Ursa mini...is this the end of blackmagic?

[John Brawley]

2 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

By cherrypicking examples. Get over it, some software/hardware will not work on older operating systems. This is a fact of the industry.

Or in this case, it's not that it won't work, it's just not supported.

JB

[Simon Shasha]

12 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

By cherrypicking examples. Get over it, some software/hardware will not work on older operating systems. This is a fact of the industry.

And you're merely cherry-picking from my post. Read my whole post. I was stressing that speed and performance has more to do with hardware, and drivers written for said hardware, than with the OS. Even if I were to compare Windows 7 64bit to Windows 10 64bit, there is essentially no difference - they are both based on the hybrid Windows NT kernel (albeit with the added ability of addressing the x86-64 instruction set). I have been building very high-performance PC's, for myself and many others, for two decades now - from my experience, I find Windows 7 64bit to be far more stable and less taxing on memory.

Further, your understanding of the "industry" is incorrect - Windows 7 is, and will remain for some time, the most popular version of Windows in the world. The "industry" you mention isn't stupid - they are not going to drop support for the world's most popular and used OS, believe me. In fact, Windows 7 was so popular, and remains popular, that Microsoft had to forcibly end OEM distribution recently because people were still asking for it over Windows 10.

Regardless, Windows 7 64bit will be supported until 2020 with updates and service packs. - whether you want to believe me or not, I don't mind, but at their core, Windows 7 and 10 are essentially the same thing - they are both based on Windows NT and employ the hybrid NT kernel - minus a few GUI changes and features (such as Cortana), which digital artists don't really need at all.

Ultimately, when it comes to NLE's, and thanks to stream processing, graphics drivers from Nvidia and AMD/ATI, and the higher-bandwidth RAM they employ, are far more important than what OS they are running on.

[cantsin]

@Simon, everything you write is correct, but nevertheless offtopic in this thread. Blackmagic's cameras and software only support Windows 8.1 and higher, period. If you want to use Windows 7, don't use them.

[Simon Shasha]

1 hour ago, cantsin said:

@Simon, everything you write is correct, but nevertheless offtopic in this thread. Blackmagic's cameras and software only support Windows 8.1 and higher, period. If you want to use Windows 7, don't use them.

Don't use them? Well, I guess it's strange that I created an official video for Blackmagic with a Windows 7 system...

I think, for the sake of absolute clarification, we need an official statement from Blackmagic on what operating-system Resolve, and Camera Utility, can run on, and if they're willing, for us self-professed system-building geeks, to explain why it cannot run on Windows 7. For the record, I have the latest Resolve (12.5.3) and Camera Utility (4.0) running perfectly on Windows 7 64bit - despite the "minimum system requirements" stating that one requires "Windows 8.1 Pro 64 bit".

Also, as I stated in my previous post, Windows 7 is by far the most widely used Windows OS - beating Windows 10 nearly 2:1, and Windows 8/8.1 by 5:1. Dropping support for Windows 7 64bit is not an intelligent move - and if anything, Blackmagic has intelligence in spades. 

From my knowledge, the base kernel of Windows 7, 8, and 10, is Windows NT, and should be able to execute, install and understand both Resolve and Camera Utility no problem.

When I was building systems and Windows 8 came out, being a closed-source OS, I, and my fellow system builders, couldn't really tear apart the OS and look at the kernel changes, however, after trialing Windows 7 against Windows 8 with a handful of system builds I did, it seemed the only raw, real-world difference I could see were that boot times seemed quicker on 8 (I'm talking a handful of seconds here, 5 to 10 seconds - at most). If I were to guess, I'd say this probably has to do with the low-level system-state - it seems Windows 8 doesn't do a cold-boot like Windows 7 does - it seems to hibernate rather than absolutely clear all cache/RAM/virtual memory. However, I am not as versed in low-level software as I am in hardware, so I may be wrong.

Anyway, I hope we get official clarification on Resolve/Camera Utility regarding Windows 7 64bit

[cantsin]

Just look here: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support

...then select the respective software package (Resolve, Camera Utility), click on the "Read More" link and scroll down to "minimum system requirements". 

We could have spared us the whole discussion here.... (It says Windows 8.1 64bit or higher, as I had written here several times.)

[Simon Shasha]

9 minutes ago, cantsin said:

Just look here: https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/support

...then select the respective software package (Resolve, Camera Utility), click on the "Read More" link and scroll down to "minimum system requirements". 

We could have spared us the whole discussion here.... (It says Windows 8.1 64bit or higher, as I had written here several times.)

Mate, I am well aware that it states that. I wrote it in my post.

But as I also stated, it's somewhat illogical not to support Windows 7 64bit (for the many reasons I stated).

I simply want a more detailed clarification from, say, a software engineer at Blackmagic, as to why Windows 7 64bit is not, officially, supported.

[andrgl]

5 minutes ago, Simon Shasha said:

Mate, I am well aware that it states that. I wrote it in my post.

But as I also stated, it's somewhat illogical not to support Windows 7 64bit (for the many reasons I stated).

I simply want a more detailed clarification from, say, a software engineer at Blackmagic, as to why Windows 7 64bit is not, officially, supported.

Then why are you posting here? This isn't the blackmagicdesign website.

You can even call them up:

• US: 1 408 954 0500

• United Kingdom: 441 565 830 049

• Japan: 81 3 5295 5661

• Singapore: 65 6339 2171

• China: 86 134 5022 0935

[Simon Shasha]

6 minutes ago, andrgl said:

Then why are you posting here? This isn't the blackmagicdesign website.

You can even call them up:

• US: 1 408 954 0500

• United Kingdom: 441 565 830 049

• Japan: 81 3 5295 5661

• Singapore: 65 6339 2171

• China: 86 134 5022 0935

 

Wow. Again, I am reminded why I stay off forums most of the time...guess I'll take my leave from here indefinitely, then.

[mercer]

8 minutes ago, Simon Shasha said:

 

Wow. Again, I am reminded why I stay off forums most of the time...guess I'll take my leave from here indefinitely, then.

Did you make that early boxing video with the BMMCC?

[Simon Shasha]

8 minutes ago, mercer said:

Did you make that early boxing video with the BMMCC?

Hi Mercer,

Yes, I did.

[mercer]

Just now, Simon Shasha said:

Hi Mercer,

Yes, I did.

Great video, I know that was one of the reasons I ended up buying one. Ultimately, I didn't like the form factor, but I know there was a lengthy discussion and praise of that video in the early days of the BMMCC's release.

With that being said, I would definitely contact them if I were you. I read it to mean that they are not saying it won't work, just that they are not going out of their way to continue to specifically make it work. Maybe your argument could convince them.

Btw, slightly off topic, but I hate that there is this defensive, almost attack behavior with BM loyalists when someone questions anything about the company or their products. 

[Simon Shasha]

27 minutes ago, mercer said:

Great video, I know that was one of the reasons I ended up buying one. Ultimately, I didn't like the form factor, but I know there was a lengthy discussion and praise of that video in the early days of the BMMCC's release.

With that being said, I would definitely contact them if I were you. I read it to mean that they are not saying it won't work, just that they are not going out of their way to continue to specifically make it work. Maybe your argument could convince them.

Btw, slightly off topic, but I hate that there is this defensive, almost attack behavior with BM loyalists when someone questions anything about the company or their products. 

Thanks, appreciate the kind words

Yeah, the form-factor can be cumbersome. I use the Micro for filmmaking, live-event work, and anything that requires 50/60P, and take my Pocket whenever I leave the house and just want to have some fun. I'd say the Pocket is my favourite camera of all time, actually. Sony Australia is providing me with an A6500 soon, however, I can see myself reaching for my Pocket Camera as my "daily driver" for a long time coming. I'll tell you what's good fun - that little Panasonic GX85. I used it the other day with a Panasonic 20mm F1.7 - really great. Definitely a camera that doesn't put hurdles in the way of content.

Regarding brand allegiance, I have never understood it, to be honest, and in my defense, and though it may have appeared to some this way, I wasn't attacking Blackmagic - merely trying to gauge why Windows 7 64bit hasn't been included in the requirements list, and why I find that very illogical - and also trying to dispel the myth that the latest Resolve and Camera Ulitity do not work on Windows 7 64bit.

[mercer]

10 minutes ago, Simon Shasha said:

Thanks, appreciate the kind words

Yeah, the form-factor can be cumbersome. I use the Micro for filmmaking, live-event work, and anything that requires 50/60P, and take my Pocket whenever I leave the house and just want to have some fun. I'd say the Pocket is my favourite camera of all time, actually. Sony Australia is providing me with an A6500 soon, however, I can see myself reaching for my Pocket Camera as my "daily driver" for a long time coming. I'll tell you what's good fun - that little Panasonic GX85. I used it the other day with a Panasonic 20mm F1.7 - really great. Definitely a camera that doesn't put hurdles in the way of content.

Regarding brand allegiance, I have never understood it, to be honest, and in my defense, and though it may have appeared to some this way, I wasn't attacking Blackmagic - merely trying to gauge why Windows 7 64bit hasn't been included in the requirements list, and why I find that very illogical - and also trying to dispel the myth that the latest Resolve and Camera Ulitity do not work on Windows 7 64bit.

Yeah, I had the Pocket and the 12-35mm f2.8 Panny. It was a cool combo being able to go handheld, but for the money, I decided to return it. I wanted a rig less handheld camera and it fit the criteria, but my copy of the Pocket got so hot it was almost too hot to the touch. If I was a better colorist, or if the pocket was 500 bucks still, I may have kept it but for the money, I decided to go another route. 

Haha, I actually have the GX85 as well and that is a cool cam, but I am selling that too. 

I'm all over the place with cameras...

[John Brawley]

2 hours ago, mercer said:

 

Btw, slightly off topic, but I hate that there is this defensive, almost attack behavior with BM loyalists when someone questions anything about the company or their products. 

I hate that there is this rush to call anyone a BM loyalist when all you're doing is pointing out that what they claim actually isn't true.

To whit....Windows 7 corrupts clips on an Ursa Mini with V4.0 software.

Windows anything has nothing to do with the firmware in the camera being able to record files or indeed corrupt them. 

In this case, the files WERE NOT corrupted.  It's this kind of idiotic misinformation that is irksome to me.  Calling it out and being wrong seems to get you labeled a BM loyalist.  

What does that make the guy making the claim that it corrupts the files ?

JB

 

[mercer]

13 minutes ago, John Brawley said:

I hate that there is this rush to call anyone a BM loyalist when all you're doing is pointing out that what they claim actually isn't true.

To whit....Windows 7 corrupts clips on an Ursa Mini with V4.0 software.

Windows anything has nothing to do with the firmware in the camera being able to record files or indeed corrupt them. 

In this case, the files WERE NOT corrupted.  It's this kind of idiotic misinformation that is irksome to me.  Calling it out and being wrong seems to get you labeled a BM loyalist.  

What does that make the guy making the claim that it corrupts the files ?

JB

 

I wasn't actually talking about you or even this specific incident but your reply coincidentally proved my point. 

[IronFilm]

On 11/5/2016 at 9:06 AM, Simon Shasha said:

Regarding brand allegiance, I have never understood it, to be honest, and in my defense, and though it may have appeared to some this way, I wasn't attacking Blackmagic - merely trying to gauge why Windows 7 64bit hasn't been included in the requirements list, and why I find that very illogical - and also trying to dispel the myth that the latest Resolve and Camera Ulitity do not work on Windows 7 64bit.

The reason why it is not included could just be as simple as a) it is an old OS & b) BMD is a very small company and doing testing for every possible software/hardware combo takes time and is expensive

[Tim Sewell]

On 11/5/2016 at 7:35 PM, Simon Shasha said:

Hi Mercer,

Yes, I did.

That was a great bit of work!

[Simon Shasha]

12 hours ago, Tim Sewell said:

That was a great bit of work!

Thanks, Tim

[dhessel]

All of this is just par for the course with BM. Probably true with any company just getting started with camera manufacturing, in all fairness. As someone who used to openly support them, the end for black magic for me was when I saw how they have treated their Ursa customers.