GH5 10-bit 4:2:2 internal?

[deezid]

On 29.9.2016 at 11:07 PM, photographer-at-large said:

I'm very interested in GloH5, but am not familiar with Panasonic look.  Please post some links to best looking output from GH4.  Thanks in advance.

Internal 8Bit, 4K DCI, V-LOG.

5 minutes ago, sanveer said:

Hopefully Panasonic has a usable ISO 3200 noise sensor.

For Black Joker above, some of the shots were done at ISO4000.

[Cinegain]

1 hour ago, sanveer said:

They should have an SD card Slot for Both the SD UH-I and UHS-II Standard,  cause the UHS-II has a 280 MB card by SanDisk already. also, the 2nd slow should be an XQD standard card. thode are doing between 400 and 500MB right now, and could easily do much higher rates very soon. [..]

'Bout that... https://www.sandisk.com/home/memory-cards/sd-cards/extremepro-sd-uhs-ii

Quote

power to capture uninterrupted, cinema-quality 4K, 3D, and Full HD video at a minimum sustained write speed of 30MB/s

So indeed what Don was saying about them new video standards: https://www.sdcard.org/press/thoughtleadership/160301SD_March_Thought_Leadership_FINAL_video_speed_class.html . Would be good to see those kind of cards hitting the market! And more dual-slot cameras, with indeed new media format support like UHS-II.

Funny to look back at earlier post speculating about/suggesting things for the GH4 successor...

Quote

I hope they can do internal 10-bit ProRes.  Bunch of other stuff would be cool to implement, like in-body stabilization.

[..]

If you'd ask me to design the greatest camera to date with tech that's out now, it would probably have the Olympus E-M1 overall look and feel, with the grip, dual dials and everything; in-body stabilization too. Would probably have to be A7-series sized in order to fit all the things I want on it, haha. Then we can take something similar to the E-M5II vari-angle touchscreen and throw it on there. From the GH4 the WB/ISO/+/- buttons and battery life. Fujifilm XT-1 or Leica SL EVF. From Leica SL as well the OLED top LCD tech. Gotta have mic-in, headphone-out, fullsized HDMI port, dual memory slots. Sony's FS5 built-in electronic variable ND-solution and their E-mount. 20~24MP APS-C sensor. NX1's chip infrastructure for insane readouts and no overheating. Blackmagic internal ProRes/DNG RAW. Maybe a battery grip with some kind of mSata Speeddrive storage solution built-in when shooting 4.6K with it.

I think the E-M1 Mark II is pretty sweet though, but Panasonic could kill it. I was thinking about that battery grip solution for storing stuff on a more sizeable and faster medium. Could be cool. Hope they'll have more info out soon!

[jonpais]

I went to a Lumix station in Penang this morning and a salesman told me Panasonic Malaysia is estimating a $2,300 price tag for the GH5 here, unless the Malaysian ringgit rebounds. I guess it is at a historic low at the moment. I believe this is the first time I've heard a figure from a Panasonic representative. 

[Hanriverprod]

http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-more-gh5-pricing-info/#disqus_thread

Body only: Price will be between 1 800 € and 2 000 € in Europe for the DMC-GH5.
Price will be ± 2 900 € for the DMC-GH5 + the new Panasonic Leica 12-60 Lens (not the older 12-60mm lens!)

In Korea that's around the price of a a7r ii or a7s ii. Kind of crazy.

[jonpais]

I guess I didn't see that post, thanks Hanriverprod. I know I overpaid for my GH4, but that's around how much it cost me almost 3 years ago. It was either that, or fly to another country and pick one up for less, which would have amounted to about the same thing.

[hijodeibn]

3 hours ago, Hanriverprod said:

http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-more-gh5-pricing-info/#disqus_thread

Body only: Price will be between 1 800 € and 2 000 € in Europe for the DMC-GH5.
Price will be ± 2 900 € for the DMC-GH5 + the new Panasonic Leica 12-60 Lens (not the older 12-60mm lens!)

In Korea that's around the price of a a7r ii or a7s ii. Kind of crazy.

This is crazy like hell, no way I am going to pay that money for a M4/3 camera......thanks for this update, I needed to make a final choice.....CANON HERE I GO AGAIN!!!!

[HelsinkiZim]

Hey, has anyone here actually flown to another country to get a camera and take a free vacation? Some of the US/ EU price differences are the price of a transatlantic flight...

[hijodeibn]

9 minutes ago, HelsinkiZim said:

Hey, has anyone here actually flown to another country to get a camera and take a free vacation? Some of the US/ EU price differences are the price of a transatlantic flight...

At the end the free vacation are more expensive, the ideal is to find a friend who is going to US a can bring you a camera from there, but I think the US price for the GH5 is going to be US2,000+ anyway in the states, so screw up Panasonic, for that price a better option is the XC15, and the camera depreciation is far away the less in the market, you can easily get more than 2/3 of the investment in any Canon camera after a year using it for any project....

[Cinegain]

I once went to Stockholm in person to pick up the Panasonic G7 and saved me 230 or so bucks (had to be there anyways, but still, http://www.prisjakt.nu proved helpful). I ordered the G80 from UK and for EU body prices got included the 12-60mm, a Panasonic 64GB card and a battery grip. It does help to look around. Usually I check http://geizhals.eu . I find it very helpful to get some oversight.

That said... 1999 for either E-M1 Mark II or GH5 is a matter of perspective. So here's mine...

• No DSLR for me. I don't like mirrors and I don't like optical viewfinder. I'd rather just have an EVF and excellent liveview; what you see is what you get. Plus, mirrorless cameras just about standard give you peaking, zebras and all that good stuff
• No fullframe camera for me. What fullframe cameras would there be? Let's see... eh... Sony. Well have you seen what those bodies retail for? And then you need big bulky 35mm covering glass that ain't cheap either. Don't know. Just not for me
• S35/APS-C. Now we're talking. Excellent. Yes, I'll have one, thank you! What can I choose from again? Ah, more Sony. Well... they sound good on paper, but in practice... between the overheating, rolling shutter, color issues, poor design and its price... there's not really that much that makes it an attractive choice. I think I'll pass until they come up with something a little more reliable and enjoyable. Fujifilm XT-2. Ooh, me likey. Too bad there's no sensor stabilization, vari-angle touchscreen and headphone-jack on the camera body. Tough. Canon? The new EOS-M5... overpriced stripped down 80D much? Maybe cool as a gimbal AF tool, otherwise nope. Nikon? Not making anything. Samsung? Dead; although the NX1 is pretty sweet. But you know... the XT-2 would pull ahead of it. Well... that's kinda that. Unless you want to go proper cinema style camera and throw a couple of thousand bucks at it, but at the cost of losing a innocent looking versatile hybrid system that packs a punch
• That leaves... drumroll please! Micro Four Thirds, MFT, M43, M4/3. Now... I kinda made my peace with the 4/3" sensor a long time ago. Hell, some even accepted the limited conditions the BMPCC would shine in. S16. And as such I don't need ISO12800. I mean, ISO1600-6400 would be kinda nice. Don't really like to go beyond ISO1250 right now due to the decrease in peformance. But somehow, you just make it work. You work around the sensitivity by lighting, by using more sensitive lenses. You work around the crop. The shallow depth of field. With a smaller sensor you kinda lose some color accuracy, dynamic range... I mean, it's not like you're not paying for it somehow, but you manage. In return you get to have one of the most versatile systems out there. With small bodies and small pancake primes. But you can also rig things up and use speedboosters. And especially with the features in the new E-M1 Mark II (which I feel they should've just called a E-M1 Pro/E-M Pro to avoid the negative backslash it being so much more expensive than its predecessor), you now have one of the most complete cameras on the market out there. Compared to a mirrorless APS-C Sony... it has a far better choice concerning lenses native to the system and sensor format, it has that vari-angle screen, dual cardslot, superior sensor stabilization, neglectable rolling shutter... and most importantly... it's reliable. Compared to either XT-2 or NX1 it has the vari-angle touchscreen (frontfacing option) and 5-axis sensor stabilization. You just can't really fault the E-M1 Mark II on hardware level. The GH5... we don't know much yet, but it looks like we're going to keep that GH4-styling. That's good and bad, because I was actually hoping that with the GH5 they would really re-think what they wanted the top of the line GH-camera to be for general video production, as well as more advanced cinematic application. So I was thinking a different style body, more room, better interface, more ports, bigger ports and all that good stuff. Still though, even with a GH4-style body and souped up internals, this could be something very different. We already kinda know that its sensor and processing allows for internal 4K at 60/50p and 4:2:2 10-bit at 30/25/24p. There's 6K Photo. If the E-M1 Mark II's processing and speed is any indication of what the GH5 might be like, we're really getting some performance. And people who've been using the GH4 as a production tool, will gladly embrace the improvements in noise control and overal image quality that has already gotten a boost with the arrival of the G7, GX80 and G80. Not to mention the probable inclusion of sensor stabilization. Rolling shutter could be neglegible as well. Super slowmo. Who knows? Ultimately though, this is a tool not to be underestimated and of great value to independent and indie filmmakers, production houses and the sorts.

Would I say 1999 is pricey? Yes, most definitely is. But I think the E-M1 Mark II makes sense. There's all this Olympus PRO glass and these people need a camera to go with it. It's not some incremental upgrade, it's a new game altogether and offers things in a complete package we haven't seen yet before. To those who think it's not worth it, they have a great selection of alternatives... the E-M1 with firmware upgrade is pretty solid, E-M5 Mark II, E-M10 Mark II... Panasonic G80. Talking about that last one, that is a fine camera for people looking for a serious hybrid camera that don't neccessarily be using the more pro applications such as V-LOG L. Pay less, only use what you need. The GH5 on the other hand is the ultimate video production tool, by the looks of it. Either used stand alone or rigged up, if it sells for 1999 it will provide shooters with a the most complete video package under 2000 bucks yet. If they would tell me 'we have a promo going on, one time offer... we see you have the GH5 in your basket, we'll change that to a URSA Mini 4K (that you're not allowed to sell) but leave the 1999 price. Which camera should we ship to you?'. I'd probably go with the GH5. I just really like the idea of a camera that I could use with a 20mm f/1.7 pancake lens and at the same time could rig up to be a set-up too legit to quit. But that's just me. You also got to consider that because of the pro features, less people will have use for it... and in turn therefor they sell less units and need to increase prices. As has been said before, we're just a marginal piece of the pie... the people that care a lot about shooting video with stills cameras, so when they cater to us, I'm really excited. And currently I see the E-M1 Mark II and the GH5 as the most complete packages out there for hybrid shooting with a video edge. There's always things that can be improved, but that's going to remain to be the case.

[Mat Mayer]

I guess now that HDR has been announced as the next standard, but we don't know the exact specs yet, that will affect some people's decision with the GH5. If it ticks the HDR boxes I will buy it without a moments hesitation because I believe in Panasonic as a brand now.

[webrunner5]

On 11/21/2016 at 2:15 PM, Cinegain said:

Would I say 1999 is pricey? Yes, most definitely is. But I think the E-M1 Mark II makes sense. There's all this Olympus PRO glass and these people need a camera to go with it. It's not some incremental upgrade, it's a new game altogether and offers things in a complete package we haven't seen yet before. To those who think it's not worth it, they have a great selection of alternatives... the E-M1 with firmware upgrade is pretty solid, E-M5 Mark II, E-M10 Mark II... Panasonic G80. Talking about that last one, that is a fine camera for people looking for a serious hybrid camera that don't necessarily be using the more pro applications such as V-LOG L. Pay less, only use what you need. The GH5 on the other hand is the ultimate video production tool, by the looks of it. Either used stand alone or rigged up, if it sells for 1999 it will provide shooters with a the most complete video package under 2000 bucks yet. If they would tell me 'we have a promo going on, one time offer... we see you have the GH5 in your basket, we'll change that to a URSA Mini 4K (that you're not allowed to sell) but leave the 1999 price. Which camera should we ship to you?'. I'd probably go with the GH5. I just really like the idea of a camera that I could use with a 20mm f/1.7 pancake lens and at the same time could rig up to be a set-up too legit to quit. But that's just me. You also got to consider that because of the pro features, less people will have use for it... and in turn therefor they sell less units and need to increase prices. As has been said before, we're just a marginal piece of the pie... the people that care a lot about shooting video with stills cameras, so when they cater to us, I'm really excited. And currently I see the E-M1 Mark II and the GH5 as the most complete packages out there for hybrid shooting with a video edge. There's always things that can be improved, but that's going to remain to be the case.

Yeah but with the Ursa Mini you don't have to spend a fortune on rigging it up. Plus you can go up to the 4.6 chip if you want. If the GH5 is 2,300ish I am going BM route.

[anchoricex]

On November 21, 2016 at 11:57 AM, Mat Mayer said:

I guess now that HDR has been announced as the next standard, but we don't know the exact specs yet, that will affect some people's decision with the GH5. If it ticks the HDR boxes I will buy it without a moments hesitation because I believe in Panasonic as a brand now.

I've completely tuned out of camera releases for years now, what's this HDR standard you speak of? 

 

Unrelated: With the GH5 doing all the 10 bit and 4k stuff internally, this should save money on monitors because we don't need one that records now, right? Can anyone suggest a good monitor? Also did the GH4 do anamorphic desqueeze preview? And if it did was that output-able to a monitor? Would like to pick up a GH5 when it's released and do anamorphic stuff, but would like a monitor to go with it, not sure what exactly is out there and not sure if I need one that has a desqueeze function on the monitor.

 

Cheers for any answers.

[Cinegain]

13 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah but with the Ursa Mini you don't have to spend a fortune on rigging it up. Plus you can go up to the 4.6 chip if you want. If the GH5 is 2,300ish I am going BM route.

Well, the URSA Mini you'd probably equip with the BMD viewfinder and shoulder kit, so you're easily spending twice to really get it up to functional wishes, whereas with the GH5 you might be there with another 500 bucks, although, if you're upgrading from the GH4, chances are you probably have all them extra things that are compatible already. Can't really go and blend in very well in a crowd with the URSA Mini either, it's not that mini, so not really the harmless touristy vibe walking around with one of those. Everything's a matter of perspective, like I said, that's just mine.

9 hours ago, anchoricex said:

I've completely tuned out of camera releases for years now, what's this HDR standard you speak of?

[..]

Well, in short:

 

One thing that pushes Sony and Panasonic with cameras like these is to give people content for the (4K, now HDR) tv's they're trying to sell. Follow the discussion:

Quote

Unrelated: With the GH5 doing all the 10 bit and 4k stuff internally, this should save money on monitors because we don't need one that records now, right? Can anyone suggest a good monitor? Also did the GH4 do anamorphic desqueeze preview? And if it did was that output-able to a monitor? Would like to pick up a GH5 when it's released and do anamorphic stuff, but would like a monitor to go with it, not sure what exactly is out there and not sure if I need one that has a desqueeze function on the monitor.

 

Cheers for any answers.

It does either 4K60p (implied 8-bit) internally, or internal 4K30p but at 10-bit 4:2:2. I could imagine them opening up some extra external push-through... like 4K60p 10-bit and maybe even somehow RAW output... but everything is speculative at this point. But yes, it seems it has become way more useful for internal recording. But yeah, a bigger or off-camera located (rig/gimbal) screen can of course prove very useful. SmallHD make some brilliant little monitors. Of course there's Atomos, Convergent Design Odyssey and Videodevices too that do include more advanced features as pro recorders and monitors, some including anamorphic de-squeeze and LUT preview support, stuff you wouldn't get with your Aputure VS-5 or Lilliput Q5. The GH4 wasn't able to de-squeeze in-camera, according Matt Frazer in the following video because the camera wasn't initially intended to do so. That's why I'm pumped to see what the GH5 can do, because it is from the ground up developped for these kinds of applications now, whereas the features on the GH4, including V-LOG L were more like bonus experimental features. I think you could pick to either push it through HDMI already de-squeezed for monitoring or deliver it untouched to let your monitor/recorder de-squeeze/record the 'pure' signal.

Especially check from 33:30:

 

[webrunner5]

Yeah but I am 69 years old, and grew up in a way, with ENG cameras.  So for me the size of a Ursa Mini is small! And I weigh 235 pounds, and a GH4 is sort of too small. So I guess the Ursa Mini is sort of like Goldilocks, just right for my size.

If I had the money I would have all of them, but I need to make my gear pay it's way, so I want to go for a all a rounder. Having Raw is not the worse thing with owning a BM product if you are willing to up the ante on hard drives. They have become pretty cheap as of late. Now if you shoot 10 hour content a day well you are going with a GH4 Codec.  I tend to shot 1 to 2 hour segments at a time, so I can back up, even delete some stuff if I need a second take. I would run a Red if I could afford it. You can choose what raw compression you need per assignment. A really big plus for using them at the moment. But they just kill you on Propitiatory stuff they sell you. The Camera I can afford, the other stuff no LoL.             

[fuzzynormal]

49 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

grew up in a way, with ENG cameras.

I admit, even after all these years, it still feels odd to me to not have a 15 pound piece of gear on my shoulder during a shoot.  (not to mention the 3/4" "portable" recorder) Started with 79a's Ikagami Tube cameras myself.  You? 

[Stanley]

When I was a Stagehand/camera assistant, we had to carry Ikagamis around golf courses for cameramen for 3-4 days at a time, (couldn't get into floor managing quick enough)... I'm actually getting a sore back remembering them !! 

[webrunner5]

12 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

I admit, even after all these years, it still feels odd to me to not have a 15 pound piece of gear on my shoulder during a shoot.  (not to mention the 3/4" "portable" recorder) Started with 79a's Ikagami Tube cameras myself.  You? 

I think anyone that is older has had some experience with the 79a' threw 79e' series Ikagami's and portable recorders. They were the thing to have until the I started using a Sony BVP-5 3CCD BetaCam Head with BVV-1A BetaCam VTR. All 550 lines of resolution! I think that thing with the big battery on it weighed like 22 pounds!! But they were pretty good at holding them steady at that weight. You had to warm up the camera for an hour or more before you could even use them to be calibrated. Man it produced a beautiful picture at the time though. The tape decks we had at the time weighed nearly 50 pounds each in the studio.

We had one reporter that used to stutter at times when he got too excited, so we had to do a lot more re-takes with him. God I hated that holding that camera for what seemed like half an hour straight LoL. And he was good at running after people to get more dialog from them. That was a LOT of fun!! Wow good thing I was young, 30ish at the time. I think I have one arm longer and one leg shorter than the other because of all of that for years LoL.

Wow those were the days. Man the money the stations spent was mind boggling at the the time to upgrade to that stuff. I have no clue how they could really afford it. It had to be like a  3 Million or more dollars easy. Heck each camera was over a 100k each. Studio cameras with the box Lenses were like 250k or more with the remote controls and the pedestals. And I have NO clue what the switchers cost then! Probably 250k each also. And the mobile trucks, Jesus if you had to ask, you could not afford it. Easy Million dollars each one.

But the money like NBC spent in those days to cover the Olympics had to be mind boggling. It had to be a Billion dollars or more easy! NFL football was just as bad. Heck a Red camera seems cheap this day and age! Not!

[Orangenz]

Just noticed that Magix added "10-bit HEVC support Movie Edit Pro now supports import of 10-Bit HEVC recordings from modern camcorders."

What modern camcorders might that be mmmm?