Canon 5d Mark IV press release and specs!

[Justin Bacle]

56 minutes ago, mercer said:

Canon stole the idea from ML? Please reread that comment with a rational mind. ML would not have existed without Canon. And I highly doubt ML invented HDR.

No but they implemented dual ISO (correct me if I'm wrong)

[omar]

3 hours ago, Nikkor said:

Holy Crop!!!

LOL...This about sums up the canon 5d iv press release. 

[mercer]

15 minutes ago, Justin Bacle said:

No but they implemented dual ISO (correct me if I'm wrong)

There's a difference between implementing and creating it. I don't believe a person can steal an idea from someone who didn't create it. That's what I was referring to in that comment. 

Now I'm not trying to take anything away from ML. Canon should have hired those guys to run their DSLRCine division. Well they should have created a DSLRCine division first and then hired them.

What the ML guys did was revolutionary and it is simply astonishing that the 5dmkii with ML Raw is still a relevant image 8 years after the camera was released.

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, Cinegain said:

I'll start. So, Andrew, how does ShootingDCI.com sound to ya?

 

AnthingButEOS.com

Wonder if "BeyondHD.com" is taken. 

1 hour ago, mercer said:

is still a relevant image 8 years after the camera was released.

wow, true, 8yrs since 50D came out! And then a little while after the 5Dmk2

[Viet Bach Bui]

I think ML's dual iso is not an actual merging of 2 different exposures but rather alternating between 2 iso values for each line of sensor readout.

[Luke Mason]

HDR video works on 5D Mark IV by shooting 60fps 1080p with two alternating exposure setting, then the camera merges these two exposures to create an HDR 30fps 1080p video.

[Jimmy]

1 hour ago, Luke Mason said:

HDR video works on 5D Mark IV by shooting 60fps 1080p with two alternating exposure setting, then the camera merges these two exposures to create an HDR 30fps 1080p video.

Do you have a source for that info.... The shot in the alleyway is going pretty fast and there is no sign of ghosting. I think it is dual ISO or maybe some trick from the dual pixel tech.

[Luke Mason]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

Do you have a source for that info.... The shot in the alleyway is going pretty fast and there is no sign of ghosting. I think it is dual ISO or maybe some trick from the dual pixel tech.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-5d-iv/canon-5d-ivA.HTM

[tugela]

13 hours ago, Viet Bach Bui said:

In the HDR ON version of the beach shot the path to the beach looks underexposed to me. The car interior shot is a bit better. I would say it's around 1.5 stop of additonal DR, but what are the tradeoffs?

That is because the "wow" factor is the beach at the end (which is overexposed still anyway). If the path had been properly exposed then the final scene would be less impressive.

Marketing.

11 hours ago, TSV said:

What really baffled me here with the 5DMKIV, 1DX MKII and MJPEG, is that the XC10 (Like it or hate it) is a 2000 USD Camera with an inferior Image processor (Digic 5) but comes with a more "modern" codec : XF-AVC 4.2.2 Codec 8Bit internal and 10 external and Canon Log.

If they could have done that on a Digic5 IP, why can't they do that on a new Digic6+ IP??!?!?

The XC10 has a Digic DV5, which is the video equivalent of the Digic 7. It is NOT an inferior processor, it is actually a better processor than the one in the 5D4.

7 hours ago, mercer said:

Canon stole the idea from ML? Please reread that comment with a rational mind. ML would not have existed without Canon. And I highly doubt ML invented HDR.

I think he is referring to the idea and process for doing it in camera, not the concept of HDR itself.

10 hours ago, Nikkor said:

Holy Crop!!!

My interpretation of that is there is no advantage in using the 5D4 as a hybrid over native crop cameras when shooting 4K. You might still get the FF look in HD, but that is probably going to be regular Canon mush, so not competitive with competitor models that do full sensor readouts.

 

I have one question. Does it have dual processors or just one? If it has only one it probably will not perform as well as the 1DXII. I am guessing it has two, since it seems that most recent enthusiast cameras from Canon do.

[Flynn]

6 hours ago, mercer said:

What the ML guys did was revolutionary and it is simply astonishing that the 5dmkii with ML Raw is still a relevant image 8 years after the camera was released.

It shows how easy it has been to dramatically improve the video specs of these cameras and that the manufacturers refuse to do so. We're talking about a camera that is almost 10 years old. I can understand the thinking of Canon, Panasonic, and Sony holding back to varying degrees. They've got expensive video cameras to protect. But Nikon, Olympus, and Fuji dropped the ball. They could have made serious inroads if they had recognized how important video was becoming.

[tugela]

5 minutes ago, Flynn said:

It shows how easy it has been to dramatically improve the video specs of these cameras and that the manufacturers refuse to do so. We're talking about a camera that is almost 10 years old. I can understand the thinking of Canon, Panasonic, and Sony holding back to varying degrees. They've got expensive video cameras to protect. But Nikon, Olympus, and Fuji dropped the ball. They could have made serious inroads if they had recognized how important video was becoming.

The problem is that those companies are dominated by old conservative dudes who grew up in the stills world, and don't understand how the imaging paradigm is changing in the modern world. That is why they always seems to be so far behind the user base in their way of thinking.

[Andrew Reid]

2 hours ago, tugela said:

The XC10 has a Digic DV5, which is the video equivalent of the Digic 7. It is NOT an inferior processor, it is actually a better processor than the one in the 5D4.

I am guessing the main difference are the teams behind them

Looks like Canon have distinct stills and video teams who work separately on programming the chips

These guys are primarily controlled by their bosses though

And I am pretty sure their bosses follow a strict overall company strategy

Which is to divide EOS photography lines and Cinema EOS lines very carefully so they don't cannibalise one another in terms of pro stills or video features

[TSV]

On 8/25/2016 at 5:46 PM, gt3rs said:

Because the XC10 has a small detail called cooler fan......

I was not aware of this fact. 

[Policar]

On August 25, 2016 at 8:41 AM, IronFilm said:

AnthingButEOS.com

That sounds about right. 

The Alexa also seems under-represented on this site, you'd think everyone here would embrace it. The 6k MF alexa gets love, understandably. I haven't used it but I get why you guys here who have used it would love it, my budget is just limited to the original Alexa usually, and since I don't shoot for theatrical releases about 2k, 2k is enough for me.

So unlike the majority here, I like shooting on the original Alexa, despite the crop and low res 2k and 1080p (which are softer than the C300 let alone the A6300, the sharpest of all). I like other Canons cameras for having the best looking color and image even in terms of chroma clipping, flawed in the A7 series and unfixable in the grade. But my eyes are going soft so maybe I don't appreciate resolution above all else as younger more talented eyes do and I'm used to Super 35 (like the 5d 4, which is 1.64 crop aka S35, not 1.74 crop, as is erroneously quoted for no reason) because it's what I grew up on and thus I forgive those faults like a crop to the ideal standard format and a resolution that's only on par with the highest end format of distribution currently available for its other merits like the best lenses available and best color available and while we can still use the 18-35mm sigma and 14-20mm Tokina we are missing out on like five overpriced underperforming Canon-brand EF-S lenses so sure this is a tragedy.

To be honest, I'd pick the 1DC for stills. But for stills I'd still buy it the 5D and if I had it for stills I'd still use it for video. But I get that S35, the cinema standard for 100 years, and 4k–more resolution than 35mm film has ever had–isn't enough for most here. The Revenant wasn't good looking enough. Resolution and image capture size good enough for an Oscar win in photography and picture... no... too soft.

Which is why I treasure this forum. Forget content. Forget art. Let's bicker over meaningless specs and inconsequential price changes (if you're charging less than four figures a day wet hire to shoot, what are you even doing–and four figures a day pays gear off fast).

[Andrew Reid]

2 hours ago, Policar said:

Which is why I treasure this forum. Forget content. Forget art. Let's bicker over meaningless specs and inconsequential price changes (if you're charging less than four figures a day wet hire to shoot, what are you even doing–and four figures a day pays gear off fast).

Ah yes specs are so meaningless Policar.... After all that's why you shoot on an Alexa!!

[The Chris]

4 hours ago, Policar said:

Which is why I treasure this forum. Forget content. Forget art. Let's bicker over meaningless specs and inconsequential price changes (if you're charging less than four figures a day wet hire to shoot, what are you even doing–and four figures a day pays gear off fast).

I'm pretty sure most of the shooters on this forum aren't buying camera bodies that run $25k+ used, so we're looking for the best IQ bang for the buck. So what you consider "meaningless and inconsequential" is meaningful to others. But yes, please play the douchebag "content" card in a gear discussion just to make your post a little more condescending.

[Andrew Reid]

Indeed EOSHD was NEVER about the $25k+ stuff and Alexa, it has always been a majority community for affordable gear and always will be.

Anyway good luck taking your Alexa to a stills shoot Policar

[IronFilm]

I do dream about buying an Alexa.....  even if it is just an old secondhand Arri Alexa Classic

This shows an overview of the various models, for the curious:
https://www.arri.com/camera/alexa/cameras/alexa_cameras_overview/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arri_Alexa#Alexa

Hmmmm.... prices of them are coming down ever lower, here is a couple around the US$17K-ish mark or a bit more:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arri-Alexa-EV-16-9-High-Speed-120fps-w-Arriflex-EVF-1-Viewfinder-PL-Mount-/182225944123?hash=item2a6d833e3b:g:RJQAAOSwIgNXncYM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARRI-Alexa-Plus-HS-with-LDS-/252492760740?hash=item3ac9bdc6a4:g:m~IAAOSw3mpXH6sP

Maybe by 2020 my finances will have risen high enough and prices will have fallen far enough that I could buy one myself! haha :-D  

[IronFilm]

Just because I'm curious, I did a bit of digging into how much the total cost would be practically speaking. As we all know the body itself is merely the start of the costs!

A common big big cost with these professional cameras is memory, Arri Alexa Classic uses SxS cards. Even the oldest SxS cards secondhand are "cheap" but very expensive if you're used to SD card pricing! And older SxS cards are no good in an Arri Alexa as they can't handle the full capabilities of the Arri Alexa Classic of 2K 4:3 ProRes 444:

https://www.arri.com/fileadmin/media/arri.com/camera/Digital_Cameras/Camera_Comparison/SUP_11_Data_Rates_ALEXA_Classic_and_XT.pdf

But you probably wouldn't be buying a 4:3 version, rather the 16:9 version which would tend to be cheaper. In that case, the data rate is lower, might be able to get away with the older SxS cards? (even I have a couple, came along for free with my Sony F3! However.... an Arri Alexa would need several more! As you'd be filling them up too fast)

But it just the target rate listed in that PDF, and not the max rate. Thus these older SxS cards could not work if they get maxed out, but... this adapter for SxS cards using cheap SD cards (such as any of the many fast SD cards many of us have for our BMPCCs!) can do up to 480MB/s, which gives a bit more head room.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/786662-REG/Sonnet_SD_SXS_E34_SDHC_Adapter_for_SxS.html

However... not much more head room! So if that isn't enough, can always get this instead:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/840666-REG/Sony_QDA_EX1_SC1_XQD_ExpressCard_Adapter.html

Yes, it is XQD cards which are much more expensive than SD cards!  But XQD cards are heaps heaps cheaper than SxS Pro cards!! :-D Plus XQD cards have came down in price a lot lately, and I expect XQD to drop even more in price as various more affordable cameras come to market that use XQD (FS5/D500/D5/etc). 

They're already more affordable than what we've paid for SD cards in the very recent past (I paid more for my BMPCC cards when I bought them):

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1261721-REG/sony_qdg128e_j_128gb_xqd_g_e_memory_card.html

And you can be sure these XQD cards are way way faster than needed for 2K ProRes 444.

They've been tested in the Sony F5/F55 (which also uses SxS cards, and needs very fast cards):

http://www.hingsberg.com/index.php/2013/12/xqd-cards-for-sony-f5-f55/

Thus that is media "solved" in an affordable way! Thousands saved here.

However the really big sticking point is lenses! Even "cheap" PL lenses can cost a fortune.  And if one of us was to be mad enough to buy an Arri Alexa, we sadly might not have anything left over to buy PL lenses..... could we use our existing lenses? A Nikon F mount would be ideal in my eyes, and I've done some digging but failed to turn up anything There might maybe exist a very rare copy or two of Arri Alexas that have been modded (Panavised Alexas are the obvious more common example), but basically it seems not to be an option for us. Arri Amira & Mini do have common options for adapters to use Nikon F mount lenses and other options, but of course those are much *much* more recent cameras and would cost a lot more to buy either an Amira or Mini!

So hmmmm.... what to do?? Seems any Arri Alexa purchase would require also getting a set of Sony CineAlta PL / XEEN / PL modded stills lenses (such as GL Optics) / SLR Magic PL / RED lenses on the "cheap" to use with the camera, which a working set could easily run up to another ten thousand give or take a few thousand either side. 

Either that or wait for an Amira or Mini to fall down in price far enough to become "affordable", which would be a very looooong wait indeed!

 

Edit: hmmmm..... I stumbled across this, but any more info is sadly lacking! But just maybe maaaaybe....  does an aftermarket Nikon F mount for the Arri Alexa Classic exist that can be added on by the user?? 

https://web.archive.org/web/20120321192849/http://www.hotrodcameras.com/?p=3728

Then I found this:

http://cinescopophilia.com/hot-rod-cameras-2012-roadmap-includes-nikoncine-alexa-mount/

But now the trail runs cold :-/ 

If this can be found then it would shave thousands and thousands of dollars off the total outlay cost for a DSLR shooter to step up and buy a secondhand Arri Alexa Classic!

Edit 2: Hooray!!! Have found now THE ANSWER!! This mod exists:

http://www.leitax.com/conversion/Cine/Alexa/index.html

Can buy it here:

http://www.leitax.com/Leica-lens-for-Cinema-cameras.html

[IronFilm]

http://blog.planet5d.com/2016/08/rant-the-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-doesnt-have/

"Canon has designed a DSLR that does what 80-90% of the market needs. I’ve said this before until i’m blue in the face too: Not everyone needs 4k! 4k video is still such a small hunk of the market. Growing but Canon’s growing into that market too"

Wow, he basically outright admits the 5Dmk4 is **NOT** a 4K camera! Ha

Fair enough,  I could probably agree with that as an honest assessment of the 5Dmk4. But that is not what Canon is trying to spin it as! And as a camera that will have 4+ years on the marketplace as one of their leading products, that is a very sad situation by Canon.