GH5 10-bit 4:2:2 internal?

[jax_rox]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

The DVX200 is a news gathering ENG style camera with documentary and faux-cinema leanings, but the main thing is that those who use it want to record for longer and need small file sizes.

That's probably why it doesn't have 10bit 4:2:2 at high bitrates.

The HVX200 was 4:2:2 (an 8 year old camera), though admittedly it was shooting to DVCPRO HD, an 8-bit codec. Realistically, an ENG camera should at least be able to record 4:2:2 internally, preferably at 10-bit (and most proper ENG cameras do).

The HVX200 was chewing up 1gb/min in DVCPRO HD at 1080. Using SD Cards (already significantly cheaper than P2, both then and now), and more efficient codecs could easily allow much better record times than the 1gb/min of the (very popular) HVX200.

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

GH4 users have spoken very loudly about wanting 10bit 4:2:2 internally and not just on the HDMI.

If Panasonic were serious about segmenting their cameras based on 8bit and 10bit, they probably wouldn't have put a 10bit output on the GH4 in the first place!

Yes, and users of Sony have spoken very loudly about colour, users of Canon have spoken very loudly about everything... Doesn't mean it makes good business sense.

When the GH4 came out, Panasonic weren't in a position to segment their camera line-up. The new Varicam was barely announced by the time the GH4 was shipping.

Now, they're in a slightly stronger position, and certainly a position where they could do so, if they were interested in releasing an AF101 successor (and they should).

[IronFilm]

7 hours ago, jax_rox said:

An even smarter play would be to have a S35 sensor that crops down to m4/3 size, so by default you can use all your m4/3 lenses seamlessly (as the APS-C mode on the A7 series), but Panasonic could then sell their own m4/3 to PL adapter, and productions using an AF 200/GH5/Varicam combo could keep their lens choice consistent.

And considering the lens mount on the VaricamLT is interchangeable, it's possible that you could sell an m4/3 mount for the LT, so you could use your m4/3 lenses on it in a crop mode, providing both a cheaper alternative to those upgrading, and also the ability to make some more cash from sales of their own lenses - considering they must have a relationship with Leica, there's no reason they couldn't do something similar to the Sony/Zeiss lenses.

Any GH series should be MFT sized otherwise piss off too many photographers etc
A mid range $7K ish to $10K ish should be S35 so can have a broad appeal.

But an FS5/C100 competitor at the up to $5K ish price point could perhaps have MFT mount and even MFT sized sensor, as can have plenty of cross over with GH and other MFT bodies in terms of its appeal and target market. 

I am a bit uncertain if a swappable mount can have MFT as an option, wouldn't MFT be too thin?? As the base mount underneath needs a certain amount of thickness itself! 

2 minutes ago, jax_rox said:

The HVX200 was 4:2:2 (an 8 year old camera), though admittedly it was shooting to DVCPRO HD, an 8-bit codec. Realistically, an ENG camera should at least be able to record 4:2:2 internally, preferably at 10-bit (and most proper ENG cameras do).

The HVX200 was chewing up 1gb/min in DVCPRO HD at 1080. Using SD Cards (already significantly cheaper than P2, both then and now), and more efficient codecs could easily allow much better record times than the 1gb/min of the (very popular) HVX200.

Ummmm.... the DVX200 that Andrew was referring to, is a different camera to the HVX200!

7 hours ago, jax_rox said:

To me that's a really strong product line-up and would serve them better than what they're doing now.

Totally agreed, Panasonic needs a camera in the midrange between mirrorless stills camera and a Varicam so people have a contious upgrade path to follow. 

This is a very very VERY powerful feature!

For evidence of this you don't need to look far, just look at the many many ***MANY*** people who went:

Canon T2i => 60D => 5Dmk2/mk3/6D => C100 => C300

A truly rediculously large LARGE number of people followed this exact upgrade path! (or similar) 
Canon must've made millions and millions from this upgrade path, which people followed as it is comfortable / easy / simple to do.
And sadly people like that, they don't want to spend dozens / hundreds of hours on forums like EOSHD to consider models from other brands, when they feel they've got a simple straightforward upgrade ahead of them already to take. 

4 hours ago, Orangenz said:

So does this mean anything to the people suggestion the GX85 and the GH5 were going to have the same sensor? If the GX85 has 2.2 crop and GH5 has 2.0 crop then doesn't that mean it has to be a different sensor?

I think that might be a reference to the next camera.... which is the G80, that will have the same sensor as the GX85.

However the GH5 is a bit further off into the future, so harder to predict its sensor. 

As for even if it does have the same sensor, will the crop be the same? Well that depends on more factors than just the sensor! It might be the sensor currently can handle it, but the processors with it can't. Thus they could upgrade the processing power but keep the old sensor, and be able to do 4K without a crop. Or the bottleneck might be the sensor itself after all.....   we don't know. 

[Jimmy]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Ummmm.... the DVX200 that Andrew was referring to, is a different camera to the HVX200!

Think his point was the ENG shooters are used to having bigger files... the EX1, a real ENG powerhouse of it's day, had 10 bit.

[jax_rox]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Any GH series should be MFT sized otherwise piss off too many photographers etc
A mid range $7K ish to $10K ish should be S35 so can have a broad appeal.

That's why you'd have a 'Varicam' branded GH5 - the one with the S35 sensor. It would be no different to a m4/3 GH5, but if you wanted to you could turn S35 mode on.

Would be a good little 'value add' considering so many adapt different lens mounts to m4/3 already. 

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

I am a bit uncertain if a swappable mount can have MFT as an option, wouldn't MFT be too thin?? As the base mount underneath needs a certain amount of thickness itself! 

Do you mean the Flange depth? It is rather narrow at 19.25mm, but Sony's FZ is 19mm - I don't know the specifics of the swappable lens mount on the VaricamLT and how it's designed, but it's not outside the realm of possibility. 

Certainly, a smart designer could have (should have) designed with the m4/3 mount in mind as a possible option, considering it's the only lens mount Panasonic make lenses for.

52 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Think his point was the ENG shooters are used to having bigger files... the EX1, a real ENG powerhouse of it's day, had 10 bit.

Exactly. ENG shooters aren't buying a DVX200 purely for marginally smaller file sizes.

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

Think his point was the ENG shooters are used to having bigger files... the EX1, a real ENG powerhouse of it's day, had 10 bit.

Nope, EX1 doesn't have 10bit internal.

18 minutes ago, jax_rox said:

That's why you'd have a 'Varicam' branded GH5 - the one with the S35 sensor. It would be no different to a m4/3 GH5, but if you wanted to you could turn S35 mode on.

It is a nice idea, and we (us low end guys) would appreciate that. But I doubt Panasonic would want to take the risk and maybe devale their brand by putting the high end "Varicam" label on a cheap stills camera. 
 

20 minutes ago, jax_rox said:

Do you mean the Flange depth? It is rather narrow at 19.25mm, but Sony's FZ is 19mm - I don't know the specifics of the swappable lens mount on the VaricamLT and how it's designed, but it's not outside the realm of possibility. 

Exactly! I very very strongly doubt 0.5mm is sufficent space to make room for an MFT adapter. 

Of course they could have a different base mount than the FZ mount underneath, but I am skeptical there is too much room underneath that is sufficient to make room for an electronic MFT mount. 

[Jimmy]

Hmm... one if the ENG cams did... Z150 maybe... think that was 4k 10bit internal

[DBounce]

I think expectations are way high of this camera.  Don't get me wrong,  I'd love this thing to have all the bells and whistles, but I just don't see it happening. Would love to be wrong on this though.  

[Rinad Amir]

28 minutes ago, DBounce said:

I think expectations are way high of this camera.  Don't get me wrong,  I'd love this thing to have all the bells and whistles, but I just don't see it happening. Would love to be wrong on this though.  

What makes you think that?

Its been two years since last series of GH was realesed

i think Panny gona surprise us not with just 10bit but more 

they always listen to community 

and people have spoken ?

10bit

lowlight improvement

IBiS

V-Log (maybe) lut preview

too much to ask after two years?

looking forward for Photokina press

[DBounce]

12 minutes ago, Rinad Amir said:

What makes you think that?

Its been two years since last series of GH was realesed

i think Panny gona surprise us not with just 10bit but more 

they always listen to community 

and people have spoken ?

10bit

lowlight improvement

IBiS

V-Log (maybe) lut preview

too much to ask after two years?

looking forward for Photokina press

The Varicam LT makes me think that.

[Rinad Amir]

6 minutes ago, DBounce said:

The Varicam LT makes me think that.

Varicam LT aint hybrid photo&video

camera that u can carry around your neck is it?

and no were not asking for that spec so this aint Canon were talking about were u must have that C badge or spend tousands for few scripts and codes

[sanveer]

Apparently the GH4 is at its Lowest price ever (though to be fair it is on eBay, has some strange 1 year Limited Warranty, and could also be a Grey Market Export). 

http://www.43rumors.com/record-low-959-price-panasonic-gh4/

 

Does it mean the GH5 is Not too Far away?

Also, does it also indicate that the improvements on the GH5 will be Seriously Radical?

What do you guys think?

[VIKTORVISUAL]

Just wanted to see how side by side it would look Fujifilm vs Canon can we see true 4K vs 1080 that companies try to sell us in 2016 and I think yes I can see the difference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlm6n9tgomA Love Lindsay Adler from Creativelive just don't like how unsharp they made video from her photography shoot.

[jax_rox]

9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

It is a nice idea, and we (us low end guys) would appreciate that. But I doubt Panasonic would want to take the risk and maybe devale their brand by putting the high end "Varicam" label on a cheap stills camera. 
 

Exactly! I very very strongly doubt 0.5mm is sufficent space to make room for an MFT adapter. 

Of course they could have a different base mount than the FZ mount underneath, but I am skeptical there is too much room underneath that is sufficient to make room for an electronic MFT mount. 

Varicam would be just like Sony's 'CineAlta' branding. It's not devaluing their high-end brand - those who are buying (or hiring) at that level are not swayed by brand names - in fact, branding a popular camera like the GH5 as 'Varicam' could push brand and product recognition of their higher-end Varicam models. 

Even if you said that 'Varicam' branded models have the superior 'Varicam' colour depth or something like that.

in terms of an MFT mount, it still could be possible - even if they brought out a seperate MFT body

[Primrose Valentino]

I'd like to see a "pro" version of this camera.  Or another camera in the 3-$4,000 range.  I think Panasonic can knock it out the park and Blackmagic will be in a heap of trouble.  If they could just add a CFast 2.0 slot, 10 bit 422 and give us high frame rates at 4K I'd be in heaven.

[IronFilm]

6 hours ago, jax_rox said:

Varicam would be just like Sony's 'CineAlta' branding. It's not devaluing their high-end brand - those who are buying (or hiring) at that level are not swayed by brand names - in fact, branding a popular camera like the GH5 as 'Varicam' could push brand and product recognition of their higher-end Varicam models. 

Even if you said that 'Varicam' branded models have the superior 'Varicam' colour depth or something like that.

in terms of an MFT mount, it still could be possible - even if they brought out a seperate MFT body

But none, not even one, or the mirrorless Sony cameras have the "CineAlta" badge.

[jax_rox]

49 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

But none, not even one, or the mirrorless Sony cameras have the "CineAlta" badge.

That doesn't mean Panasonic can't/couldn't do it.

It's all a branding gimmick - why not make it work for you?

[IronFilm]

It *could* be done, I'm just pointing out reasons why I personally feel that is unlikely. 

[tweak]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

It *could* be done, I'm just pointing out reasons why I personally feel that is unlikely. 

I agree.

[MattH]

9 hours ago, Primrose Valentino said:

I'd like to see a "pro" version of this camera.  Or another camera in the 3-$4,000 range.  I think Panasonic can knock it out the park and Blackmagic will be in a heap of trouble.  If they could just add a CFast 2.0 slot, 10 bit 422 and give us high frame rates at 4K I'd be in heaven.

Why? Why would you not want it all in the GH5 for GH money?

[Primrose Valentino]

10 hours ago, MattH said:

Why? Why would you not want it all in the GH5 for GH money?

I'm just trying to be realistic.  I think the jump in price would get us far more features that what I've stated.  RAW maybe, pro form factor, etc.