GH5 Prototype

[fuzzynormal]

4 hours ago, Fritz Pierre said:

but even if not, capable of shooting a feature film

Aren't all cameras that capture motion picture images capable of this?

[Emanuel]

58 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Aren't all cameras that capture motion picture images capable of this?

The more I find your posts, the more I like them :-)

Unfortunately or maybe not ; ) some cameras are better than other ones, though : D

[fuzzynormal]

3 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

Aren't all cameras that capture motion picture images capable of this?

Actually, when you consider it, people have also, and often, made feature films using still cameras.

[Emanuel]

18 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Actually, when you consider it, people have also, and often, made feature films using still cameras.

You're quoting yourself now... LOL Nevermind. Take a look on this masterpiece (Still Life by Stephen van Vuuren):

Shot on Pentax K10d. Stills mode.

[Fritz Pierre]

   4 hours ago,  fuzzynormal said: 

Aren't all cameras that capture motion picture images capable of this?

 

Yes...you're right of course....

 

 

[webrunner5]

I know this is a GH4 thingy, but anyone see this video about Panasonic getting into Gimbals and GH4 Drone cameras?http://www.newsshooter.com/2016/09/24/photokina-2016-panasonic-prototype-gh4-4k-drone-camera/

[Emanuel]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

I know this is a GH4 thingy, but anyone see this video about Panasonic getting into Gimbals and GH4 Drone cameras?http://www.newsshooter.com/2016/09/24/photokina-2016-panasonic-prototype-gh4-4k-drone-camera/

Pity only within a year... Other than the most expensive DJI, we only have these ones right now:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1203955-REG/z_camera_e1cam3a701_e1_mini_4k_video.html
https://***URL removed***/reviews/yi-m1-mirrorless-ilc-first-impressions-review/2
 

[webrunner5]

6 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Pity only within a year... Other than the most expensive DJI, we only have these ones right now:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1203955-REG/z_camera_e1cam3a701_e1_mini_4k_video.html
https://***URL removed***/reviews/yi-m1-mirrorless-ilc-first-impressions-review/2
 

Well I know it is not a Sony FS 55 lol, but the new GoPro Karma is not too shabby for the cost. https://shop.gopro.com/karma

[Emanuel]

4 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Well I know it is not a Sony FS 55 lol, but the new GoPro Karma is not too shabby for the cost. https://shop.gopro.com/karma

Everything GoPro IQ related is simply to forget. Apples to oranges :-)

[Jimmy]

Wow that mini gh4 would be great (well when the gh5 version arrives)

[EspenB]

There is a working Gh5 sample at Photokina thats for sure...

[IronFilm]

There is already a "GH4 for drones":

https://yuneec.com/en_US/products/tornado/tornado-cgo4/overview.html

But seems like now Panasonic is going to make their own.

[webrunner5]

Discussion on Newsshooter 13 comments

Photokina 2016: We ask Panasonic all the questions about the GH5

 

Will ; a reply to Mark Ellsworth 4 days ago

"Right, but the micro43 standard is rather open about sensor size and aspect ratio. Crucially, the standard requires that the imaging area of the sensor be a specified diagonal measure. All Micro43 cameras but two have featured identically sized 4:3 ratio sensors. The GH1 and GH2 featured larger sensors that covered that diagonal in 4:3, but also 16:9 (and necessarily, 3:2 as well). Because lenses produce a circle, standardizing the diagonal ensures that every lens will still cover.

Understand, this is not the same as generating 16:9 or 3:2 imagery from a 4:3 sensor, where you just throw away some of the pixels from the top and bottom of the 4:3 imaging area. This involves using fewer pixels on the top and bottom, but also additional pixels on the sides. So your 16:9 image is both shorter AND wider than a 4:3 image taken with the same camera.

As regards video, this means that the effective sensor size is actually bigger, and the "crop factor" is thus less. The "crop factor" of the GH4's full sensor is 2, but the 4k video in the GH4 uses only some of the full width of the sensor, so the crop factor ends up being close to 2.3. In the GH1 and GH2, the larger 16:9 imaging area resulted in horizontal crops closer to 1.8 or 1.9, if I recall correctly.

So the GH5 may be a return of the multi aspect sensor. And if it is, this would explain a few things. Namely the 6K photo mode. Nominal 16x9 6K (not full DCI spec) is 5760 x 3240, much like we call 3840 x 2160 4K. A 4:3 sensor with 5760 pixels wide would be 4320 pixels tall and thus a 24.8 MP sensor, quite different than any yet seen in Micro43. But if that width is only in 16:9, the 4:3 imager would be 20.9 MP... slightly more than half a megapixel more than in the GX8's sensor. So with a minimal reduction in pixel size, this theoretical multi-aspect sensor is possible.

In addition to the benefit of 6K photo mode, there's more magic in a 5760x3240 16:9 imaging area. That size is exactly 1.5 times wider and 1.5 times taller than 3840. 1.5 is a kind of magic number in this regard. Oversampling by a ratio of 1.5 allows for computationally easy downconversion with improved color accuracy at each output pixel. Don't take my word for it either: you can look at the specs for every different version of the Arri Alexa, which generates its 1920x1080 from a sensor with 2880 x 1620 pixels (which it now allows you to record all of, a compromise in the original design that attempts to eke more resolution out of the sensor at the expense of color accuracy).

In summary, it doesn't take much of a leap (basically, just Panasonic returning to multi-aspect sensor, and developing a new sensor design with pixels only marginally smaller than their current generation) to arrive at a possible GH5 with internal 10-bit 4:2:2, a horizontal crop factor of 1.8 or 1.9, vastly improved color accuracy in video (in addition to the greater color sampling rate), and a true 16:9 6K photo mode with no interpolation or computational trickery".

Pretty interesting post by Will on Newshooter. He might have sort of a answer on sensor size of the GH5. Food for thought..

[TheRenaissanceMan]

10 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Discussion on Newsshooter 13 comments

Photokina 2016: We ask Panasonic all the questions about the GH5

 

Will ; a reply to Mark Ellsworth 4 days ago

"Right, but the micro43 standard is rather open about sensor size and aspect ratio. Crucially, the standard requires that the imaging area of the sensor be a specified diagonal measure. All Micro43 cameras but two have featured identically sized 4:3 ratio sensors. The GH1 and GH2 featured larger sensors that covered that diagonal in 4:3, but also 16:9 (and necessarily, 3:2 as well). Because lenses produce a circle, standardizing the diagonal ensures that every lens will still cover.

Understand, this is not the same as generating 16:9 or 3:2 imagery from a 4:3 sensor, where you just throw away some of the pixels from the top and bottom of the 4:3 imaging area. This involves using fewer pixels on the top and bottom, but also additional pixels on the sides. So your 16:9 image is both shorter AND wider than a 4:3 image taken with the same camera.

As regards video, this means that the effective sensor size is actually bigger, and the "crop factor" is thus less. The "crop factor" of the GH4's full sensor is 2, but the 4k video in the GH4 uses only some of the full width of the sensor, so the crop factor ends up being close to 2.3. In the GH1 and GH2, the larger 16:9 imaging area resulted in horizontal crops closer to 1.8 or 1.9, if I recall correctly.

So the GH5 may be a return of the multi aspect sensor. And if it is, this would explain a few things. Namely the 6K photo mode. Nominal 16x9 6K (not full DCI spec) is 5760 x 3240, much like we call 3840 x 2160 4K. A 4:3 sensor with 5760 pixels wide would be 4320 pixels tall and thus a 24.8 MP sensor, quite different than any yet seen in Micro43. But if that width is only in 16:9, the 4:3 imager would be 20.9 MP... slightly more than half a megapixel more than in the GX8's sensor. So with a minimal reduction in pixel size, this theoretical multi-aspect sensor is possible.

In addition to the benefit of 6K photo mode, there's more magic in a 5760x3240 16:9 imaging area. That size is exactly 1.5 times wider and 1.5 times taller than 3840. 1.5 is a kind of magic number in this regard. Oversampling by a ratio of 1.5 allows for computationally easy downconversion with improved color accuracy at each output pixel. Don't take my word for it either: you can look at the specs for every different version of the Arri Alexa, which generates its 1920x1080 from a sensor with 2880 x 1620 pixels (which it now allows you to record all of, a compromise in the original design that attempts to eke more resolution out of the sensor at the expense of color accuracy).

In summary, it doesn't take much of a leap (basically, just Panasonic returning to multi-aspect sensor, and developing a new sensor design with pixels only marginally smaller than their current generation) to arrive at a possible GH5 with internal 10-bit 4:2:2, a horizontal crop factor of 1.8 or 1.9, vastly improved color accuracy in video (in addition to the greater color sampling rate), and a true 16:9 6K photo mode with no interpolation or computational trickery".

Pretty interesting post by Will on Newshooter. He might have sort of a answer on sensor size of the GH5. Interesting.

If that is the case, I may mess myself a little.

But wouldn't downsampled DCI 4K require even more horizontal pixels?

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, TheRenaissanceMan said:

If that is the case, I may mess myself a little.

But wouldn't downsampled DCI 4K require even more horizontal pixels?

I am lucky to add 37 + 44.6 let alone figure that out LoL. But yes, I see your point.

[IronFilm]

6 hours ago, EspenB said:

There is a working Gh5 sample at Photokina thats for sure...

Thank you again EspenB! I blogged  it here:
http://ironfilm.co.nz/confirmed-confidential-panasonic-gh5-prototype-exists-and-is-being-tested-by-users-outside-of-panasonic/

[IronFilm]

Never mind... that instagram pic is clearly the FZ2500 instead.

 

[Kisaha]

Jvc's LS300 is a super 35, native m4/3 camera. It is not rocket science, and JVC is very close to Panasonic, anyway. There are speedboosters already for that cam, also. A sensor like this, could have made the GH5 the ring to rule them all.

Panasonic have to realize that this is a video camera, with the form factor, and a little bit of a photo camera. Just the right count of megapixels for better low light capabilities would be a check mate.

It is too early for anything meaningful though, I don't see myself discussing X-Files theories for a camera that I am going to see, probably in a year.I just hope for Panasonic to take the right choices, until then.

 

[Orangenz]

8 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Discussion on Newsshooter 13 comments

Photokina 2016: We ask Panasonic all the questions about the GH5

Will ; a reply to Mark Ellsworth 4 days ago

""and a true 16:9 6K photo mode with no interpolation or computational trickery".

Pretty interesting post by Will on Newshooter. He might have sort of a answer on sensor size of the GH5. Food for thought..

He kind of broke the dream at the end there though. He must of made a mistake when contradicting his entire previous argument. The 6K photo mode is not 16:9. A reminder from the Panasonic Press Release: “6K PHOTO” is a high speed burst shooting function that cuts a still image out of a 4:3 or 3:2 video footage with approx.18-megapixel (Approx.6000 x 3000 effective pixel count) that 6K image manages. The name ‘6K PHOTO’ is tentative.

The word "cuts" implies a crop from the normal photo mode - hence 18MP is not full the sensor size. 

[sanveer]

2 hours ago, Orangenz said:

He kind of broke the dream at the end there though. He must of made a mistake when contradicting his entire previous argument. The 6K photo mode is not 16:9. A reminder from the Panasonic Press Release: “6K PHOTO” is a high speed burst shooting function that cuts a still image out of a 4:3 or 3:2 video footage with approx.18-megapixel (Approx.6000 x 3000 effective pixel count) that 6K image manages. The name ‘6K PHOTO’ is tentative.

The word "cuts" implies a crop from the normal photo mode - hence 18MP is not full the sensor size. 

Very likely. I have a feeling the Panaspnic GH5 and the Olympus OMD EM1 Mk II may have the same sensor, one geared towards Photos and one towards Video.