GH5 10-bit 4:2:2 internal?

[Oliver Daniel]

 

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Here's how I think it would work (scroll to half way)

http://www.eoshd.com/2016/08/exciting-true-panasonic-gh5-sounds-like-bomb-including-6k-20mp-sensor-something-not-add/

Panasonic made huge waves with the GH4 - and with cameras going for cheap with 4k recording, it would make sense for Panasonic to include something headline grabbing such as internal 10 bit. (I think 6k video won' happen).  

The 43 rumours website now says the 60fps feature is now "4k photo stills 60fps", what is this exactly? I'd buy it if 4k60p video was a feature - even if it was external. 

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

About 6k: since it is (now) mentioned as a "photo mode", probably they are considering it in a 4:3 aspect ratio - than the quantity of pixels is approximately the same of a 6k DCI image (and sounds better for marketing, and is in line with Panasonic 4k photo modes).

My concern it that IBIS was not mentioned in the specs...

[IronFilm]

Maybe the GH5's "6K" only applies to when recording in 4:3 mode for anamorphic shooters.

And we need to wait for the GH6 to see "true" 6K.

This seems very reasonable to me.

[Eno]

@IronFilm, or at least 6K in 3/2 mode. Who knows, we shall wait and see. Until now I'm very excited about the rumored specs.

[theSUBVERSIVE]

16 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Maybe the GH5's "6K" only applies to when recording in 4:3 mode for anamorphic shooters.

And we need to wait for the GH6 to see "true" 6K.

This seems very reasonable to me.

The GH6 might skip 6K since Panasonic is planning to have an 8K line up for Tokyo 2020 and by then, the organic sensor might be a real thing.

2 hours ago, ricardo_sousa11 said:

Max frame rate 27 instead of 30.

If this were true, the rolling shutter would be out of this world, and render it unusable, let alone for the same price as the GH4.

The table is just illustrative, the 20MP sensor in the table is probably the 20MP already in use by Panasonic and Sony, so the 27fps max frame rate is for that sensor. The specs of the rumour is not listed anywhere, 43Rumors's admin ended up causing confusion by posting the listed 4/3 sensor from Sony's page. If you read the post, you will see that it's just rumored, not proved, so obviously it won't be listed at Sony's page. Moreover, it's a multi-aspect sensor, it could have 20MP for stills but the total MP would be higher, around 22MP.

[Marco Tecno]

I guess 6k is going to become pretty standard for high end hybrid camera out in 2017 and 2018. I'm sure that itd be already possible on nx1 if Samsung had continued its support via fw updates.

[Ben Corwin]

I'm thinking it's hard for them to translate 4:3 resolution in video terms. There's much greater vertical resolution, but the megapixel count remains the same for "6k."

[theSUBVERSIVE]

1 hour ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

About 6k: since it is (now) mentioned as a "photo mode", probably they are considering it in a 4:3 aspect ratio - than the quantity of pixels is approximately the same of a 6k DCI image (and sounds better for marketing, and is in line with Panasonic 4k photo modes).

My concern it that IBIS was not mentioned in the specs...

If Panasonic doesn't put IBIS in the GH5, a lot of people will be very mad about it. If the GX85 has it and it can record 30min of 4K, I don't see why the GH5 wouldn't. There should be at least the option to get no time limit in 4K without IBIS and 30min with IBIS if that's the case.

[Andrew Reid]

6K is always measured horizontally so the sensor would have to be at least 6000 pixels wide to do 6K resolution.

So to have the 20MP sensor appear alongside a 6K stills feature STILL does not make any sense at all.

A 3:2 sensor would have to be 24MP
A 4:3 sensor would have to be 28MP

Very unlikely for Panasonic to use a video or cinema aspect ratio sensor in a stills camera!

So the mutli-aspect sensor is the only way they can do it, but still the rumoured specs just don't seem to quite add up to 6K!

[EspenB]

32 minutes ago, theSUBVERSIVE said:

The GH6 might skip 6K since Panasonic is planning to have an 8K line up for Tokyo 2020 and by then, the organic sensor might be a real thing.

The table is just illustrative, the 20MP sensor in the table is probably the 20MP already in use by Panasonic and Sony, so the 27fps max frame rate is for that sensor. The specs of the rumour is not listed anywhere, 43Rumors's admin ended up causing confusion by posting the listed 4/3 sensor from Sony's page. If you read the post, you will see that it's just rumored, not proved, so obviously it won't be listed at Sony's page. Moreover, it's a multi-aspect sensor, it could have 20MP for stills but the total MP would be higher, around 22MP.

Yes, current 20 megapixel sensor is 27 fps at 12 ch readout.

The new sensor is 24 channels read out and multi aspect (18.9mm*13mm).

Compared to a regular 4/3rds sensor (17.3 x 13 mm) that new sensor seems to have an aspect of 1.45 (vs 1.33 for standard).

 

EDIT: The GH2 sensor is also approx 19 mm wide in video mode.

(DPReview says the GH2 sensor is only 18.89mm on the long dimension)

 

[Andrew Reid]

New info

I am told they are indeed using a multi-aspect sensor.

It measures 18.9mm x 13mm in approx. 3:2 aspect ratio

20MP stills but the total resolution of the chip is 24MP

24MP 3:2 is approximately 6000 x 4000 (just like the Sony A6300 in 3:2 stills mode).

Then the 6K photo mode is 3:2 with full sensor readout up to 30fps burst.

The normal stills mode is a 20MP 4:3 crop of the sensor. This is why 43rumours say 20MP sensor.

The 4K video is a 16:9 crop of the sensor using the full 6K width but downsampling on the chip.

Absolutely take this is a rumour until confirmed.

But it makes total sense to me... There is *no other way* of getting 6K photos from a 20MP 4:3 sensor like that featured on the GX8.

[EspenB]

1 minute ago, Andrew Reid said:

New info

I am told they are indeed using a multi-aspect sensor.

It measures 18.9mm x 13mm in approx. 3:2 aspect ratio

20MP stills but the total resolution of the chip is 24MP

24MP 3:2 is approximately 6000 x 4000 (just like the Sony A6300 in 3:2 stills mode).

Then the 6K photo mode is 3:2 with full sensor readout up to 30fps burst.

The normal stills mode is a 20MP 4:3 crop of the sensor. This is why 43rumours say 20MP sensor.

The 4K video is a 16:9 crop of the sensor using the full 6K width but downsampling on the chip.

Absolutely take this is a rumour until confirmed.

But it makes total sensor to me... There is *no other way* of getting 6K photos from a 20MP 4:3 sensor like that featured on the GX8.

Yep, its the rumored multi aspect sensor from may. It has the same sensor dimensions as the previous GH2.

[Oliver Daniel]

6 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

New info

I am told they are indeed using a multi-aspect sensor.

It measures 18.9mm x 13mm in approx. 3:2 aspect ratio

20MP stills but the total resolution of the chip is 24MP

24MP 3:2 is approximately 6000 x 4000 (just like the Sony A6300 in 3:2 stills mode).

Then the 6K photo mode is 3:2 with full sensor readout up to 30fps burst.

The normal stills mode is a 20MP 4:3 crop of the sensor. This is why 43rumours say 20MP sensor.

The 4K video is a 16:9 crop of the sensor using the full 6K width but downsampling on the chip.

Absolutely take this is a rumour until confirmed.

But it makes total sense to me... There is *no other way* of getting 6K photos from a 20MP 4:3 sensor like that featured on the GX8.

 

Any idea what this means form my previous post: 

The 43 rumours website now says the 60fps feature is now "4k photo stills 60fps", what is this exactly? 

Forgive me - I'm 98% a video man and 2% stills. 

[Eno]

@Andrew Reid, the rumored 20 Mp number cold be generic. D500 also features a 20 Mp sensor that it's actually an 20,9 effective resolution.

If a multi aspect sensor is used, then with approximation:

5760 x 3240 = 18,662,400 (6K in 16/9)
5288 x 3966 = 20,972,208 (maximum used res in 4/3)
5760 x 3966 = 22,884,160 (Multi aspect res)

[Andrew Reid]

However you look at the maths, unless the sensor is letterbox shaped, the 43rumors spec of 20MP total resolution for the CMOS sensor do not allow you any kind of 6K mode, be it stills or video.

So the total resolution must be higher than 20MP, preferably in the region of 24MP.

[EspenB]

8 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

 

Any idea what this means form my previous post: 

The 43 rumours website now says the 60fps feature is now "4k photo stills 60fps", what is this exactly? 

Forgive me - I'm 98% a video man and 2% stills. 

It can take 60 pcs of 4K frames and then you can select which one captured the moment best.

[MediaMan]

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

"One possibility is that Panasonic have decided to make a multi-aspect ratio sensor, as last seen in the Panasonic GH2."

Panasonic did it as recently as the LX100 with its MFT sensor.

 

[Eno]

@Andrew Reid, agree with what you said but GH2 was also labeled as a 16 Mpix camera, when in reality the total sensor resolution was about 18 Mpix.

[theSUBVERSIVE]

40 minutes ago, EspenB said:

Yes, current 20 megapixel sensor is 27 fps at 12 ch readout.

The new sensor is 24 channels read out and multi aspect (18.9mm*13mm).

Compared to a regular 4/3rds sensor (17.3 x 13 mm) that new sensor seems to have an aspect of 1.45 (vs 1.33 for standard).

I just hope that all these feats don't come at the cost of a worse A6300-like rolling shutter. So hopefully this means that they were able to get even faster readout of this possible sensor so rolling shutter is in check.

For me, the 3 most important things to be true is the 10-bit 422 internal recording, at least 120 fps 1080p slow motion and IBIS, as long as that's there, everything else is a bonus.

I know that a lot of people is against the HEVC and if I was to buy a GH5 and it had H.265, my computer is still not optimized to HEVC and the transcoding would take longer, but hey, that's the future. H.265 will be the next standard, new CPUs and GPUs already comes natively with it, broadcast, web, new TVs, they are all for the H.265. So I wouldn't mind that, plus H.265 HEVC means that U3 cards would be able to handle the 10-bit 422 files.

I wrote all about my wishes and expectations ver the GH5 here:

https://medium.com/@theSUBVERSIVE/panasonic-gh5-is-coming-cf55597dcd8

5 minutes ago, MediaMan said:

Panasonic did it as recently as the LX100 with its MFT sensor.

Kind of.

For the LX100, it's just the usual Micro4/3 16MP with a crop, that's why it's a 12MP camera. The LX100 is not properly a Micro4/3 camera, all aspect ratios have at least 2.2x crop when compared to Micro4/3, even at 4:3 stills.

[Andrew Reid]

1 minute ago, Eno said:

@Andrew Reid, agree but GH2 was also labeled as a 16 Mpix camera, when in reality the total sensor resolution was about 18 Mpix.

Indeed because it could not output the full 18MP in any mode.

You couldn't make use of it.

But on the GH5 it can and we need to make a distinction between the actual total resolution of the sensor and what the different aspect ratio windows of that give you.