Are bridge cameras the perfect solution for run & gun ?

[kidzrevil]

I recently picked up a Sony RX10ii as an alternative to the Canon XC10 and I am in love. I hate using zoom lenses and the idea of a built in lens was off putting but in practice it proved to be very versatile especially with the optical stabilization. This made me wonder how come manufacturers have not consider making high end bridge cameras. My dream camera would be like the RX10 or Canon XC10 with a 35-85mm f1.4 equivalent lens with IBIS,4K & 1080p 120 all with full pixel readout. The sensor size would either be super 16mm or super 35mm. Has anyone else shot with these type of cameras and would like to see more like them for filmmaking ?

 

[wolf33d]

No

[Mat Mayer]

Generally people around here think the RX10II is not that good and the XC10 is more split with some loving it. I am run and gun and 100% happy I went with Panasonic and interchangeable lenses (my 3 main lenses are tiny). I was about to buy the RX10ii untill Sony screwed up their specs and told me it only filmed 5 mins 4K. That was a blessing in disguise as I get much better quality video from Panasonics. Sure it is a pain changing lenses in certain situations but you get to buy loads of cool vintage lenses. I guess it depends on what zoom you need Vs image quality, at least for the RX10. Plus the smaller sensor gives a flatter look and I used to get more macro blocking off that sensor on the RX100ii. That said- you did a great job in the video above.

[dafreaking]

I think they would be even better if they didn't have 20+ megapixel 1" sensors. The RX10 lens is probably the perfect lens for run and gun. Hell if the FZ1000/2000 was clean till ISO 6400 it would be the perfect tun and gun camera for me. Basically take the best stuff from the FZ2000 and RX10 II and at $1500 you have the best all purpose video camera.

[Mat Mayer]

Well the next Panasonic FZ will record 4K at 200 Mbps, which is double the current rate. Might make a big difference. The XC10 records at 300 I think, so perhaps that is the key with the smaller sensors, as many love the XC10 video.

[Cinegain]

I've enjoyed shooting with my Fujifilm S8000fd and Canon SX1 IS a lot. The things I didn't like... fuzzy manual focus, sucky in lowlight and lens usually doesn't start that wide. Other than that... apart from that 1" sensor, that new Pana FZ2500 might cover all your basic needs. Too bad they didn't stick to the FZ200-formula of having a constant f/2.8 aperture lens. I mean, zooming in to 560mm equiv or something is cool too, but I'd happily ditch some range for better light gathering ability. I think bridges are super flexible though. I usually take one when I travel and expect to see different environments and shoot during daylight mostly. For cityscapes I prefer either something like the LX100 or a interchangeable one with a few neat lenses. Don't need that much range in the city. Do appreciate the better lowlight handling there and adding a bit character to shots with some purposely included bokeh. Also... with sensors that small you also going to get contrasty images with highlights blown out and shadows crushed. They do give you a lot of detail though. I was somewhat amazed by the panoramic capability of the FZ1000. You could see every leaf in every tree.

[DPC]

Google Ruslan Pelykh.

I have a Sony RX10 II which I use along with an A7R II. It has limits, mainly do to with Sony's menu and the small sensor. Deployment somewhat slow.Considerable advantages too: shared profiles with other Sony cameras, making matching easy; takes the same XLR attachment; good range fast zoom. (Most of) this was done with the RX10 II over the summer, testing out some of its features.

 

[kidzrevil]

55 minutes ago, Mat Mayer said:

Generally people around here think the RX10II is not that good and the XC10 is more split with some loving it. I am run and gun and 100% happy I went with Panasonic and interchangeable lenses (my 3 main lenses are tiny). I was about to buy the RX10ii untill Sony screwed up their specs and told me it only filmed 5 mins 4K. That was a blessing in disguise as I get much better quality video from Panasonics. Sure it is a pain changing lenses in certain situations but you get to buy loads of cool vintage lenses. I guess it depends on what zoom you need Vs image quality, at least for the RX10. Plus the smaller sensor gives a flatter look and I used to get more macro blocking off that sensor on the RX100ii. That said- you did a great job in the video above.

yeah people really REALLY hate the RX10ii lol. I was going to sell it till I started playing with it more and it became my go to camera for events and run & gun situations. For one I don't shoot in SLOG...I get way better results with the neutral creative style with little to no noise under 800. I am going to throw a tiffen ultra contrast filter to boost the deep shadows that are prone to macro blocking and noise..that should solve the problem.

@Cinegain im gonna look into that Panasonic camera you mentioned, they've been on a roll lately

[Philip Lipetz]

49 minutes ago, Mat Mayer said:

Well the next Panasonic FZ will record 4K at 200 Mbps, which is double the current rate. Might make a big difference. The XC10 records at 300 I think, so perhaps that is the key with the smaller sensors, as many love the XC10 video.

Only HD is at 200 Mbps, 4k is only 100 Mbps

[Davee]

Does anybody know which rx100 IV or rx10 II have better quality lens? 

[Mat Mayer]

1 hour ago, Philip Lipetz said:

Only HD is at 200 Mbps, 4k is only 100 Mbps

Thats a shame. All these fragmented reports about specs means half of them end up not being what we thought. The g80 was getting 422 earlier, now it is same old 420, plus everyone thought the GH5 was getting 6K, but it turns out that is just a photo mode (I think- not been keeping up with that one).

Nice to hear the RX10ii is working well for someone. I really wanted to love that camera and buy it, but hate the ergonomcs and the reviews don't compare to a GH4 or G7 for my type of video.

[mercer]

4 hours ago, Philip Lipetz said:

Only HD is at 200 Mbps, 4k is only 100 Mbps

200mbps 1080p... I think I like the camera even better now. 

[SR]

I'm considering getting the RX10II as a supplement to my documentary work, especially tele shots. I'd rather carry a small camera than a bigass lens to go with the full-frame/crop camera. Works fine as B-camera too.

[kidzrevil]

@SR exactly why I picked it up ! Small, discreet, great lens and great image quality. People get hung up on the fact that its a small sensor and its super 16mm. Idc it worked just fine for my needs as you can see in the video I posted

[dafreaking]

12 hours ago, Cinegain said:

I've enjoyed shooting with my Fujifilm S8000fd and Canon SX1 IS a lot. The things I didn't like... fuzzy manual focus, sucky in lowlight and lens usually doesn't start that wide. Other than that... apart from that 1" sensor, that new Pana FZ2500 might cover all your basic needs. Too bad they didn't stick to the FZ200-formula of having a constant f/2.8 aperture lens. I mean, zooming in to 560mm equiv or something is cool too, but I'd happily ditch some range for better light gathering ability. I think bridges are super flexible though. I usually take one when I travel and expect to see different environments and shoot during daylight mostly. For cityscapes I prefer either something like the LX100 or a interchangeable one with a few neat lenses. Don't need that much range in the city. Do appreciate the better lowlight handling there and adding a bit character to shots with some purposely included bokeh. Also... with sensors that small you also going to get contrasty images with highlights blown out and shadows crushed. They do give you a lot of detail though. I was somewhat amazed by the panoramic capability of the FZ1000. You could see every leaf in every tree.

The FZ200 has a much smaller sensor = easier to make a constant 2.8 zoom

[Cinegain]

2 hours ago, dafreaking said:

The FZ200 has a much smaller sensor = easier to make a constant 2.8 zoom

Yes, but it's still how the 'FZ'-philosophy started and why I'd say I'd personally rather make do with 12x instead of 20x zoom for example if that would mean constant f/2.8. That's how the RX10 started out doing it as well (8.3x @ f/2.8; although in meanwhile they're at 25x f/2.4-4 too, guess my wishes don't reflect most of the market, 'cause else they'd be stopping this zoom race and jacking up those numbers).

[JurijTurnsek]

RX10III is not a direct successor, but rather an alternative with the longer reach. What Sony should do is make a 12mpx 1" 24-200m f2.8 RX10IV and focus on the fiddly controls etc.

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, JurijTurnsek said:

What Sony should do is make a 12mpx 1" 24-200m f2.8 RX10IV and focus on the fiddly controls etc.

Or even a 1" 24-120 f/2!! Happily give up a little reach in exchange for a stop more light. 

[Ivanhurba]

I shoot with the RX10II and don't have any regrets, it's one of my best gear decisions ever. It covers any M43 lenses in a compact powerzoom form over f4, so that makes most of them until now; has 5axis stabilization; gives Slog to match his bigger brothers in a vast different range of prices mostly well, not like Canon; can record to SD cards 4k footage, accepts the XLR-K2M adapter, can be hacked to remove the time limit and doesn't overheat. All in all I think it's Sony's best camera right now.

The only PITA is the lack of a touchscreen, and that's the reason the G80 or the OM-D E-M1 MKII are looking so interesting right now, but weddings pay my butter so I have time to hold my GAS and wait for what Sony presents at CES and see if finally they add a touchscreen to the a7 line. My only reason to go FF is that brides and grooms in Slovakia and Spain tend to dress in ugly as hell rooms and to be able to have background separation in full body and 3/4 portraits and videos is a godsend. For the rest M43 and 1 inch sensors are all love and bridges can cover 60% or even 70% of a shoot very well. My 2 cents of course.

[mercer]

18 hours ago, kidzrevil said:

I recently picked up a Sony RX10ii as an alternative to the Canon XC10 and I am in love. I hate using zoom lenses and the idea of a built in lens was off putting but in practice it proved to be very versatile especially with the optical stabilization. This made me wonder how come manufacturers have not consider making high end bridge cameras. My dream camera would be like the RX10 or Canon XC10 with a 35-85mm f1.4 equivalent lens with IBIS,4K & 1080p 120 all with full pixel readout. The sensor size would either be super 16mm or super 35mm. Has anyone else shot with these type of cameras and would like to see more like them for filmmaking ?

 

Great cut at the end of that video! Just when I realize her shirt is--

Cut to Kidzrevil graphic.