1.74x - A Crop Odyssey - Canon 5D Mark IV officially announced

[Jimmy]

1 hour ago, k-robert said:

BUT

Everybody, just a bit serious about photography makes a decision for a brand, trusts a company, and invests in that system. So when you have invested in lenses, flashes, remote controls, etc… you might be disappointed, if your chosen company lets you down. You have thought, you make a strategic partnership, and you are a hostage. So when you develop anti-stockholm syndrome, you are going to be angry and hate that buster. And it is your best right to express these feelings and even flame

The problem is that video people tied themselves into Canon based on the notion that Canon would start adding video features and make video centric DSLRs... Unfortuntly, there was zero evidence of this happening... So they kinda have themselves to blame.

[kidzrevil]

15 hours ago, Luke Mason said:

It's a perfect Super 35mm crop, same size as many other cinema cameras. Some people don't like it and prefer FF look, but it's definitely not useless.

Umm no. Its definitely not s35 equivalent

14 hours ago, myJTP said:

Luke... I have to say THANK YOU for posting CLEAR and true statements about the 5Dmk4... It seems EVERYONE is blindly hating on this camera because it doesn't do a FF 4K@120 video, take photos, brush your teeth, comb your hair, and take out your trash. There is never going to be a PERFECT camera let alone one for under $2999.  And if ANYONE thinking a GH5 is going to be a stellar STILLS camera has got to be kidding themselves.  Canon has made no bones about the fact that the 5Dmk4 is a STILLs camera first and foremost with really good basic video features which are MORE than useable in capable hands.  I also find it VERY interesting the people who crap on canon the most never want to show their own demo reel of work.... just my two cents... thanks Luke and keep hope alive!! Let the bashing begin

 

P.S. Im very interesting in see how the Fuji X-T2 does for 4K even though it's a dreaded 1.7 crop I always liked Fuji Colors and its a pretty nice priced option.

I could show you my reel. 5D mark IV still looks trash though

[sanveer]

I noticed that the Video HDR feature on the 5D Mark iv seems like some scam. In regular mode it pushes Dynamic Range in video to that of a smartphone (basically Terrible). And then has an HDR setting to bring it average/ normal levels. From the various Videos and Frame grabs I saw (online), in regular mode video seems to be about 7-8 stops, and in HDR mode maybe 8-9 stops. 

I dunno if it's funny or ludicrous. 

[Ivanhurba]

A couple of things we forgot, Canon announced they would rise their prices a couple of months ago. Now in half a year they'll be able to lower the price and entice those who fail to preorder or buy at full price. And it looks they still have to announce a kind of C100 MKIII. Pity there will be some hefty competition. Canon suit bean counters are going to lose terrain to maneuver this time. I rooted for Nikon but for some reason I don't feel the same for Canon even though I still carry a lot of their lenses and a MK II.

 

[sandro]

Does 1.74x crop mean also a lower DR, less than classic APS-C?

[David Bowgett]

1 minute ago, sandro said:

Does 1.74x crop mean also a lower DR, less than classic APS-C?

It shouldn't make any difference by itself; the D500 has pretty decent amount of dynamic range (when using the flat profile) despite a roughly 2.2x crop in its 4K mode. If anything, it's the lack of C-Log that'll hurt the 5Div in that department.

[Andrew Reid]

7 minutes ago, sandro said:

Does 1.74x crop mean also a lower DR, less than classic APS-C?

No but low light performance might take a hit due to the 1:1 crop.

Oversampling improves low light performance - look at the Super 35mm mode on the A7R II.

[Andrew Reid]

4 minutes ago, duffman said:

Look, for fucks sake, Canon have the C line for video shooters which are superb for 99% of everything. How many times does it need saying?

Not enough times for some people, judging by the way they are STILL going on about this again and again. Here's how Philip Bloom has started responding to this "just use a cinema EOS / insert video camera name here" bullshit -

"thats such a boring, dull, oft repeated, lazy. apologist and close minded comment! Smaller cameras like this are incredibly important...gimbal work and documentary work for example PLUS the whole joy of 5Dmk2 when it came out was FULL FRAME. There are NO full frame video cameras. I should have this reply on copy and paste."

 

Ever since I started EOSHD people have been saying "just use a camcorder" blah blah blah it's a stills camera not a video camera

It totally misses the point!

[Photato]

It is 1.84 X crop when doing 16:9 video.

And 1.74 X for those who live in lala 17:9 land

[Damphousse]

9 hours ago, DPC said:

I predict that in the next couple of years FF / DLSR will stop being perceived as required for pro photographers (it's already less and less the case). And that, with declining budgets for commissions vs the speed at which the equipment becomes obsolete, it's going to be increasingly absurd for most pros to invest heavily in gear. The only investment that makes sense is intellectual. So with specs like this Olympus and Panasonic really do have a card to play. The OMD EM1 ii and the GH5 could be massive hits. You really don't need 30 or 45 or 50 mpx. 

Don't hold your breath.

This is the gear room at Canon's London Olympics office...

And they did it again for Rio...

I somehow doubt Panasonic or Olympus have similar support infrastructure for sports photographers.

The people have spoken.

[Photato]

21 minutes ago, duffman said:

Look, for fucks sake, Canon have the C line for video shooters which are superb for 99% of everything. How many times does it need saying? They already have super high megapixel body for billboard shooters too so there's no reason for the 5DVI to push in that direction. The 5d mk4 is an everyday, do it all, full frame dslr for those who don't need the very best of either, but want solid all around performance. Stop being a dick.

Canon is being a dick by not providing UHD. Just give me a reason why they did not? I'll be waiting

[Sinjun Balabanoff]

I was waiting for this camera to come out, hoping it would have the 4k quality and crop factor of the 1DC (perhaps foolishly) with the smaller compression of the A7sII... I guess now I'm just going to wait a bit longer for 1DC used prices to go down and buy that. I would love to be convinced to get an a7sII but I've still yet to see a single sample online that evokes the same color and depth I find so lovely out of the 1DC (and C300mk2 but that one is far outside of my price range). 

[mkabi]

Well... what a... *I'm not going to say it*

Here is to looking at a 5DC someday.

[Andrew Reid]

13 hours ago, mkabi said:

Well... what a... *I'm not going to say it*

Here is to looking at a 5DC someday.

Knowing Canon they will just change the badge and chart $12k for it!!

And add a 4K HDMI output

[Alex T]

In 2016 I'm quite indifferent to Canon product launches tbh. Maybe couple of year ago I'd be really frustrated if Canon released a successor to the 5DIII that was this lackluster. But there are so many other options out there now. I don't even buy Canon lenses anymore! There is so much variety it's great  

[DBounce]

23 hours ago, Photato said:

Canon is being a dick by not providing UHD. Just give me a reason why they did not? I'll be waiting

Yes, not providing a uhd option is bogus... but the mjpeg and poor quality 1080p are really inexcusable. I was hoping to pickup the mkiv as a b-cam to my 1dx mkii. However, I can see my plans will now need to change.   

A pity really. The video  from the new camera looks good, but that crop is disappointing. Low light is not as good as the 1dx mkii... no tilt screen. The reduced weight would have been great on a gimbal,  but alas, this is Canon. 

Btw Canon, I'll take that CLog firmware update on the 1dx mkii... quit holding back on basic features... and fix the hd mode... my smartphone is sharper... no, really!

On 8/25/2016 at 7:11 PM, myJTP said:

Luke... I have to say THANK YOU for posting CLEAR and true statements about the 5Dmk4... It seems EVERYONE is blindly hating on this camera because it doesn't do a FF 4K@120 video, take photos, brush your teeth, comb your hair, and take out your trash. There is never going to be a PERFECT camera let alone one for under $2999.  And if ANYONE thinking a GH5 is going to be a stellar STILLS camera has got to be kidding themselves.  Canon has made no bones about the fact that the 5Dmk4 is a STILLs camera first and foremost with really good basic video features which are MORE than useable in capable hands.  I also find it VERY interesting the people who crap on canon the most never want to show their own demo reel of work.... just my two cents... thanks Luke and keep hope alive!! Let the bashing begin

 

P.S. Im very interesting in see how the Fuji X-T2 does for 4K even though it's a dreaded 1.7 crop I always liked Fuji Colors and its a pretty nice priced option.

I think the biggest problem with the argument that the 5DMkIV is a "stills camera" is perhaps the fact that canon make another "stills camera"... for the same price, called the 5DSR... and that camera can shoot 50mp stills. So if you're into stills you might be better served with that model.

[Django]

Do we know for sure the 1080p is pixel binned? if so how bad should we expect 1080P IQ? same as 5D3?

[Mattias Burling]

2 hours ago, DBounce said:

I think the biggest problem with the argument that the 5DMkIV is a "stills camera" is perhaps the fact that canon make another "stills camera"... for the same price, called the 5DSR... and that camera can shoot 50mp stills. So if you're into stills you might be better served with that model.

High mp isn't the end all spec for a stills camera.

[independent]

I'm not surprised. Aside from the unreliable promo videos, with questionable grades, I expect the actual quality of the video to be similar to the 1DX II, aside from the difference in crop and frame rates. Then again, the 1DX II is almost double the price of the 5D IV, so it's reasonable to expect some differences.

The 5D IV is at a similar price point to the Sony a7r II, which has its own drawbacks. Color science versus crop factor? Either will be a deal breaker for some, or minor obstacles for many others. 

Still, the 5D IV has the best implementation of video autofocus on the market, quality 4K (despite the crop), good colors out of the box, rugged body and proven reliability, and of course the widest range of available lenses. 

Right now, there are only two small cameras with usable video autofocus that doesn't have some MAJOR operational limitation (a6300): The Sony a7r II and the 5d IV.

Glad to see more tools out there. 

[DPC]

On 8/26/2016 at 7:28 PM, Damphousse said:

Don't hold your breath.

This is the gear room at Canon's London Olympics office...

And they did it again for Rio...

I somehow doubt Panasonic or Olympus have similar support infrastructure for sports photographers.

The people have spoken.

Yep, I've seen that / those. But the agency / wire world is a very specific case and I wonder how many of those photographers are buying their own gear?