Canon EOS M5: full pictures and spec

[mercer]

7 minutes ago, mkabi said:

Hey mercer, where'd you get that rumor from? Source would be nice if you can find it.

Cause, I'd be interested in that.

Here's the rumor from canon rumors...

http://www.canonrumors.com/some-canon-mirrorless-talk-cr2/

[Cinegain]

http://www.canonrumors.com/?s=mirrorless

Btw, besides some of the flair of cameras like the NX1 and G7 (maybe a hint of X-T2) this looks quite a bit like the G5x too.

It has the flippy tilty screen that I personally believe would've been nice on the M5.

[mercer]

3 minutes ago, mercer said:

Here's the rumor from canon rumors...

http://www.canonrumors.com/some-canon-mirrorless-talk-cr2/

And here's another one for a FF mirrorless lens patent. 

http://www.digitaltrends.com/photography/canon-30mm-28-lens-patent-full-frame/

[Flynn]

This is the first Canon camera I've been interested in in ages. Just wish they would add a fast portrait lens to their lineup. It'd be so cool if they had a trio of affordable f2 lenses.

And from my perspective Cinegain is right about the need for a variangle screen.

[mercer]

41 minutes ago, Hanriverprod said:

But they are aware that tv manufacturers are shoving 4k screens down our throats, at least in Korea, and people who are shooting their babies and their vacations want to see this footage on their screens? Again, this is Korea, have no idea what's going on in USA and Europe. I just don't see why they handicap their cameras so much when they should be implementing 6-8k in their cinema line and just let their cameras try to catch up to what everyone else in the marketplace is already doing.

You mean they are incapable? That's even sadder.

Is it though? As a consumer I would rather give my money to a company that is honest about their technological issues than to a company that gives everything but the kitchen sink and half of it doesn't work properly.

Say what you will about Canon, but when you buy one of their cameras, it works as advertised. And don't forget, Canon was the first DSLR/DSLM to have 4K. My point about heat dissipation was about highly compressed low bitrate 4K that the other companies are offering not the mjpeg or xf-avc codecs they are using in their higher end models.

And as I said before, when your high bitrate 1080 looks as good as downscaled 4K from other manufacturers, then who needs 4K?

Who really needs a 4K TV for that matter? They've created a catch-22 for consumers. They tell consumers... "Here's a 4K TV." The consumer replies... "Great, what can I watch on it?" They say... "Here's an expensive camera that shoots 4K, but it will overheat before your kid blows out her birthday candles." The consumer bends over and takes it in the ass with a big fat smile on their face. And then hands them a few grand for a TV and a camera.

[Hanriverprod]

14 minutes ago, mercer said:

Is it though? As a consumer I would rather give my money to a company that is honest about their technological issues than to a company that gives everything but the kitchen sink and half of it doesn't work properly.

Say what you will about Canon, but when you buy one of their cameras, it works as advertised. And don't forget, Canon was the first DSLR/DSLM to have 4K. My point about heat dissipation was about highly compressed low bitrate 4K that the other companies are offering not the mjpeg or xf-avc codecs they are using in their higher end models.

And as I said before, when your high bitrate 1080 looks as good as downscaled 4K from other manufacturers, then who needs 4K?

Who really needs a 4K TV for that matter? They've created a catch-22 for consumers. They tell consumers... "Here's a 4K TV." The consumer replies... "Great, what can I watch on it?" They say... "Here's an expensive camera that shoots 4K, but it will overheat before your kid blows out her birthday candles." The consumer bends over takes and takes it in the ass with a big fat smile on their face. And then hands then a few grand for a TV and a camera.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying about Canon that's why I want them to do what others are doing but better, not great but two steps behind. Also, that quality differential is quickly disappearing with every company fine tuning their products. As far as 4k, I have a 2k monitor but I see a big difference between something shot on 1080 and 4k including the 80d when watching in 1080. For my eyes, the images that look best on my screen is shot on 4k but viewed on 1440 on youtube and 2k on vimeo. Watching it in 4k looks over pixelated. Again, for me, I see a noticeable difference when the material is originated on 1080 or 4k, 4k in 1440 or 2k looks nice, 1080 in 1080 not so much anymore.

[mercer]

18 minutes ago, Hanriverprod said:

I agree with a lot of what you're saying about Canon that's why I want them to do what others are doing but better, not great but two steps behind. Also, that quality differential is quickly disappearing with every company fine tuning their products. As far as 4k, I have a 2k monitor but I see a big difference between something shot on 1080 and 4k including the 80d when watching in 1080. For my eyes, the images that look best on my screen is shot on 4k but viewed on 1440 on youtube and 2k on vimeo. Watching it in 4k looks over pixelated. Again, for me, I see a noticeable difference when the material is originated on 1080 or 4k, 4k in 1440 or 2k looks nice, 1080 in 1080 not so much anymore.

I just spent the past year chasing specs, and although I learned a lot, my footage isn't much better than it was when I was just shooting with my eos-m... I was just chasing that elusive resolution.

I know you've been looking for a camera to shoot your next feature with, if I were you, I would just grab the C100 mkii or C300 mkii and be done with it. You know they'll be reliable and the cinematic look is built into their color science.

And honestly, I still watch most movies on a 720p JVC, so what do I know... It looks good to me. 

[Hanriverprod]

10 minutes ago, mercer said:

I just spent the past year chasing specs, and although I learned a lot, my footage isn't much better than it was when I was just shooting with my eos-m... I was just chasing that elusive resolution.

I know you've been looking for a camera to shoot your next feature with, if I were you, I would just grab the C100 mkii or C300 mkii and be done with it. You know they'll be reliable and the cinematic look is built into their color science.

And honestly, I still watch most movies on a 720p JVC, so what do I know... It looks good to me. 

Yeah, I'm leaning towards the c300 ii. I just have some downtime having the production company comb through the script right now for budgeting and scheduling and started obsessing over camera gear which I have never done before. I spend most of my time writing. Last time I researched stuff was a red one and actually brought the first red camera to Korea. I sold it to a rental house and they let me borrow it back for my shoot. I remember the production company and dp were excited to shoot with the red back then.

I was telling  a younger filmmaker how lucky they are these days to have such affordable gear that can produce high end images. I remember moving from super 16mm to a sony pd-150 and being excited to make shorts on mini-dv tapes. I used to work in post, and I helped two houses move from onlining tape (beta, digi-beta, d1) to Avid workflows. It took a while for cameras to catch up to what was happening in post but it's happening now as we speak. I'm especially excited over kinefinity, ursa mini 4.6k (hopefully they fix the color issue) and canon 1dx ii (want to test dpaf with moving actors). Now you can just buy one of these cameras and test and prepare to your heart's content. You can really sort out the blocking and pacing as well as some production design elements, choose focal lengths for shots, and design your lighting all before even preproduction and get a decent idea of how your film will look and feel. What a luxury for indie filmmakers.

As far as  resolutions, the quality is pretty clear between 1080 and 4k on a 2k monitor. I can't imagine the difference on a 4k monitor. I am in the process of buying one for viewing dailies at home, so I am thinking forward and seeing that for someone like me who drags their feet on tech (my first smartphone was iphone 5) I am starting to see why people working on very high end productions need 6k and 8k already.

 

[wolf33d]

1 hour ago, mkabi said:

Hey mercer, where'd you get that rumor from? Source would be nice if you can find it.

Cause, I'd be interested in that.

Canonrumors. But they never say that it will be for sur this year. 

We will see. 

[mercer]

20 minutes ago, Hanriverprod said:

Yeah, I'm leaning towards the c300 ii. I just have some downtime having the production company comb through the script right now for budgeting and scheduling and started obsessing over camera gear which I have never done before. I spend most of my time writing. Last time I researched stuff was a red one and actually brought the first red camera to Korea. I sold it to a rental house and they let me borrow it back for my shoot. I remember the production company and dp were excited to shoot with the red back then.

I was telling  a younger filmmaker how lucky they are these days to have such affordable gear that can produce high end images. I remember moving from super 16mm to a sony pd-150 and being excited to make shorts on mini-dv tapes. I used to work in post, and I helped two houses move from onlining tape (beta, digi-beta, d1) to Avid workflows. It took a while for cameras to catch up to what was happening in post but it's happening now as we speak. I'm especially excited over kinefinity, ursa mini 4.6k (hopefully they fix the color issue) and canon 1dx ii (want to test dpaf with moving actors). Now you can just buy one of these cameras and test and prepare to your heart's content. You can really sort out the blocking and pacing as well as some production design elements, choose focal lengths for shots, and design your lighting all before even preproduction and get a decent idea of how your film will look and feel. What a luxury for indie filmmakers.

As far as  resolutions, the quality is pretty clear between 1080 and 4k on a 2k monitor. I can't imagine the difference on a 4k monitor. I am in the process of buying one for viewing dailies at home, so I am thinking forward and seeing that for someone like me who drags their feet on tech (my first smartphone was iphone 5) I am starting to see why people working on very high end productions need 6k and 8k already.

 

I can see why in a professional scenario, high end 4K is almost a necessity these days, but I do no budget shorts, mostly for fun but hopefully as another sales tool for my screenplays.

My childhood friend started shooting movies in his backyard on Super 8, then VHS. Eventually we worked our way up to Mini DV, HD, 4K, etc... I was always interested in filmmaking but couldn't afford it, so I made screenwriting my primary goal.

A few years back I was finally able to afford a camera and I have been playing catch up ever since, trying to learn and get better at the craft... More pitfalls than successes, but at least I have a lot of lenses now... Haha. 

Knowing you're considering the 1DXii, you may want to take a look at the XC10 as a B-cam. It's a great run and gun camera you could give to almost any operator or 2nd unit crew to get b-roll. 

[Hanriverprod]

30 minutes ago, mercer said:

I can see why in a professional scenario, high end 4K is almost a necessity these days, but I do no budget shorts, mostly for fun but hopefully as another sales tool for my screenplays.

My childhood friend started shooting movies in his backyard on Super 8, then VHS. Eventually we worked our way up to Mini DV, HD, 4K, etc... I was always interested in filmmaking but couldn't afford it, so I made screenwriting my primary goal.

A few years back I was finally able to afford a camera and I have been playing catch up ever since, trying to learn and get better at the craft... More pitfalls than successes, but at least I have a lot of lenses now... Haha. 

Knowing you're considering the 1DXii, you may want to take a look at the XC10 as a B-cam. It's a great run and gun camera you could give to almost any operator or 2nd unit crew to get b-roll. 

Some of the footage of 1dxii online looks good, not as thick as graded raw images, but sturdy. It almost has a glow to it, don't know how to describe it really. I like the size of it since most of the shoot will be location interiors, apartments and shops, but the dp is a little hesitant with the dslr form factor. He's also skeptical about the dpaf. If I go that route I will look into the xc10. Thanks for the tip.

Sorry for derailing the thread...

[gt3rs]

7 hours ago, Jaime Valles said:

Some questions:

1. Can it record clips longer than 30 minutes in a row (like a 2 hour uninterrupted event)?
2. Does it have 24p?
3. Will DPAF work with regular Canon EF lenses (like the EF 70-200mm f/2.8L II lens) ?
4. Does it have clean HDMI output for external recording?

If the answer to any of these is "no" then it's definitely not for me. If they're all "yes" then I would be very interested.

If the specs are true it is a 80D in a mirrorless dress. So you can deduct already the performance and features

1. No, due to the European video camera tax

2. Yes, 80D has it, why they would remove? (you never know with Canon)

3. Yes, and if the battery power is enough it should have the same speed and functionality has the 80D in LiveView = very good. 

4. No, the 80D doesn't have a clean HDMI out.

Again it could be totally different but view that Canon is quite predictable I bet this is right. Price would probably be in the 80D zone too...

 

[JurijTurnsek]

Looks like a winner. EVF and DPAF were the two essential things missing from the M line. 4K is a pipe-dream at this point, but it won't make or break a consumer product.

If the market eats it up, maybe the Rebel line will die a quick death to be replaced by the M and mirrorless will gain in support (other brands would benefit from this shift immensely).

[sanveer]

"5-axis electronic image stabilization"

Sony makes a smartphone sized sensor that does 3-axis electronic stabilisation. I wonder if 5-axis electronic stabilisation is even possible?

 

 

[jgharding]

after the XC10 being actually good despite the spec sheet (standard Canon) I'm actually quite interested in this...

If the stabilisation is good and works with any lens, it could be brilliant.

Shame about the 4K though.

[Mattias Burling]

What I found the most annoying with the M3 was the moire. It was easily fixed in the original M with the crop mode but no such luck on the M3.
And since ML will never come for any of the newer Ms (different OS) it needs to be a little better for my personal use.
Other than that I thought the M3 was a really sweet camera. Lots to love.

[Nikkor]

Somewhere I read that these new canon aps-c cameras have sony sensor technology. I wonder if this means that the colors won´t be the same on them compared to the classic canon look.

[ntblowz]

I guess the reason for not putting 4K in EOS-M is fear of killing of the XC line, XC-15 should have DPAF

[Mattias Burling]

5 minutes ago, ntblowz said:

I guess the reason for not putting 4K in EOS-M is fear of killing of the XC line, XC-15 should have DPAF

To have the same codec and 4K as the xc10 it would need an even ligger cooling fan than in the xc10. And its suposed to be a small still shooter. Would defeat its own purpose.

DPAF in the xc15 would have been od for a xx5. XC20 is another story but its to soon.

[tugela]

9 hours ago, wolf33d said:

The pictures of the new Canon flagship mirorless leaked. Some specs as well.

this is the latest joke from Canon:

Ergonomics looks amazing. Nice EVF, nice button layout, nice body and grip. 

But guess what? They give us a 80D video spec with no 4K. Are we late 2016? Yes we are. Bravo Canon once again. This camera could have been an AMAZING video S35 camera if it had XC10 specs (4K and nice codec and nice CLOG). Technically easy but Canon won't do it because they are fuckers and I am tired of it

http://photorumors.com/2016/09/08/this-again-is-the-canon-eos-m5-mirrorless-camera/

It is not technically easy. If it was they would have done it. The hardware can't do it without a fan in the camera or using bit rate heavy storage.

8 hours ago, Milton Lopes said:

Waiting for the price tag. I dont usually consider Canon cameras, since i don't miss my old one since i've moved to Panasonic, but if it comes at Rebel price territory it sounds to me like a great B-Cam for its AF and stills capabilities. 

About $300-350 is what it is worth.

8 hours ago, mercer said:

7 hours ago, mercer said:

Is it though? As a consumer I would rather give my money to a company that is honest about their technological issues than to a company that gives everything but the kitchen sink and half of it doesn't work properly.

Say what you will about Canon, but when you buy one of their cameras, it works as advertised. And don't forget, Canon was the first DSLR/DSLM to have 4K. My point about heat dissipation was about highly compressed low bitrate 4K that the other companies are offering not the mjpeg or xf-avc codecs they are using in their higher end models.

And as I said before, when your high bitrate 1080 looks as good as downscaled 4K from other manufacturers, then who needs 4K?

Who really needs a 4K TV for that matter? They've created a catch-22 for consumers. They tell consumers... "Here's a 4K TV." The consumer replies... "Great, what can I watch on it?" They say... "Here's an expensive camera that shoots 4K, but it will overheat before your kid blows out her birthday candles." The consumer bends over and takes it in the ass with a big fat smile on their face. And then hands them a few grand for a TV and a camera.

Yes as flexible as e mount, not as much as m4/3 obviously. But C-mount lenses, Pentax 110, a lot of options. As of now, I believe it's just your generic speedboosters, ef and Nikon F. I assume an FD is probably on the horizon as well. 

As far as 4K, IDK why they can't put in a 100mbps mjpeg version or MP4 version like Panasonic. I remember that interview from the guy from Canon saying they were having heat dissipation issues. But as I said in my previous comment. Their high bitrate 1080p looks as good as Panny's low bitrate 4K, so for me where's the benefit? I am downscaling to 1080p before the edit, so I am losing nothing and saving time.

I also really like the new body too. It's nice to see them move to a power switch rather than the button. And I actually like tilt screens better than articulating screens, so again I am pleased with that. 

My questions are bitrate, IBIS, and how well the DPAF will translate through their ef to ef-m adapter. And price. 

Because they don't sell TVs. Or they were being honest last year when they said they were having issues solving heat dissipation for 4K. 

There is absolutely no reason to lie when your excuse is a flaw in technology. 

What are you talking about? Canon's HD bit rates in DSLRs is relatively low.

And pretty much all of it looks worse than downsized 4K.