C700 and XC15 announcement

[IronFilm]

This is at best a "me too camera" from Canon, that is late to the party.

I think we'll see hefty discounts for the C700 in a year-ish, just like with the C300mk2 (which also was too little and too late by Canon).

[mercer]

28 minutes ago, Thpriest said:

Thanks Mercer! Do you have the GX85 and the XC10?

So are the low light and AF the same as or better than the XC10 with the latest firmware? Those are the big questions for me at least.

Yeah, I have both. They are both awesome cams for different reasons. Specifically the 5-Axis, but the canon only has it in 1080, but I think their 1080 is almost as good as the gx85s 4K downscaled to 1080p... By my eye anyway. 

I just bought the xc10 about a month ago and mine came with the updated firmware, so I can't say if it's any better than the original firmware but most accounts I have read says it is. The face tracking works great though. It's not great in low light, but what AF is? I've never used DPAF... So maybe that is great in lowlight?

[Thpriest]

Thanks again Mercer! How do the cameras compare in lowlight? I have several fast lenses for the GX85 but I don't really like the images when I go over 1600iso and they don't seem to enjoy being corrected to much. I was wondering if the XC10 works better in lowlight (when wide open at 2.8) at 3200iso or more. Maybe the files give you more scope for correcting the images?

[mercer]

3 minutes ago, Thpriest said:

Thanks again Mercer! How do the cameras compare in lowlight? I have several fast lenses for the GX85 but I don't really like the images when I go over 1600iso and they don't seem to enjoy being corrected to much. I was wondering if the XC10 works better in lowlight (when wide open at 2.8) at 3200iso or more. Mare the files give you more scope for correcting the images?

I mean, I guess you could put a fast lens on the gx85 and it will help. I just shot a micro short the other day on the XC10 and I shot wide dr up to 1600 and it was clean. At 3200 I noticed a little noise creeping in but nothing I couldn't work with if I had to. I would still in most instances try to keep everything at 1600 or below. 

[Shield3]

6 hours ago, Hanriverprod said:

XC15 with canon log but not log2 or 3, xlr input and waveform now.

 

 

If I see ONE MORE Canon marketing piece mention you can grab 8MP stills from 4k my head is going to explode.  Yeah no shit - that can be done in post with any 4k camera.  It's just a freaking JPG (not raw)...Sigh.

[Oliver Daniel]

Well, looks good for big budget stuff. 

I know for sure I won't be renting this, as the camera is like a bazooka with all the bells and whistles. It's like the Titanic with the Codex recorder. 

Meanwhile, there's a Kinefinity Terra around the corner which is a fraction of the cost and is the size of your hand. 

[homestar_kevin]

The c500 is now 6995 at b&h 

Did that discount just happen today or have I been asleep.

That seems like a great deal

[j.f.r.]

5 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Yea... the market was flooded with 4K 60p 15 stop DR low light DPAF great skintone cams back then!!

I will never ever own a c700 as the size doesn't suit my style, so won't lose any sleep about this launch. But it seems a nice camera.... unless you are thinking about a $30k camera and we're somehow banking on the c700 to shoot your masterpiece... why get worked up?

RED EPIC is a much better camera released YEARS ago and I mean YEARS........

Please log off of the internet.........  I seriously ask myself why I even visit this site as more than 90% of the people here have no idea what they are talking about.....

 

 

Also regarding the $30k price I would rig up 3 URSA MINi 4.6K and accomplish any and everything I wanted too..... So like I said, Canon is a JOKE!

[Liam]

1 hour ago, j.f.r. said:

I seriously ask myself why I even visit this site as more than 90% of the people here have no idea what they are talking about

We will never bow to you, J'f'r!

[Jimmy]

1 hour ago, j.f.r. said:

Please log off of the internet.........  

I think I might have to.

I like the epic mx but know full well that it is not even close to these new cameras.

to suggest this camera is four years behind it's time just doesn't add up unless you focus on one or two paper specs.... redcode is a wonder though.... that is the one spec that was genius.

[Kurtisso]

Of course the "global shutter" option has no details yet. My hunch (and I stress hunch) is that it isn't totally figured out yet or that it affects frame rates and DR quite a bit so they don't want to advertise a 12 stop DR, 30fps camera sensor  Most camera companies are struggling with CMOS global shutter, wouldn't be surprised if Canon is the same...

if you keep bashing maybe the candy comes out?

[Luke Mason]

27 minutes ago, Kurtisso said:

Of course the "global shutter" option has no details yet. My hunch (and I stress hunch) is that it isn't totally figured out yet or that it affects frame rates and DR quite a bit so they don't want to advertise a 12 stop DR, 30fps camera sensor  Most camera companies are struggling with CMOS global shutter, wouldn't be surprised if Canon is the same...

if you keep bashing maybe the candy comes out?

The global shutter option "C700 GS PL" has very clear details, it's just that you missed it.

Advertised DR is 14 stops, one stop less than regular C700.

Sensitivity on C700 GS seems normal:

4K 60fps or lower/2K crop 120fps or lower:
[*200 - 320 - 25600 - *102400]

4K over 60fps/2K crop over 120fps:
[*400 - 640 - 25600 - *102400]

There might be a slight drop in base sensitivity, similar to F55.

[Kurtisso]

32 minutes ago, Luke Mason said:

The global shutter option "C700 GS PL" has very clear details, it's just that you missed it.

Advertised DR is 14 stops, one stop less than regular C700.

Sensitivity on C700 GS seems normal:

4K 60fps or lower/2K crop 120fps or lower:
[*200 - 320 - 25600 - *102400]

4K over 60fps/2K crop over 120fps:
[*400 - 640 - 25600 - *102400]

There might be a slight drop in base sensitivity, similar to F55.

Interesting! I didn't see that on the CVP site, in the B&H video or in the Canon introduction video. Found it on the B&H site though (if anyone hasn't seen that either). Apparently it's a 4.2k cmos sensor they use for it. Interested to see it in action! If it really can do GS at 14 stops DR and all that high speed, that might be one of it's stronger points!

[Michael Ma]

No specs.  Because Canon hasn't decided what feature they are going to disable by firmware yet.

[gelaxstudio]

17 hours ago, jax_rox said:

-Canon has DPAF

Interesting to see how it all pans out. I feel that if an amazing camera like the VaricamLT struggles to gain traction at ~half the price(ish) (assuming the suggested $30k of the C700 is correct), Canon may struggle. But then, perhaps the DPAF is enough to sway some (VLT has EF mount, but no AF).

Do cinematographers care about AF？

The DPAF is smart enough to replace Focus Pullers and start  a innovation？ 

Specially the DPAF base on DSLR lens instead of cinema lens and it may cause noise issues when using non-STM lens

[IronFilm]

 

[jax_rox]

3 hours ago, gelaxstudio said:

Do cinematographers care about AF？

The DPAF is smart enough to replace Focus Pullers and start  a innovation？ 

Specially the DPAF base on DSLR lens instead of cinema lens and it may cause noise issues when using non-STM lens

Yeah, I certainly would rather my focus puller.. you know, pull focus, rather than screw around with DPAF. And I can't see too many productions at that level that would want/need it.

Perhaps Producers trying to keep costs down, but it obviously doesn't replace a focus puller.

I think it's best suited for the C100/300 single-operator type cameras, I don't particularly get it on something like this, but hey maybe there's a market?

[Jimmy]

Not sure this has been posted yet in it's entirety.... The grade is surprisingly sloppy, imho... but there are a few wow shows from halfway in:

 

[Leica50mm]

I enjoyed that .  I starts looking really really good towards the end when things get a little darker. 

I think cameras are becoming like film stocks . Pick your flavor and shoot. 

 

Thanks,

Tim

www.tjphoto.net 

www.thefilmdivision.tumblr.com

[IronFilm]

 

The big strength of the Canon Cx00 series is it was targeting the many thousands upon thousands of video shooters who started out with a Canon Rebel, as they'd then move up to a Canon 5D mk2 / mk3, but then after that... where did they go next? To a C100 / C300 of course!

This is one of the reasons Canon can kinda ignore the competition and not need to push too far in front with the spec sheet (like say Sony does), as Canon has a *MASSIVE* built in market for what they bring out. This is a reason why the C100 mk1 and C300 mk1 was such a humongous success.

However, we've come a long way since the 5D mk2 days (plenty of new shooters are starting out on a GH4 or a7S instead, reducing the built in market Canon would have for the Cx00 range once these shooters grow up. We saw how the new C300 mk2 struggled, leading to big price cuts), plus more importantly if Canon tries to bring out a camera which is too far outside where their "core" is then they'll lack the advantage of a built in market for it.

Which I feel is a significant reason why the C500 wasn't as successful as they'd have liked, because the C500 targeted shooters that are too far removed from their "5D video shooters core" (unlike the C100/C300 which is a natural one step up from a Canon DSLR).

The C700 is in the same boat, it isn't at all aimed at the Canon DSLR shooters. I fully expect in a short space of time we'll see big price cuts on the C700 just like what happened with the C300 mk2, as the C700 needs it if it is to be a competitive choice vs a Sony F55 / F5 or Varicam LT. Those cameras have been on the market much longer (thus are already more widely used and accepted) and are much cheaper. I don't see what is the killer features of the C700 which will justify its substantial price premium over those alternatives? Maybe I'm wrong and the C700 is worth the extra cost, will need to wait and see from user reports of how it performs.