GH5 Prototype

[Davey]

7 hours ago, dafreaking said:

Ever notice that all of them have 1 or 2 standout features but some big no nos? 

A6300 - Excellent 4k and Autofocus

Olympus - Outstanding stabilization

GH4 - Battery life and usability.

Canon - DPAF and Colour.

 

Everyone stil doesn't have everything and at the desired price point.

 

It's like a conspiracy of cooperation. 

[IronFilm]

On 9/19/2016 at 11:17 PM, mos said:

Please, whoever is at Photokina talking to panasonic reps: we desperately need (usable) cropmarks on the GH5. Camera has been out for 2.5 Years now and I'm still duct taping my display. Cropmarks for 2.35, 2.66 (with black/dark borders, not just lines), preferrably ability to upload custom cropmark images, Anamorphic desqueeze for 1.33, 1.5 and 2x, focus assist zoom during recording. Unfortunately Panasonic reps didn't pay any attention to a very detailed and easy update-list from the GH4 groups.

x100000 agreed! Absolutely want crop marks, in a variety of options. 

It is such a simple thing, even the GH1 could've had it? Or the GH2.... or the GH3.... or GH4....  why on earth is it still missing?? 

[IronFilm]

On 9/19/2016 at 3:44 AM, TheRenaissanceMan said:

Not exactly a headline spec, but I'm really hoping this guy has a full sensor width 4K mode and a pixel-to-pixel cropped 4K mode, so we can get multiple focal lengths/more reach out of a single lens.

If it is only 2.2x vs 2x crop, I don't see much point in being able to switch between the two. But if it has a 20MP sensor, then a pixel-to-pixel 4K crop would be a significantly higher than 2.2x final crop? Which could be worthwhile, as if it then makes your lenses a wider range of focal lengths. 

Handy for events for instance! If I want do shoot 4K from the back of the room and need a little bit of extra reach. 

 

On 9/19/2016 at 3:44 AM, TheRenaissanceMan said:

Can anyone tell what kind of HDMI it has? Even mini would be a step up from the GH4's micro, AKA the worst video connection in history.

100% agree! Ideally it would have full size HDMI + full size SDI
But even mini HDMI + mini SDI together would be nice. 
Doubt any sort of SDI would happen... but even so, double outputs would be very nice! Maybe full size HDMI + mini SDI? You could have full size HDMI going out to your external recorder, plus your EVF hooked up to the mini SDI with a LUT applied (ha, if the GH5 can have LUT support! :-D ).

On 9/19/2016 at 4:43 AM, marcuswolschon said:

I don't think e.g. music performances are a fringe case. That's actually a common scenario from a garage band that wants a recording in a dark backstreet bar to a fan visiting a festival and catching some memories.

In such cases a GH4/G7 with a fast lens will still be sufficient. 
We're not talking about a national level brand here! But a garage band doing a live performance, a GH4/G7 is totally fine for that. If you can't do that then: 1) you're having unrealistic expectations for a zero budget (or a few hundred bucks, same same thing) production which doesn't have to be perfectly 100% clean 2) you're not using an appropriately fast lens / focal reducer 3) you're not picking the right shots / angles for the edit

 

Yes I would like the GH4 a stop or two faster in lowlight, but would I trade that for the higher price and limitations of a Sony? Nope, but at least that option does exist if you want to go Sony instead!

Should Panasonic focus on this aspect first next above everything else? Nope, small things like crop aspect ratio markers or 4K 10bit 422 @ 60fps, or 4K DCI 24fps raw onto CFast / XQD cards, or full size HDMI, or movable EVF, keeping a low price, built in ND filters, multi aspect ratio sensor, etc etc etc.... all matter more than pushing the lowlight performance even further. 

[wolf33d]

12 hours ago, dafreaking said:

Ever notice that all of them have 1 or 2 standout features but some big no nos? 

A6300 - Excellent 4k and Autofocus

Olympus - Outstanding stabilization

GH4 - Battery life and usability.

Canon - DPAF and Colour.

 

Everyone stil doesn't have everything and at the desired price point.

 

Exactly but you forgot some

A7 series has the FF and noise control 

GH5 the recording specs..

canon the ergonomics..

We need Olympus stab, GH5 video specs (4k60fps and 10b422), Canon colours and DPAF and ergonomics, with an A7R2 sensor and with canon lenses. Now imagine that camera ? Fully stabilized with amazing AF, amazing sensor for stills, great DoF, great everything actually.

now one needs two lens system and two cameras to get 95% of this. 

[IronFilm]

6 minutes ago, wolf33d said:

canon the ergonomics..

I completely fail to see this. A GH4 is vastly preferable to use than a Canon DSLR. 

Strongly suspect that the massive majority of preferences for Canon's so called "ergonomics" is just to the *huge* number of ex (or current) Canon shooters, thus saying "ergonomics" is just a code word for "familiar". There is nothing truly great about Canon's DSLR ergonomics for filming with, it is just "what we are used to" (personally I'd rather take a Nikon for stills!).

[marcuswolschon]

12 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Strongly suspect that the massive majority of preferences for Canon's so called "ergonomics" is just to the *huge* number of ex (or current) Canon shooters There is nothing truly great about Canon's DSLR ergonomics for filming with

I feel that both DSLR and DSLMs form factors are just terrible for filming.

 

Nobody in their right mind would hold a camera outstretched with both hands to look at a screen attached to it's back. That's just what already existed from photos and has not been changed since.

 

The proper form factors that have been developed for video work are camcorders and shoulder cameras.

[Mattias Burling]

Ive had more Panasonic mirrorless cameras in my hand than Canon DSLRs. So it isn't familiarity when I say that I definitely prefer the Canon ergonomics. 

Its simply a better and more comfortable grip for my hands. Best mirrorless ergo imo is the NX1. 

5D, 1Dc, and Nikon D750 are among my top pics for grip. The xc10 is nice but I would have preferred the chunky c100 grip.

At the bottom lies Panasony.

But thats for my hands. Im a tall guy with long fingers so thats probably why. People with small hands will probably feel different.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

I don't know, man. I have large hands and am picky about grips, and I find the GH3 to be ergonomically perfect. Simply the most comfortable, intuitive camera I've ever used. No comparison to a Sony.

[IronFilm]

On 9/19/2016 at 6:48 AM, Davey said:

If Panasonic can deliver as they did with the GH4 then that will push others, who in turn will push the GH6 until we end up with a Godlike all-seeing prosumer unit for £200 come 2025.

 

By 2005 standards we already have Godlike all-seeing prosumer camera bodies for £200

You can pick up a Panasonic G6 for that, imagine owning a G6 in 2005!!!  :-o :-o 

 

On 9/19/2016 at 9:20 AM, The Chris said:

It still looks like a great mockup/specsheet. Like I said, looking for to samples, whenever they actually surface.

Samples are certain to not show up until next year.

On 9/20/2016 at 2:10 PM, dvcrn said:

I was about to sell my MFT gear. Now I'm thinking if waiting might be better. This camera looks indeed amazing!

This is exactly why Panasonic made a pre-announcement, to prevent leakage.

And some other people considering a big purchase such as an a7S mk2 / 5Dmk4 / X-T2 / etc...    might now hold off and wait.

On 9/20/2016 at 3:40 PM, webrunner5 said:

I don't know if it has been mentioned, but the latest I hear is that it is a 18mp sensor. Not 20.

If it is 12 that is even better!!

[IronFilm]

17 hours ago, iamoui said:

So in case anyone missed it. Deciphering Neumann's code, I got:

FULLHDMI, ONESTOPIMPROVEMENT (dr or noise handling?) IBISYESAFTBD (IBIS yes, AF to be determined?)

Wow. Now I guess that explains why his posts have now been deleted.... 

[Andrew Reid]

3 hours ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

I don't know, man. I have large hands and am picky about grips, and I find the GH3 to be ergonomically perfect. Simply the most comfortable, intuitive camera I've ever used. No comparison to a Sony.

Am I the only one who preferred the GH1 and GH2 to when the GH3 gave us that 'serious' body?

Slimmer, smaller, more fun, more nimble controls, no daft rear wheel that you can't do full turns off because the rubber of the rear grip doesn't drop away next to it

I also prefer the original A7S to the A7R II / A7S II. Again, slimmer, more nimble controls, less complexity, less soulless and more shiny!

[marcuswolschon]

I too strongly prefer the old bodies.

I was able to get 3 bodies with 3 lenses accessible from the top of my shoulder bag.

[IronFilm]

7 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Am I the only one who preferred the GH1 and GH2 to when the GH3 gave us that 'serious' body?

 

3 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

But thats for my hands. Im a tall guy with long fingers so thats probably why. People with small hands will probably feel different.

Like Trump? ;-) Ha
But nah, I'm a big talk guy too with large hands. Don't mind my small GH1 at all Andrew Ried!

 

 

[Andrew Reid]

4 hours ago, marcuswolschon said:

I feel that both DSLR and DSLMs form factors are just terrible for filming.

I'm going to have to defend the DSLR and mirrorless cameras big time...

ENG shoulder shooting is overrated. I personally don't want to lug around a big heavy camera with rails and a shoulder mount that can only be shot with in one position at one height. At least with a DSLR you have a choice whether you rig it up for ENG style shooting or something more minimal.

4 hours ago, marcuswolschon said:

Nobody in their right mind would hold a camera outstretched with both hands to look at a screen attached to it's back.

When you have 5 axis stabilisation and a body that weighs less than 1kg, it really isn't that hard

Indeed when you have an EVF (either built in or via loupe) you basically have the same shooting style as a Super 16mm camera and nobody is suggesting those aren't suitable for film work.

4 hours ago, marcuswolschon said:

The proper form factors that have been developed for video work are camcorders and shoulder cameras.

Times change.

On 20 September 2016 at 5:40 AM, webrunner5 said:

I don't know if it has been mentioned, but the latest I hear is that it is a 18mp sensor. Not 20.

The 18MP refers to 6000 x 3000 in 6K Photo Mode (the maths is 6000 * 3000 = 18 million pixels)

If the final sensor is in that aspect ratio I will eat my hat

There's no way it is going to be 18MP.

It will be in region of 24-28MP if it supports 6K res

[marcuswolschon]

if it would come to with a Digital Bolex style grip(with controls on your thumb) and viewfinder, I could live with that. It's a stable position that you can keep up for an hour. (in case the person you quickly grabbed your camera to record without any time for preparation just won't stop talking)

OIS/IBIS doesn't help against the camera getting heavy in your hand and parallax movement of the camera against anything that is close. It just keeps you pointed at the same object from a slightly different angle.

[Ivanhurba]

4 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

ENG shoulder shooting is overrated.

I can fit three bodies with five lenses in an european airplane check-in size backpack. Backup bodies, all usable focal ranges and still place for audio, a laptop and stuff. No ENG or FS5 can do that. Add IBIS and it's nearly impossible to match. DSLR and mirrorless are very popular for that reason.

We know they can do raw, we know they can fit internal NDs (FZ2000) and now with the GH5 we know they can do 4k 50p with a big sensor. It's not about high end features or price, it's body size. I couldn't care less if an actor said the camera doesn't look professional enough if the image does. I really love the form factor.

7 minutes ago, marcuswolschon said:

OIS/IBIS doesn't help against the camera getting heavy in your hand and parallax movement of the camera against anything that is close. It just keeps you pointed at the same object from a slightly different angle.

Some people around here hate Nitsan and probably have their reasons, but one thing I leant from him and I love is the RatRig, Gorilla Pod combination. Tripod, slider, shoulder mount solved. I use it and for long ceremonies is perfect.

 

 

[Jimmy]

Let's face it, we all have different ideas on what makes for ideal ergonomics. The XC10 is ideal for me, small, but comfortable, with NDs and decent audio options.... No doubt it has major pitfalls for other shooting styles though.

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

I'm going to have to defend the DSLR and mirrorless cameras big time...

ENG shoulder shooting is overrated. I personally don't want to lug around a big heavy camera with rails and a shoulder mount that can only be shot with in one position at one height. At least with a DSLR you have a choice whether you rig it up for ENG style shooting or something more minimal.

ENG shooting with a Sony PXW-X320 would be for most of us a pain in the arse. Unless all you want is that boring news style coverage. 

However...  ENG shooting with a Sony PXW-X70 or FS5 with an F4 zoom could be a thing of joy, if you're needing a fast run and gun machine that is all in one.

1 hour ago, Ivanhurba said:

Some people around here hate Nitsan and probably have their reasons

That seems very odd to me, why?

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, marcuswolschon said:

if it would come to with a Digital Bolex style grip(with controls on your thumb) and viewfinder, I could live with that. It's a stable position that you can keep up for an hour. (in case the person you quickly grabbed your camera to record without any time for preparation just won't stop talking)

OIS/IBIS doesn't help against the camera getting heavy in your hand and parallax movement of the camera against anything that is close. It just keeps you pointed at the same object from a slightly different angle.

it really depends on the creative work you're doing, if you're doing hour long takes, live events, continuous recording and interviews, news, that kind of thing then of course a shoulder mount would help and there are plenty of rigs, have been for 6 years, that can easily convert a DSLR form factor for that purpose...

For music videos, short films, mood pieces, you are doing short takes, usually no longer than 1 minute each before you stop and re-take, direct, talk to actors, etc. and many times there's a tripod involved, so ENG is not the only design in town!

[marcuswolschon]

So you are arguing that because there are tasks where the form factor and ergonomics don't matter, that ergonomics don't matter at all? Just because I could hold any oddly shaped object for 1 minute, doesn't mean that that is a good shape for the object to have.

The photo camera form factor is not stable to hold for longer then it takes to make a photo and has little space for buttons and other elements to reach while you are not looking at the buttons but at the screen.

That I can get help from OIS and completely change the bad shape with a rig, doesn't make the original shape better.

What about having your hand at the side in a natural 40° angle? You strain your hand by gripping a vertical 90° object close to your eye.

What about using your eye as a default contact point? (not with a third party accessory)

What about not having the bulk weight of the lens in front of the pivot point that is your right hand?