Canon 1D X Mark II user reports and 4K crop

[Andrew Reid]

I'm thinking of getting a 1D X Mark II, just because of Dual Pixel AF and slow-mo.

Anybody want to swap for my 1D C?

Interested to see what existing owners think.

How is rolling shutter in 4K? How is the full frame 1080p quality with sharpness dialled all the way down? Audio-pre-amp quality for ext. mic? Battery run times in 4K?

The 4K crop doesn't seem as harsh compared to the 1D C as I expected (from full frame).

[DBounce]

Andrew, in my experience with the 1DXMkII rolling shutter had been a non-issue. 1080p is "Canon" 1080p. I don't think the issue is sharpness, it simply lacks resolution. Audio quality from the in camera preamps is very usable. And battery life is good.

The DPAF and 60p are well worth the price of admission. Granted I have had grips about the 1080p, as I know Canon could do better. Nonetheless, it's still the best... and only option for 4k @60p, in a DSLR form factor. I would wager this will not change when the GH5 is released. The camera saw extensive use during the Olympics, for both stills and video. It is a professional level piece of kit. Arguably the most appealing Canon camera available at present. The C300 mkii has heavy competition,  and frankly does not compete as favorably in its segment. The 5DMIV lacks the all important 60p option, and the crop is extreme. It's pity, as I had intended on adding one as a B-camera. If you do go with the 1DXMkII, it will serve you well for many years.  Comparing to my Sony A7Rii, I can tell you the 1DXMkII is the clear winner.  In my own my testing, while performing color grades on footage from both cameras with the same lens, the Canon's footage was able to be pushed to a much greater extent than the Sony, which became unusable when pushed to similar levels.  

C-Log - yes, it's would be nice to have.  But some might argue the need for log on an 8 bit  camera. I do think Canon should have thrown it in, but I can live without it in light of the other things this camera brings. 

DPAF - priceless. The best I have used by far. This single feature is reason enough to switch. Especially when you have this camera mounted to a gimbal. I cannot impress upon you enough how useful DPAF is. It's almost like cheating.

I've been editing my footage in Premiere Pro, as it now supports proxie files. Working with proxies actually takes away most of the pain of working with MJPEG. 

If you do get it, you will not look back.  The 4k is a bit different in feel to the 1DC. It seems to be of the more modern flavor that is becoming common in movies these days.  Cleaner, but not totally sterile. It seems a lot of new camera are favoring this look. Give it a try. In the end it's about telling the story. I know in my use the 1DXMkII proved to be a better tool for that job... because it worked, and did so without fuss. No need for a follow focus. Not even sure where my follow focus is, just haven't  needed it. And now I can use AF lenses. I mean I can really use them... and pull focus... and nail my shots. I'm not saying DPAF is perfect, but it's definitely usable in a professional setting. And frankly in many respects it does a better job than I can. The way it hold focus, even when working at f1.2 is crazy. 

 

[Andrew Reid]

2 hours ago, DBounce said:

Andrew, in my experience with the 1DXMkII rolling shutter had been a non-issue.

In 24p is rolling shutter skew the same as in 60p or more?

2 hours ago, DBounce said:

1080p is "Canon" 1080p. I don't think the issue is sharpness, it simply lacks resolution.

That's a bit of a concern / question mark for me.

The 1D C does very good 1080p. The full frame 1080/24p is very nice - not as soft as the 5D Mark III.

The Super 35mm 1080p is high level and the HDMI 1080p when set to 4K is oversampled from the 4K sensor output, so even better.

Does the 1D X Mark II do all of this and more?

Any samples of the 1080/24p full frame to upload so I can take a look at them? Doesn't have to be anything special just a few seconds of a shot at infinity.

2 hours ago, DBounce said:

Audio quality from the in camera preamps is very usable. And battery life is good.

Good to hear! How many hours of 4K 24p can you shoot on one battery?

DPAF - priceless. The best I have used by far. This single feature is reason enough to switch. Especially when you have this camera mounted to a gimbal. I cannot impress upon you enough how useful DPAF is. It's almost like cheating

How are the focus racks during a shot when you touch the screen and the AF is set to rack on the slowest / most natural setting - do they look human or do they look a bit stiff and robot like?

[gt3rs]

Luke did test the 1Dx II vs.1Dc also on the 1080p:

I cannot comment on the 1080p quality because I use only the 120fps, that is for sure not on pair to the 4k 60p scaled down to 1080p. For my usage I prefer to always to shoot at 4k even for quick turnaround. I can edit even directly from the CFast card with Resolve in real time so I can have a quick turnaround without too many hassle. So if you have enough CFast or fast CF cards why bother with the 1080p.

Battery life I would say I can fill a 256 CFast card with 1/3 of battery left. So i would say around 1h & 1/2  - 2h with one battery but is not scentific. In my usage I tend to reveiw alot the clips and I do a lot of gimbal work where I use an external monitor.

AF racks look very good to me not robotic.. but Philip Bloom is supposed to publish an AF test soon so you may want to wait that for an in deep analysis.

For me the AF is really good, I just finish a video of horse back riding shoot 70% on a Ronin M wide open at 24 1.4 and 50 1.2 as a one man band and running around the horses that gallop... I had a few miss focus but before it would simply be impossible.

 

 

 

[DBounce]

17 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

In 24p is rolling shutter skew the same as in 60p or more?

That's a bit of a concern / question mark for me.

The 1D C does very good 1080p. The full frame 1080/24p is very nice - not as soft as the 5D Mark III.

The Super 35mm 1080p is high level and the HDMI 1080p when set to 4K is oversampled from the 4K sensor output, so even better.

Does the 1D X Mark II do all of this and more?

Any samples of the 1080/24p full frame to upload so I can take a look at them? Doesn't have to be anything special just a few seconds of a shot at infinity.

Good to hear! How many hours of 4K 24p can you shoot on one battery?

How are the focus racks during a shot when you touch the screen and the AF is set to rack on the slowest / most natural setting - do they look human or do they look a bit stiff and robot like?

I'm honestly not sure about the rolling shutter in 24p vs 60p... I assume it would have to be better at the faster frame rate. But I have not tested this. And truthfully, without two cameras, mounted to a dual head I would not be able to do this test scientifically,  as there would be no way for me to repeat it wIth the different frame rates at the same pan speed.

In any case you will see a noticeable improvement over the 1DC.

From what I can tell the 1DC is superior at native 1080p. However, the down-scaled 4k from the 1DX Mkii will trump the 1DC, and it can do so at 60fps.

Interesting note: your question about the HDMI output lead me to do a quick test connecting the 1DXMKii to my TV via hdmi. I then switched the mode from 4k to 1080p. The crop changed and guess what else changed?  The image quality. If you are recording 1080p via the HDMI out the 1080p will look very clean indeed. The only problem with this is that the HDMI cannot output 120fps. Other than that it looks great.  Just make sure the camera is not set to 1080p mode.

I can shoot an 5 hour session on a single battery np. Granted I am not rolling the entire time. But it easily can make it through a days work. Generally, I'm at the halfway point if I start on a full charge. 

Focus racks to my eyes look like you had a skilled focus puller on set. Really very good. 

[Andrew Reid]

So in Luke's test -

1D X II full frame 1080p is the same quality in 24,60,120fps.

1D C full frame 1080p is the same quality as the 1D X Mark II at 24p but softer in 60p and it doesn't do 120fps.

1D C Super 35mm 1080p is better than all of the above.

1D C 4K seems very slightly less noisy at ISO 12,800, otherwise the same.

1D C Canon LOG has a View Assist. When shooting C-LOG on the 1D X Mark II you shoot from the flat image.

They are quite similar but the full frame 120fps and Dual Pixel AF of the 1D X Mark II are the main selling points (and of course 4K 60fps also handy for a moderate slow-mo although not so much for me, would rather shoot 120fps and keep the file sizes down).

[DBounce]

As promised. This file is shot at 24p from the 1DXMkii.  Let me know what you think. In all honesty, save for the file size it makes more sense to use the 4k mode and then down scale. On a side note. I also recorded this scene in 4k. I can tell you that with no change to the settings the 4k shot looks, like perhaps there is more dynamic range. Certainly the highlights show more detail.

E95I2981.MOV

[Andrew Reid]

Thanks a lot DBounce.

Would be interesting to see the same shot in both 24p and 120fps.

Does compression hold up ok at the higher frame rate with motion blur (try a whip pan)... What is the minimum shutter speed you can use at 120fps? Is it a continuous 120fps like the RX100 IV or is conformed in-camera to a standard frame rate?

[gt3rs]

1/125 is the minimum shutter speed. 120fps is conformed to the camera framer rate 24,25,30 or 60 also no audio. Max record time at 120fps is 7 minutes.

[Luke Mason]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

In 24p is rolling shutter skew the same as in 60p or more?

That's a bit of a concern / question mark for me.

The 1D C does very good 1080p. The full frame 1080/24p is very nice - not as soft as the 5D Mark III.

The Super 35mm 1080p is high level and the HDMI 1080p when set to 4K is oversampled from the 4K sensor output, so even better.

Does the 1D X Mark II do all of this and more?

Any samples of the 1080/24p full frame to upload so I can take a look at them? Doesn't have to be anything special just a few seconds of a shot at infinity.

Good to hear! How many hours of 4K 24p can you shoot on one battery?

How are the focus racks during a shot when you touch the screen and the AF is set to rack on the slowest / most natural setting - do they look human or do they look a bit stiff and robot like?

FF HD on 1DC/1DX II up to 30p has higher horizontal resolution, vertical resolution is about the same as 5D3. 1DX II 60p and 120p are the same 5D3 quality.

1080p HDMI output in 4K mode on 1DC/1DX II is 2x2 pixel binned, not oversampled.

On 1DX II, 4K mode has consistent rolling shutter at all frame rates, about 16ms.

1DC is the only Canon DSLR that can record internally or stay standby in liveview non-stop for 12 hours (with enough power supply and storage). All other cameras including 1DX II and 5D4 stop recording or exit liveview every 30min. This is important to consider if you do long events.

11 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

1/125 is the minimum shutter speed. 120fps is conformed to the camera framer rate 24,25,30 or 60 also no audio. Max record time at 120fps is 7 minutes.

That's partially incorrect I'm afraid, 120/100fps recording gets conformed to 29.97fps or 25fps depending on NTSC/PAL settings, only these two framerates are available when shooting 120/100fps.

38 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Thanks a lot DBounce.

Would be interesting to see the same shot in both 24p and 120fps.

Does compression hold up ok at the higher frame rate with motion blur (try a whip pan)... What is the minimum shutter speed you can use at 120fps? Is it a continuous 120fps like the RX100 IV or is conformed in-camera to a standard frame rate?

Higher framerates in HD over 30p are ALL-I compression only, the bitrate scales linearly at 180Mbps for 60p and 360Mbps for 120p, compression artifacts are very rare.

[Oliver Daniel]

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I'm thinking of getting a 1D X Mark II, just because of Dual Pixel AF and slow-mo.

Anybody want to swap for my 1D C?

Interested to see what existing owners think.

How is rolling shutter in 4K? How is the full frame 1080p quality with sharpness dialled all the way down? Audio-pre-amp quality for ext. mic? Battery run times in 4K?

The 4K crop doesn't seem as harsh compared to the 1D C as I expected (from full frame).

Bloody hell Andrew, you've done it now. 

I've been following the 1DX II ever since release - ticks a lot of my boxes. But my interest faded with no presence of C-log. I'm big on grading and I absolutely love it, so this now seems interesting to me. Footage I've seen shot in standard profiles looks like it's wrapped in a shiny sheet of plastic. 

I use my A7SII the most at the moment. I enjoy using it, however the poor battery life and non-working white balance does my head in. As does the crop in 120fps and the vacancy of 4K 60p, and the low bit rate. Plus the stills - I have EF lenses so I haven't got great stills capability with the A7SII.

With my A7SII, I also have the official clip-on monitor, the Zeiss 24-70mm and 6 batteries - so a great chunk of value here! (If I happen to sell it all). 

The DPAF is very interesting (I constantly film fast moving subjects such as rock vocalists going nuts) and high quality 60p is an absolute must. I'm always filming talent who have to look amazing and flawless on camera. So I'm thinking the 1DX II could potentially be a better fit. 

Question is to current users: what is the 120fps like? This is what worries me, as Canon don't have a great history of slo-mo. Is there lots of aliasing? Moire? Detail? Noise? Artefacts? 

[Luke Mason]

1 minute ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Bloody hell Andrew, you've done it now. 

I've been following the 1DX II ever since release - ticks a lot of my boxes. But my interest faded with no presence of C-log. I'm big on grading and I absolutely love it, so this now seems interesting to me. Footage I've seen shot in standard profiles looks like it's wrapped in a shiny sheet of plastic. 

I use my A7SII the most at the moment. I enjoy using it, however the poor battery life and non-working white balance does my head in. As does the crop in 120fps and the vacancy of 4K 60p, and the low bit rate. Plus the stills - I have EF lenses so I haven't got great stills capability with the A7SII.

With my A7SII, I also have the official clip-on monitor, the Zeiss 24-70mm and 6 batteries - so a great chunk of value here! (If I happen to sell it all). 

The DPAF is very interesting (I constantly film fast moving subjects such as rock vocalists going nuts) and high quality 60p is an absolute must. I'm always filming talent who have to look amazing and flawless on camera. So I'm thinking the 1DX II could potentially be a better fit. 

Question is to current users: what is the 120fps like? This is what worries me, as Canon don't have a great history of slo-mo. Is there lots of aliasing? Moire? Detail? Noise? Artefacts? 

check here:

Also bear in mind that picture profiles cannot replicate real C-log highlight roll-off and colour science.

 

 

[gt3rs]

43 minutes ago, Luke Mason said:

 

That's partially incorrect I'm afraid, 120/100fps recording gets conformed to 29.97fps or 25fps depending on NTSC/PAL settings, only these two framerates are available when shooting 120/100fps.

Yes, you are right just checked on my camera and the High Frame Rate and the 24.00p settings are mutually exclusive and PAL/NTSC settings decide the conforming frame rate. Max record time is 7:29 minutes

[Andrew Reid]

33 minutes ago, Luke Mason said:

Also bear in mind that picture profiles cannot replicate real C-log highlight roll-off and colour science.

Thanks for the insights Luke. Impressive.

That is correct but I found when creating EOSHD C-LOG that we're talking rather subtle differences in the highlight roll off and colour compared to the real thing.

Seeing the results from C-LOG on the 1D C and how nicely my custom film styles have come out with skintones vs my A7S II (there really is no contest) is convincing me that the lack of real Canon LOG on the 1D X Mark II might not be quite so big an issue.

Sorry Sony but the A7S II does not flatter the people I put in front of it - and I'm starting to think it is a fundamental sensor or hardware issue because even the raw stills don't come out as nicely as the 1D C JPEG does out of the box - and that is after a lot of messing in post, valuable time wasted making up for Sony's dodgy colour science

1 hour ago, gt3rs said:

1/125 is the minimum shutter speed. 120fps is conformed to the camera framer rate 24,25,30 or 60 also no audio. Max record time at 120fps is 7 minutes.

How long does it take to conform and write the final file after you stop recording slow-mo? Or is it instant and you can quickly start the next take?

[gt3rs]

16 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Thanks for the insights Luke. Impressive.

That is correct but I found when creating EOSHD C-LOG that we're talking rather subtle differences in the highlight roll off and colour compared to the real thing.

Seeing the results from C-LOG on the 1D C and how nicely my custom film styles have come out with skintones vs my A7S II (there really is no contest) is convincing me that the lack of real Canon LOG on the 1D X Mark II might not be quite so big an issue.

Sorry Sony but the A7S II does not flatter the people I put in front of it - and I'm starting to think it is a fundamental sensor or hardware issue because even the raw stills don't come out as nicely as the 1D C JPEG does out of the box - and that is after a lot of messing in post, valuable time wasted making up for Sony's dodgy colour science

How long does it take to conform and write the final file after you stop recording slow-mo? Or is it instant and you can quickly start the next take?

Is istantaneous and as soon as you stop you can hit record again 0 delay

[tomekk]

21 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

 

Sorry Sony but the A7S II does not flatter the people I put in front of it - and I'm starting to think it is a fundamental sensor or hardware issue because even the raw stills don't come out as nicely as the 1D C JPEG does out of the box - and that is after a lot of messing in post, valuable time wasted making up for Sony's dodgy colour science

Did you mean 1DC's raw file out of the box? JPEG is obviously processed in camera raw file.

[Andrew Reid]

No the A7S II raw file.

Skintones in the 1D C's JPEG are better, no matter what you do to the Sony RAW file in Adobe Camera Raw.

Maybe Sony's A/D converters are bad, or something else is up.

A7R II and RX1R II seem improved but the white balance system is always up in the air, I am never confident it is doing the right thing.

[tomekk]

ahh, I get you now. 

[gt3rs]

10 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Question is to current users: what is the 120fps like? This is what worries me, as Canon don't have a great history of slo-mo. Is there lots of aliasing? Moire? Detail? Noise? Artefacts? 

I agree with Luke that 120fps is 5d III quality, not bad but not great. I do use it quite a bit but when I know that I don't need too slow down too much I go with 4k 60p and conform it on post. When I can I shoot at 120fps and then re-shoot at 4k 60p and choose in post which one fits best, the athletes hate me for this:-) 
Comparing 120fps vs. 4k 60p quality is day and night IMO.

I wish there would be an option to have 120fps 1080p at 1-1 pixel.... I know it would be a severe crop but if the quality would be like a 1-1 1080 crop out of the 4k quality it would be super.

Anyway for action the combination of 120fps with DPAF and shallow DOF can create some really nice scenes.

 

[Oliver Daniel]

13 hours ago, Luke Mason said:

check here:

Also bear in mind that picture profiles cannot replicate real C-log highlight roll-off and colour science.

 

 

 

Thanks Luke. 

I'm aware the EOSHD C-Log isn't actually proper log, although it's better than nothing. 

In terms of the 120fps, I guess it's a bit hit and miss with most cameras - for instance the FS7 gets a lot of noise in the shadows at 150fps. 

Has anybody attempted any "organic, cinematic" type footage with the 1DX II yet?