is hefty, so unless they add weather sealing, I really don't see what more they could do. Maybe they could add the mjpeg 4K. I think any lens change would be part of mkii or xc20. I assume the xc10 has been selling better at $1999, but they like the $2500 price point, so the XC15 will add enough features for that price bracket. 

[Mattias Burling]

23 hours ago, mat33 said:

Well looking at the differences between the XA30 and XA35, which are part of the XC10's camcorder group, I wouldn't be surprised if the XC15 only adds HD/SDI output for news broadcasters and maybe some type of XLR input or add-on pack. You would think if it was a new lens, dual pixel focus (which would imply a new sensor?) then it would be an XC20 based on the XA ranges naming history.

The difference however is that the Canon XA35, XA30 and Legria 40 are all the same cameras and was released at the same time. 
Just like the XA25 (has SDI), XA20 (No SDI) and Legria 30 (no XLR).

So its not exactly their MO to release them separate. Then again, its not exactly their MO to release a new version so shortly after the previous.

Either way, any sort of update, minor or big, should lower the prices of a used XC10. Which is of course always welcomed.
Hopefully we will know on Thursday.

[mat33]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Idk, they did a mid line upgrade adding DPAF to the c100, so I could totally see the XC15 adding DPAF and as you said a few added buttons. I doubt it will be a heftier body because the body already is hefty, so unless they add weather sealing, I really don't see what more they could do. Maybe they could add the mjpeg 4K. I think any lens change would be part of mkii or xc20. I assume the xc10 has been selling better at $1999, but they like the $2500 price point, so the XC15 will add enough features for that price bracket. 

If they do add DPAF hopefully they offer this as an upgrade option for existing XC10 owners like they did with the C100.

[mercer]

6 minutes ago, mat33 said:

If they do add DPAF hopefully they offer this as an upgrade option for existing XC10 owners like they did with the C100.

Yes, I agree. I just hope they announce this week because my 30 day return window is quickly approaching and if it is a major upgrade, like a faster, constant aperture lens or 5-Axis in 4K, I will gladly fork up the extra cash. 

Btw, how do you like the XC10?

[Lintelfilm]

21 minutes ago, mat33 said:

If they do add DPAF hopefully they offer this as an upgrade option for existing XC10 owners like they did with the C100.

Highly doubt it. The fixed lens doesn't make  the sensor very accessible. The low price of the camera would make sensor replacement proportionally expensive. 

[mercer]

35 minutes ago, Lintelfilm said:

Highly doubt it. The fixed lens doesn't make  the sensor very accessible. The low price of the camera would make sensor replacement proportionally expensive. 

How do we know the current sensor isn't capable of DPAF with just a firmware update?

[Lintelfilm]

5 minutes ago, mercer said:

How do we know the current sensor isn't capable of DPAF with just a firmware update?

Because dual pixel is a physical property of the sensor. If the XC10 sensor was made as dual pixel it would be in use. Wouldn't make  sense to equip it but not to implement it. 

[mercer]

5 minutes ago, Lintelfilm said:

Because dual pixel is a physical property of the sensor. If the XC10 sensor was made as dual pixel it would be in use. Wouldn't make  sense to equip it but not to implement it. 

I don't know, I could see Canon doing that. Release it without it last year and then with it this year. They basically get more mileage out of the same product, plus they can get a paid upgrade from current owners. 

[tugela]

2 hours ago, mercer said:

Idk, they did a mid line upgrade adding DPAF to the c100, so I could totally see the XC15 adding DPAF and as you said a few added buttons. I doubt it will be a heftier body because the body already is hefty, so unless they add weather sealing, I really don't see what more they could do. Maybe they could add the mjpeg 4K. I think any lens change would be part of mkii or xc20. I assume the xc10 has been selling better at $1999, but they like the $2500 price point, so the XC15 will add enough features for that price bracket. 

From what I read, the construction is somewhat flimsy. For example, the camera that The Camera Store used for their review apparently had it's lens fall off (they showed it in their annual year end summary video). So stuff like that would be remedied I expect. A "pro" camera should be able to take a certain amount of abuse and keep on ticking, and it is not clear if that is true of the XC10.

They might like a $2500 price point, but in reality the camera should be selling at around $1500, considering what it is. I expect their sales volume might be quite a bit better at that price point. I think they probably rationalized it in terms of it being a "pro" camera, when the market it should really be aiming at is the G40 crowd. With a XC15 they might structure it that way, with the old XC10 being priced in the mid 1K range, and a more "pro" version (the XC15) at the $2500 price point, much like they did with the G30/XA20/25 cameras (which were all basically the same camera, but with different levels of bells and whistles added to the shell).

1 hour ago, Lintelfilm said:

Highly doubt it. The fixed lens doesn't make  the sensor very accessible. The low price of the camera would make sensor replacement proportionally expensive. 

It is also not consistent with their general consumer sales strategy, where they will include improvements as a motivation to buy the next model, rather than, say, do a firmware upgrade of existing products. Firmware upgrades only happen with the really high end stuff targeted at the true professional market, not the products intended for consumers.

[mercer]

9 minutes ago, tugela said:

From what I read, the construction is somewhat flimsy. For example, the camera that The Camera Store used for their review apparently had it's lens fall off (they showed it in their annual year end summary video). So stuff like that would be remedied I expect. A "pro" camera should be able to take a certain amount of abuse and keep on ticking, and it is not clear if that is true of the XC10.

They might like a $2500 price point, but in reality the camera should be selling at around $1500, considering what it is. I expect their sales volume might be quite a bit better at that price point. I think they probably rationalized it in terms of it being a "pro" camera, when the market it should really be aiming at is the G40 crowd. With a XC15 they might structure it that way, with the old XC10 being priced in the mid 1K range, and a more "pro" version (the XC15) at the $2500 price point, much like they did with the G30/XA20/25 cameras (which were all basically the same camera, but with different levels of bells and whistles added to the shell).

It is also not consistent with their general consumer sales strategy, where they will include improvements as a motivation to buy the next model, rather than, say, do a firmware upgrade of existing products. Firmware upgrades only happen with the really high end stuff targeted at the true professional market, not the products intended for consumers.

Here we go again...

Trust me the build quality is just fine. I have not seen the Camera Store review but I assume they had their hands on a preproduction model because the model I have is built pretty well.

And as far as I know, this camera is marketed as a professional camcorder.

[Lintelfilm]

48 minutes ago, tugela said:

They might like a $2500 price point, but in reality the camera should be selling at around $1500, considering what it is. 

You do realise the same has been said about every Canon camera ever, and always by people who look at spec sheets first and never by people who shoot professionally day in day out? Canon charge a premium for their cameras based on their ability to deliver where it really matters for real world shooting. They're intentionally conservative on paper but no one produces solid all-round cameras like Canon.

The XC10 was not created to please EOSHD readers. It's a pro tool for when a small inconspicuous shot grabber is needed. It delivers beautiful, true professional image quality with minimum fuss. There's room for improvement but coming from a BMPCC and GH4 it's ridiculous how little work I have to do and how much better and more useable the shots are.

[Lintelfilm]

1 hour ago, tugela said:

From what I read, the construction is somewhat flimsy. For example, the camera that The Camera Store used for their review apparently had it's lens fall off (they showed it in their annual year end summary video). So stuff like that would be remedied I expect. A "pro" camera should be able to take a certain amount of abuse and keep on ticking, and it is not clear if that is true of the XC10.

They might like a $2500 price point, but in reality the camera should be selling at around $1500, considering what it is. I expect their sales volume might be quite a bit better at that price point. I think they probably rationalized it in terms of it being a "pro" camera, when the market it should really be aiming at is the G40 crowd. With a XC15 they might structure it that way, with the old XC10 being priced in the mid 1K range, and a more "pro" version (the XC15) at the $2500 price point, much like they did with the G30/XA20/25 cameras (which were all basically the same camera, but with different levels of bells and whistles added to the shell).

It is also not consistent with their general consumer sales strategy, where they will include improvements as a motivation to buy the next model, rather than, say, do a firmware upgrade of existing products. Firmware upgrades only happen with the really high end stuff targeted at the true professional market, not the products intended for consumers.

The XC10 is an out and out pro camera. It looks a bit consumer but that's part of its appeal. It's for ENG and doc work where small, light and inconspicuous is desirable. The images it delivers are for pro use, not just because of the broadcast approved codec but the superb IS, the log profile, the low noise, the good if not perfect AF, the ND, the colour space, the 10 bit output, etc, etc. None of that is consumer targeted.