1.74x - A Crop Odyssey - Canon 5D Mark IV officially announced

[mkabi]

I wonder if you can take the 20 MP sensor from a 6D and throw it in a 5D4, change a few pieces of a code around and voila... frankencamera!

[wobba]

1 hour ago, independent said:

I'm not surprised. Aside from the unreliable promo videos, with questionable grades, I expect the actual quality of the video to be similar to the 1DX II, aside from the difference in crop and frame rates. Then again, the 1DX II is almost double the price of the 5D IV, so it's reasonable to expect some differences.

The 5D IV is at a similar price point to the Sony a7r II, which has its own drawbacks. Color science versus crop factor? Either will be a deal breaker for some, or minor obstacles for many others. 

Still, the 5D IV has the best implementation of video autofocus on the market, quality 4K (despite the crop), good colors out of the box, rugged body and proven reliability, and of course the widest range of available lenses. 

Right now, there are only two small cameras with usable video autofocus that doesn't have some MAJOR operational limitation (a6300): The Sony a7r II and the 5d IV.

Glad to see more tools out there. 

The 5DIV has significant rolling shutter in 4K which, I would add, is a major operational limitation. So rule this out as well. 

[Mattias Burling]

3 minutes ago, DPC said:

Yep, I've seen that / those. But the agency / wire world is a very specific case and I wonder how many of those photographers are buying their own gear?

What matters is what the spectators will buy. They are the once that makes money for the camera makers. Not the 50 pros but the 50 000 others in the arena.

Now, what do you think they will buy. Is it the same brand as they saw all the pros use? Or perhaps something from the company that makes their heat pump or old VCR.

My guess is the former.

BTW I work with professional photographers almost daily. So far I have never ever seen anything but Canon or Nikon. Unless we are talking light web content where its mostly compacts or phones. 

[independent]

27 minutes ago, wobba said:

The 5DIV has significant rolling shutter in 4K which, I would add, is a major operational limitation. So rule this out as well. 

Instead, rule out your understanding of "operational."

[DPC]

46 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

What matters is what the spectators will buy. They are the once that makes money for the camera makers. Not the 50 pros but the 50 000 others in the arena.

Now, what do you think they will buy. Is it the same brand as they saw all the pros use? Or perhaps something from the company that makes their heat pump or old VCR.

My guess is the former.

BTW I work with professional photographers almost daily. So far I have never ever seen anything but Canon or Nikon. Unless we are talking light web content where its mostly compacts or phones. 

For my pro work this year I've been using either my Sony A7R II or Panasonic or Olympus MFT. Clients don't seem to care much what camera I use because they trust me and, frankly, I have much preferred using the MFT cameras. While Canons and Nikons are still the norm, I see an awful lot of Sonys and almost everyone I know has either a MFT or APSC "everyday" camera.

 

[Mattias Burling]

 

[BucksterUK]

have to admit I saw that video yesterday and it was nearly the first video I've ever taken the effort to dislike - I was too kind though I didn't bother

[Django]

As if the crop factor wasn't bad enough news, here comes rolling shutter results...

 

[DBounce]

11 hours ago, BucksterUK said:

have to admit I saw that video yesterday and it was nearly the first video I've ever taken the effort to dislike - I was too kind though I didn't bother

Why? He was just giving his personal opinion? 

[fuzzynormal]

12 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

https://youtu.be/be1QMq72KNs

Hmm, yeah.  Everything that's wrong with youtube digital "content" on display with that vid.  Amazing, really.  I do wonder when/if people will move on from this sort of stuff?  I guess if the printed published word hasn't been able to get away from hacks in the half a millennium since it's been around, video won't be able to either.

Actually, I suppose if one is mentally at the level to appreciate this sort of clickhole, then they'll probably keep coming back to it.  Folks will always be drawn to that which caters to their level.

[Mattias Burling]

13 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

Hmm, yeah.  Everything that's wrong with youtube digital "content" on display with that vid.  Amazing, really.  I do wonder when/if people will move on from this sort of stuff?  I guess if the printed published word hasn't been able to get away from hacks in the half a millennium since it's been around, video won't be able to either.

Actually, I suppose if one is mentally at the level to appreciate this sort of clickhole, then they'll probably keep coming back to it.  Folks will always be drawn to that which caters to their level.

Yeah people are the worst, listening to a full time pro that shoots all over the world 365 days a year, how dare they.
They definitely should ask the folks online that spend most their time online and haven't touched their camera in years. Their the once that know the specs. Their the once that have all the charts, numbers and statistics. All far more important than experience when giving advice or sharing an opinion.

Any who, I started watching Veep this weekend. Funny show.
And I totally lost it when this scene came on. Very fun, true and current

 

[Django]

^ that's pretty funny mattias, but actually kind of counter argumentative. i don't know what that Youtuber's pedigree is and it probably is a lot more impressive then mine or most here yet I had to stop watching when the guy's number one reason for claiming the 5D IV is the most important announcement of 2016 is because... "well it's a 5D" !

honestly a little tired of all these VIP YT experts all rushing to brash conclusions (wether positive or negative) over a camera most haven't even handled yet (DPreview being the rare exception and remaining somewhat neutral presenting facts not opinions). it sounds more like a click race then actual insightful knowledge. 5D is surely the biggest announcement.. for the press.. that i will concede..

[Mattias Burling]

19 minutes ago, Django said:

... i don't know what that Youtuber's pedigree is ...

He is a full time stills shooter. Travels a lot and also does reviews, workshops, etc. 
Probably more famous for his name before youtube made everyone change. He used to be called "That Nikon Guy" because he is probably the biggest Nikon fan on youtube.

BTW, from the description:
"Hey Folks - sorry if I wasn't clear enough - a bit rushed. I am not suggesting it is the most jaw dropping - or perfect. But I firmly believe it will be a classic. That in 3 years, when everyone has forgotten the latest 2016 mirrorless or dslr (that has already been updated twice) - pros will still be using these daily. My second choice (so far) would be the Nikon D500."

He also started using the Sony A7x professionally and loved it. But he had to stop after their absolute disaster with tech support.
(IMO, what tha hell was Sony thinking. If they cant fix this huys camera, what are the odds that they would fix mine or yours?.
If I was Sony I would have flown him in a private jet to Tokyo and had the president deliver a new camera on his/hers bare knees  )

 

[Django]

None of that really validates the claim that 5D IV is Best Camera of the Year, although I didn't realize he was a stills shooter which really doesn't correlate much to the points being made here concerning video ( FWIW I wouldn't choose an A7R2 over a Canikon for my professional photography needs either ). If he's purely basing this on tech support though, I can tell you I got nightmare stories with Nikon Europe too (6 weeks to fix a brand new faulty D750 that had to await parts sent from China). No special VIP treatment for poor me though. Anyways as the guy states himself at the start of the vid, it's a bit silly making such claim ahead of Photokina. 

Speaking of Sony, here are the latest rumors concerning their upcoming Medium format, DSLR form factor A9 & A7 future:

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/new-set-of-low-ranked-rumors-sony-a9-a9r/

It seems we can expect much higher build quality, form factor & weather sealing etc in their upcoming roster..

 

[Mattias Burling]

17 minutes ago, Django said:

None of that really validates the claim that 5D IV is Best Camera of the Year.

 

For him it is. And its his opinion he puts out there for people to agree or disagree with. It cant be debated.
As I always say. No camera in the world has ever been better than another camera. And that's a fact. Because it all depends on who you ask and their needs, budget, etc.
I filmmaker might love an alexa but its shit for a deep sea diver. And vice versa.

[Django]

1 hour ago, Mattias Burling said:

For him it is. And its his opinion he puts out there for people to agree or disagree with. It cant be debated.
As I always say. No camera in the world has ever been better than another camera. And that's a fact. Because it all depends on who you ask and their needs, budget, etc.
I filmmaker might love an alexa but its shit for a deep sea diver. And vice versa.

Ok let's get this straight, I have zero qualms with X person stating his favorite camera in the world is X, Y or Z. We all have different needs, tastes etc.. My point is simply it's a little foolish and brash to make Best camera of the year claim before A. Having hands on experience with said camera, and B. The competition announces its products at the upcoming worlds largest photo fair. If anything this guy ironically fits the "but it's the 1D" character type.. That's all I'm saying..

[Damphousse]

5 hours ago, Django said:

My point is simply it's a little foolish and brash to make Best camera of the year claim before A. Having hands on experience with said camera, and B. The competition announces its products at the upcoming worlds largest photo fair. If anything this guy ironically fits the "but it's the 1D" character type.. That's all I'm saying..

I think he pretty clearly acknowledged the Photokina thing.

There is no "best" camera.  Everyone uses cameras for different things and you have to get the camera that is right for you.

Best Camera of the Year, Best Phone of the Year, etc are just kind of dumb things content producers say to suck in the eyeballs.  If someone asks me what the "best" camera is I first ask them their experience level and use case.  Then I give them two or three options.  Honestly if money was no object I probably would just get a Canon C series camera and be done with it.  But that is simply not the case and I can't afford $4,000 worth of depreciation happening randomly.

[Mattias Burling]

6 hours ago, Django said:

Ok let's get this straight, I have zero qualms with X person stating his favorite camera in the world is X, Y or Z. We all have different needs, tastes etc.. My point is simply it's a little foolish and brash to make Best camera of the year claim before A. Having hands on experience with said camera, and B. The competition announces its products at the upcoming worlds largest photo fair. If anything this guy ironically fits the "but it's the 1D" character type.. That's all I'm saying..

He address all that in the video so I have no problem with it.

[Django]

Like i said i stopped the video after he gave number one reason "cuz it's a 5D". Sadly that's really all it will take for a bunch of people (pros & non-pros) to consider this camera. Canon knows this and is effortlessly banking on that, rather then really push the envelope or give power-users what they want.. Anyways it is what it is.. some people will like it others won't..

[Mattias Burling]

He addresses that as well. Imho, until you've seen the video your comments on it are strange at best.