GH5 Prototype

[webrunner5]

5 hours ago, Orangenz said:

He kind of broke the dream at the end there though. He must of made a mistake when contradicting his entire previous argument. The 6K photo mode is not 16:9. A reminder from the Panasonic Press Release: “6K PHOTO” is a high speed burst shooting function that cuts a still image out of a 4:3 or 3:2 video footage with approx.18-megapixel (Approx.6000 x 3000 effective pixel count) that 6K image manages. The name ‘6K PHOTO’ is tentative.

The word "cuts" implies a crop from the normal photo mode - hence 18MP is not full the sensor size. 

I maybe wrong  but you have to have at least a 18.8 or so MP sensor to get 6000 x3000. So I don't know, only Panny knows I guess, and I am not sure they really know or they would have said what it was! I think they, Panny, had to say something now or people would have bought into others systems.

This is about the dumbest roll out of sorts I have ever heard from a company. I get the feeling they are grabbing for straws themselves or hoping for a miracle. I am pretty sure I am not going to wait for it. I am not looking for a camera in 8 months, hoping it ships in 10 months, and maybe it is not even what I want. What if it still sort of sucks in low light, really has no more DR etc.. We would have to wait for tests to prove all of that. That could be a year from now. I am not waiting long I can tell you that without a LOT more info... This could be a dream camera on the cheap, but right now it is vaporware.

[Cinegain]

The BMD Micro CC was marketed with global shutter... in the end... they couldn't deliver on that promise and pulled it from the (seemingly finalized) specs (which made me order it). I was rather bummed when I found it was going to ship without the feature, which goes to show I'd rather have them release specs that they know they'll do, rather than making a prediction as a hard statement and then hopefully manage to pull it off somehow. Also... Craft Cinema Camera...

But yeah, I do get that they had to say something at Photokina. I was expecting them to! We all want to know: is it in the making? When should we expect it to hit the market and what can it roughly do?

I do think it's going to be a significant step-up in the way the m43 crowd shoots video! Like the hacked GH2 and GH4 were! In between the GH4R and (paid) firmware upgrade... and the G7 and GX80... I think we're going to be in for a treat. But you've got to be realistic. The GH5 is going to be the most productive and allround video tool in the DSLR and mirrorless market and have the best bang for buck. Yet sensorwise... it's not going to rival fullframe. Then again, that's only logical. Light gathering ability for each pixel is just not the greatest. But you know... isn't that the case with actual movie cameras either? If you look at Blackmagic and Kinefinity for example... you're expected to light your scenes and manage. Shooting ISO6400 is just not something you would/could go and do. That doesn't make fullframe options less interesting, especially for the run-n-gun type who shoots a night scene with just the camera on little to no budget... because then you can't deny the benefits of its flexibility. You can put it in any lighting scenario and it will cope with the conditions (to a certain degree). If that's the most important thing to you, look no further and get one of the Sony A7 series cameras (with their own issues; really comes down to the game of: pick your poison). I think it will be another one and a half year perhaps (2017?) before we see the new tech (organic photoconductive film (OPF CMOS) sensor with global shutter) hitting the market. That you may rightfully call a 'gamechanger'. But we're not there yet. It's a step up, as said, with V-LOG L and an anamorphic mode as firmware upgrades... with the GX80 sensor performance and stabilization however... we've seen that we can expect the GH5 to be a significant up from the GH4. And that is just how you need to see it. Still gives you struggle for wide focal length lenses. Isn't magically going to see in the dark with no noise or create crazy shallow depth of field by itself. But it is great value for the money and it certainly will be a treat to use stand alone as well as rigged up.

Secretly I was hoping for something between the GH-line and the Varicam, because getting a cinema tool step up from the GH4 and end up between 2999~9999 you'd be looking at the Sony FS5/FS7 (or something older 2nd hand), Blackmagic URSA Mini/Production Cinema Camera, Canon C100/300/500, Kinefinity Terra, (2nd hand RED package perhaps). In other words... a lot of people learn with the GH-line and when it's time to step up, their native lenses are probably useless and they have to look at different brands. If I were Panasonic, I would want people to stay in my eco system (and keep their money coming my way), hence create something Kinefinity/Blackmagic style that keeps in mind users coming from a GH4. Something like a true successor to the AG-AF100 but adhering to the modern standards and expections as well as being more compact and affordable. I mean, at around 3000 USD you buy a body only A7SII or A7RII. Can you imagine the things Panasonic would give you for that kind of money?! Something like JVC did (somewhat out of the blue) with the LS300... but done the Panasonic way with the GH heritage. Unfortunately the GH5 won't be that. I thought... ok, the G80 is now roughly the ultimate hybrid camera for stills and video. Maybe they make the GH5 really premium and focussed on video like that. But from what it seems, this is another ultimate hybrid camera... instead of what I was hoping, something in between the GH-line and Varicam (or as I've called it before 'the VC5' (a more serious cinelike approach to the stills hybrid GH5)). Doesn't make me less excited for the GH5 though. Might tick all the boxes anyways (with features that are now well implemented, ditching the YAGH-brick for a more viable solution and still being nice to use as-is, as well as being discrete on the streets and affordable to purchase).

[mrjonkane]

2 hours ago, Cinegain said:

... a lot of people learn with the GH-line and when it's time to step up, their native lenses are probably useless and they have to look at different brands. If I were Panasonic, I would want people to stay in my eco system (and keep their money coming my way), hence create something Kinefinity/Blackmagic style that keeps in mind users coming from a GH4.

That sums up exactly where I'm at @Cinegain ... wanting to step up to something in between a GH4/5 and an Alexa/Ursa/Terra that shoots raw 4K+ at high frame rates and I would think Panasonic if anyone could fill that gap perfectly. More expensive alternative I guess is to have GH5 for smaller jobs and get a Kinefinity Terra, perhaps they know for many that will still be the case and they're not losing customers anyway.

By the way here's an interesting comment from Veydra on why they stopped their anamorphic lens project... does that point to a multi aspect sensor on the GH5?

[webrunner5]

Nice post Cinegain! Yeah I too was hoping for a better form factor on the GH5. Surely they know not many still photo people buy GH cameras?? So why keep it the same way! I would pay more for a better body, I think lot of us would. Maybe not 3 grand, but 2 thousand ish sure. For 1900 bucks surely you can make a better form factor.

This video stuff is taking off like a rocket right now. And Panny has been a leader for the lower end. Seems to me other than the JVC LS300 you stated, nothing really exciting is there. Panny listen up and fill that void LoL! But I guess this stuff is changing so fast they have no clue which way to go. The GH series has been a cash cow for them. Hard to give it up I guess.

[Fredrik Lyhne]

@Cinegain I see what you are saying and I agree that Panasonic should have a camera that sits over the GH-line. Only problem with that is I think it have to be S35 sensor and they don't have any lenses for that, yet. They could off course do what JVC did though. It seems to me that Panasonic is doing a major overhaul with their cameras from the bottom the top. First it was better low light (G7), then the stabilization (GX85), then the (G80) with a better ergonomics (battery grip, mic jac, dual IS 2 etc) and finally the GH5 which is going to amazing no matter what they do with it. 4K 60p, IBIS, probably at least 120p 1080, 10 bit 4:2:2, V-Log etc. They have to compete with Oly as well now so I don't think there will be no holding back this time. It sounds like a camera I could have for years to come. Panny are really "fixing" all the things people have complained about. 

Anyways, it could very well be that they are releasing a camera above the GH line if they see a market for it. That would be amazing but not for me at the moment. I think the GH-series is the perfect compromise as hybrid shooter and I really miss the ergonomics of the GH4 which I replaced with the GX85 waiting for the GH5. 

Also the new Leica zooms look nice. Will probably trade in my 12-35mm and 35-100mm for the 8-18mm and 12-60mm. I really like the look of the Pana Leica's and my kit next year will probably be the GH5 with PL 15mm, 25mm, 42,5mm and the two zooms, and maybe the 12mm and 50-200mm somewhere down the line. 

[marcuswolschon]

Then length of these newsletters Leica zooms is great but the aperture would be a massive step down from 2.8 on these long end.

[Fredrik Lyhne]

1 hour ago, marcuswolschon said:

Then length of these newsletters Leica zooms is great but the aperture would be a massive step down from 2.8 on these long end.

Agreed. But that is something I'm willing to trade in for the more versatile focal lenghts and the "Pana Leica" look. I usually use the X zooms in controlled environments and primes otherwise so f/4.0 on the long end is workable for me. With the 12mm, 15mm, 25mm and 42,5mm I'm pretty much covered for lowlight and all my lenses will be a little bit easier to match in post even than a mix of everything. 

I also really like the new modern design of the GH5 and can't wait to put in a preorder, hopefully in a kit with the 12-60mm! 

[marcuswolschon]

I'll preorder the GH5 if and only if it has been no 30min limit and V-Log is included.

[Emanuel]

58 minutes ago, marcuswolschon said:

I'll preorder the GH5 if and only if it has been no 30min limit and V-Log is included.

So, if they will add 100 bucks to the premium, you'll say NO to 10-bit 4:2:2 and 4K/60p for $1,500 or so because $1,600 would be too much, isn't it? ;-)

[marcuswolschon]

8 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

So, if they will add 100 bucks to the premium, you'll say NO to 10-bit 4:2:2 and 4K/60p for $1,500 or so because $1,600 would be too much, isn't it? ;-)

No, if they have a 30min limit I'll wait until they release a GH5R or skip the "5" generation.

If they don't include V-Log, I'll wait until they got pressured into including it right away.

[Emanuel]

7 minutes ago, marcuswolschon said:

No, if they have a 30min limit I'll wait until they release a GH5R or skip the "5" generation.

If they don't include V-Log, I'll wait until they got pressured into including it right away.

Right. Be free to wait. Who knows they will be susceptible to your claim, yeah, who knows?

V-Log makes more sense addressed to 10-bit, anyways.

[Ivanhurba]

5 minutes ago, marcuswolschon said:

No, if they have a 30min limit I'll wait until they release a GH5R or skip the "5" generation.

If they don't include V-Log, I'll wait until they got pressured into including it right away.

By the time they release the GH5R who knows what the rest of the camera manufacturers would have presented. They should sell the GH5 without the nonsense penny pincher EU tax or cope up with it and let customers have it. At least sell the Vlog with the unlocking door as a light hack or whatever. I mean, phones don't have that limit, right?

[Rinad Amir]

2 hours ago, marcuswolschon said:

No, if they have a 30min limit I'll wait until they release a GH5R or skip the "5" generation.

If they don't include V-Log, I'll wait until they got pressured into including it right away.

? 

[Chrad]

22 hours ago, mrjonkane said:

By the way here's an interesting comment from Veydra on why they stopped their anamorphic lens project... does that point to a multi aspect sensor on the GH5?

I don't think so. It probably just means less crop.

[Cinegain]

It means it's now APS-C. !

[Emanuel]

Hey Luke, now your "like" button has puzzled me. What the hell APS-C is doing right there? And the whole 4/3" format glass thing?!

Ain't you under NDA on GH5 development??

Will the new glass add-ons be S35??!

[sanveer]

On 25/09/2016 at 3:09 AM, mrjonkane said:

That sums up exactly where I'm at @Cinegain ... wanting to step up to something in between a GH4/5 and an Alexa/Ursa/Terra that shoots raw 4K+ at high frame rates and I would think Panasonic if anyone could fill that gap perfectly. More expensive alternative I guess is to have GH5 for smaller jobs and get a Kinefinity Terra, perhaps they know for many that will still be the case and they're not losing customers anyway.

By the way here's an interesting comment from Veydra on why they stopped their anamorphic lens project... does that point to a multi aspect sensor on the GH5?

Smaller or bigger area. I wonder if a multi-aspect ratio sensor (like the 1.86x one on the GH2) would be able to do IBIS? I am guessing that it may, but with lesser stabilisation  (unless it's a 20MP sensor, the same new one that Olympus will get, and ISIS may actually be sensor shift + Electronic Stabilisation).

Also does the newer anamorphic sensor crop allow it for being even wider now?

I am guessing Panasonic underplayed the talents of the GH5. It's looking like it will be quite a monster. 

[TheRenaissanceMan]

If it required redesigning the lenses, the GH5 must have a larger capture area for anamorphic. Full sensor area maybe? That'd be damn impressive.

[Xavier Plagaro Mussard]

We need an "Adobe DNG" kind of lens mount. The GH5 is more limited by the m43 sensor than by marketing, if they keep the m43 sensor. That Veydra post could hint to great things!

[Emanuel]

Maybe that's nothing related to the sensor size, 4/3" anyway. But, the way they will implement the anamorphic in-camera. Intriguing and promising indeed.