1D X MKII good "enough" ?

[adamoe]

I'd love some input here. 

I have a 5D MK III, but i want 4K dammit. the "goal" would be 4K 60 fps, which there's only 2 affordable cameras that offer - the 1D X 2, and the BlackMagic Ursa Mini.. or the C300 MKII, but wouldn't call $13000 affordable really. 

I use my camera 75% for video, but i have a leica M240 for shoots, however I like the flexible and speed of autofocus for shoots which the leica doesn't offer, which is the main reason I'm looking at the 1Dx2 

now, my question is - what camera should I get as the "upgrade" for my 5D3 for "mainly" video purposes? 

option 1)

1DX2, - concern - no 4K External Recording (i use a BlackMagic Video Assist with my 5D3 and get glorious ProResHQ footage that swoops into resolve nicely. this I cant do with the 1Dx2

second concern is that regular HD looks like crap on the 1DX2 (supposedly - thats what everyone says.. oh, and no XLR input, which I can live with .. i have a recorder.. 

but does the footage you get on the camera have enough depth on its own  for me to do nice color corrections in resolve? I'm a little worried about this because my 5D3, without the External video recorder is pretty bad when it comes to color correcting in Resolve. - also - the video files are slow and needs to be converted to ProResHQ before Editing. 

everyone also seems to be annoyed by the lack of Color Profiles, namely Canon CLog, how easy is it to find a good alternative? 

option 2) 

BlackMagic URSA Mini 4.6 - 

BlackMagic let me borrow one of these for a month, and it's really a good camera - but its ONLY video obviously, missing the still camera function :-/ 

Option 3) Sony A7S - everyone just seem to love this, but i know nothing about it - except it doesn't offer 4K60fps 

option 4) ... C300 Mk2.. not really an option as it's out of my budget by about 5K, lol, but thought i'd mention it.. is it 5K better than the 1dx2? .. and if I were to spent 14K, i would probably get a Red Raven + the works which is also, exactly 14K.. 

Option 5) ... 1Dc - does anyone buy that still? it's about 8K on B&H now. 

Option 6) - wait for the C100 MK3 - its supposed to have 4K lol.

I should mention that I use the camera mainly for interview style, long form (30 minutes plus) shoots (beauty, makeup, fashion) - which means the 30 minute limit on the 1DX is annoying, but not a deal breaker - but when you color correct makeup, you need some color depth.

love to hear your ideas

thanks

Adam

 

 

 

[jcs]

Hobby or for profit? If for profit and you need 4K, C300 II is a great option if you can borrow and pay off quickly. I use the C300 II and don't currently use 4K as we're shooting a lot of content and most consumers don't even have a way to view 4K material. So the C100 II is a great camera if you want to shoot right now, get things done quickly, along with tiny files and very high quality 1080p. RED cameras are a totally different experience and use case vs. a Canon Cx00 (number one, no PDAF).

I use the 1DX II only for short interviews and initially 4K60p (until I switched everything over to 1080p to speed up production). Since the 1DX II 1080p isn't very good, 4K24p must be used and downscaled to 1080p in post. This looks great however the files are huge. The C100 II is a much better choice for those on a budget looking for a good reliable all around performer. For long form 30min plus- C100 II all the way. You don't need 4K.

[DBounce]

2 hours ago, adamoe said:

I'd love some input here. 

I have a 5D MK III, but i want 4K dammit. the "goal" would be 4K 60 fps, which there's only 2 affordable cameras that offer - the 1D X 2, and the BlackMagic Ursa Mini.. or the C300 MKII, but wouldn't call $13000 affordable really. 

I use my camera 75% for video, but i have a leica M240 for shoots, however I like the flexible and speed of autofocus for shoots which the leica doesn't offer, which is the main reason I'm looking at the 1Dx2 

now, my question is - what camera should I get as the "upgrade" for my 5D3 for "mainly" video purposes? 

option 1)

1DX2, - concern - no 4K External Recording (i use a BlackMagic Video Assist with my 5D3 and get glorious ProResHQ footage that swoops into resolve nicely. this I cant do with the 1Dx2

second concern is that regular HD looks like crap on the 1DX2 (supposedly - thats what everyone says.. oh, and no XLR input, which I can live with .. i have a recorder.. 

but does the footage you get on the camera have enough depth on its own  for me to do nice color corrections in resolve? I'm a little worried about this because my 5D3, without the External video recorder is pretty bad when it comes to color correcting in Resolve. - also - the video files are slow and needs to be converted to ProResHQ before Editing. 

everyone also seems to be annoyed by the lack of Color Profiles, namely Canon CLog, how easy is it to find a good alternative? 

option 2) 

BlackMagic URSA Mini 4.6 - 

BlackMagic let me borrow one of these for a month, and it's really a good camera - but its ONLY video obviously, missing the still camera function :-/ 

Option 3) Sony A7S - everyone just seem to love this, but i know nothing about it - except it doesn't offer 4K60fps 

option 4) ... C300 Mk2.. not really an option as it's out of my budget by about 5K, lol, but thought i'd mention it.. is it 5K better than the 1dx2? .. and if I were to spent 14K, i would probably get a Red Raven + the works which is also, exactly 14K.. 

Option 5) ... 1Dc - does anyone buy that still? it's about 8K on B&H now. 

Option 6) - wait for the C100 MK3 - its supposed to have 4K lol.

I should mention that I use the camera mainly for interview style, long form (30 minutes plus) shoots (beauty, makeup, fashion) - which means the 30 minute limit on the 1DX is annoying, but not a deal breaker - but when you color correct makeup, you need some color depth.

love to hear your ideas

thanks

Adam

 

 

 

 It saw enough 4k use during the Olympics. So I would say it's probably good enough. 

[adamoe]

Thanks for the replies.

the camera is used for profit. 

long story short, my wife and I have a YouTube based business and create makeup videos and one of the main benefits from shooting 4K is that I can shoot wide and punch in for closeup "application" shots, and being able to shoot 4K at 60fps, I can punch in 150% and slow down the makeup application process which gives the video's a whole other feel. 

I do really like the C300, but 14K really is a little more than I was hoping to spend.

it's a tough choice.. I definitely think it has to shoot 4K, but i can manage without the 60fps if I have to.  

the huge file sizes at 4K60 is a bit of an issue, but I usually only keep about 1 hour of raw footage at the time, and once a video is done I just get rid of the originals so it's only a matter of maybe 3-400gb of footage i'll have at any time. 

wish canon had announced the C100 III but looks like that won't be till next year now. 

[Luke Mason]

1DC is about $4K on BH

[jcs]

For makeup videos, skintone is very important.  The Sony A7S II or A7R II (perhaps better skintones?) along with a Canon still camera to shoot reference stills for color grading could work if you require 4K on a budget. If you can manage the file sizes and your NLE can handle the 1DX II 4K files (such as FCXP, PP CC sometimes can, sometimes can't, each release has a variety of bugs as do the NVidia drivers) it will produce great skintones and decent 4K (but not true, full resolution 4K- it's somewhat soft/low-detail 4K. You'll see this if you want to punch in to 100% (1:1 pixels) on a 1080p sequence).

For well-lit studio shots, the XC10/XC15 could also be a great 4K24p option with smaller 4K files (305/205Mbps) using a more modern codec (XFAVC) vs. MJPG on the 1DX II (~478Mbps).

[adamoe]

4K60 is 478Mbps? woah, thats a lot, almost 800GB/half hour. are there no format/ codec options with the 1DX2 to lower this? - I work on one of the new 5K Display iMacs and I didn't have problems editing the 4K60 ProRes footage from the BlackMagic camera.

with the BlackMagic Ursa 4.6K - I shot a minute of each format, and ended up having to record at ProResLT to be able to record half an hour - but luckily the quality was still plenty of good to be able to correct the skin tones in Resolve after. afterwards I did some tests where I purposely 

I looked at the new XC15, and i love everything about it except the lens since I have a nice collection of Canon L's, not to mention it's a f5.6, that's just not very good. I love the XLR input on it though, it has good mbps and it has nice format options.. but that lens :-/

the A7S is not a bad option, i just feel weird about buying a Sony mirrorless DSLR because I've been using Canon for about 15 years and I love shooting Canon. 

also, hows the Autofocus on the A7S compared to say the 1dX2 on video?

decisions decisions

 

 

[jcs]

478Mbps is 3587MB/min = 3587*8/60Mbps for 24p. 4K60 is 5733MB/min = 5733*8/60 = 764Mbps for 4K60. 17 Minutes at 4K24 and 10 minutes at 4K60 per 64GB card. From the 1DX II manual, page 319.

The PDAF autofocus on the 1DX II and Canon Cx00 cameras are currently unmatched in the market for large sensor cameras (Sony is catching up). The A7R II's AF is not bad, however the A7S II AF is too slow and not accurate enough to be used without also actively helping with manual focus and/or half pressing the shutter button while recording (OK for live events, not narrative etc.).

If you can transcode the 1DX II files on ingest, treating them like RAW, etc., then the long term file size isn't an issue (just more time/work, but not too bad if you automate it). To get 4K files down to 100 to ~300Mbps and still look good you'll need to transcode to H.264 IPB, which NLEs nowadays play like butter (200MBps IPB might be the sweet spot. For low motion 100Mbps should be fine (same as A7x, GH4 4K)).

For your business requirement of beauty/makeup in the studio, F5.6 or higher is perfect since the scene will be well lit and shallow DOF can be an issue (and you'll have complete control over what's in the background).

[Matthew19]

Why dont you "punch in" as you're shooting and switch to a 100mm macro lens. Not being a smart ass, but you could save some change and get a 1DC and shoot the 60FPS 1080p, or the standard 4k. honestly 4K up close on a female face is going to show a ton of detail in an unflattering way. A cinematographer would be softening the image with mist filters. 

[adamoe]

Jsc - thanks for referencing the manual. That's not too bad then, 10 min/64gb, manageable if you run it through resolve on ingest. That's what I normally do anyway, straight into resolve, color correct and spit out a color corrected ProRes HQ which I then edit in premiere. My other issue with the 1dx is the 1.3x crop on 4K video. I could live with that as I'm never zoomed out all the way when I shoot with my 24-70 f2.8 which is my normal go to lens. As for the new XC15 - ur right normally I try to shoot everything in the studio at f5.6 to keep the whole face in focus, but it's nice to have the option to open it up more. Maybe I should buy that camera locally somewhere so I can return it and try It out.

 

Matt -

i need both full torso shots and close up shots of the face for all videos, and this might sound crazy, but I like to let whoever we're recording be alone in the studio so they can be more natural when talking into the camera, give them a list of points to hit and do it with no one around as if they're talking into the mirror at home, and by shooting 4K zoomed out, I can achieve both by just punching in in post. 

And as for the softening - I usually do a little post skin softening in resolve but maybe I'll look into a filter, not a bad idea, however I like doing it in post so I can key just the face and leave the hair super sharp.

thanks for the suggestions! 

[Jimmy]

Sony FS7 seems like an option here (maybe F5?). I would avoid the cheaper Sony's though... poor skintones.